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#129589 - 10/04/11 09:45 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: GHinCH]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

Just read it -- back to the question: In the early sixties the Chantays used an electric piano.

Here it is on the Lawrence Welk show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo

Guido




Wurly 100, just like Ray.

Unfortunately, they didn't actually PLAY it in that "performance" -- what you hear is the studio recording, likely the record. That was common for TV presentation due to the perceived "problems" the old school TV audio engineers had with electrically amplified musics back then.

As with the acceptance of something new among musicians and audiences, new technologies often must wait for a new generation in order to ultimately be able to properly exploit them. I remember when three less-than-one-hundred-watts-each combo amplifiers was considered to be, "TOO LOUD" by a generation that loved to listen to an all-acoustic bigband easily generate twice as much in the way of SPLs.

At that point, prejudice becomes hopelessly entangled with perception, as it always does. The prime reason that I'm always saying that there is really no worse witness than the so-called eyewitness...

At the beginning of the 50's, Lionel Hampton started using the then-new fender Precision Bass in his bigband. Well, it really wasn't Lionel's first choice, but Wes Montgomery's brother happened along to fill the Bass slot and being a Guitar Player, took advantage of the real reason that Leo and the boys back at Fender developed the P-bass in the first place -- because a guitar player who happened to play with The Texas Playboys off and on told Leo Fender that if such an instrument were readily available that he, as a guitar player, could get more gigs by being able to double on bass. That player had apparently seen the earlier Rickenbacker solid body bass, and wanted one like it. Leo named it the "Precision" bass because it incorporated FRETS on the neck, which implied a preciase note aelection with less need for things like the Simandl fingering of the fretless acoustic bass violin.

Anyway, Lionel went on tour with that Fender Bass in the lineup instead of the "standard" upright acoustic bass, leading to the typical kind of questioning, denouncement and overall stupid writings of critics that always goes along with anything new or different.

One of the jazz critic writes of that era, Downbeat magazine or maybe Metronome, I forget, did review of the band with this new-fangled "electrical bass" instrument and wrote that it was able to play a full octave lower than the acoustic bass fiddle. He was dead wrong, of course, but forgiven IMO, as nobody in the jazz world had ever heard such clear sinewave bass notes before, along with the sustain that was hitherto a matter of chance.

And then there was a veritable plethora of hatred unleashed upon the use of electric bass in what these so-called "OPEN-MINDED" jazz musicians perceived to be "correct". Again it took the next generation to fully grasp the implications of that new technology, fuller sound, less cost at purchase, easier to learn to play, lighter in weight, smaller in size, important when considering portage problems -- and suddenly the upright acoustic string bass fiddle became the rarity with a bigband. For a time. Then it enjoyed a resurgence, of course. Ronny Reagan's Law applies there as well. If it moves, Tax it, if it continues to move, Regulate it and if it stops moving, Subsidize it. <g>




--Mac
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#129590 - 10/04/11 03:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
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Quote:



And then there was a veritable plethora of hatred unleashed upon the use of electric bass in what these so-called "OPEN-MINDED" jazz musicians perceived to be "correct". Again it took the next generation to fully grasp the implications of that new technology, fuller sound, less cost at purchase, easier to learn to play, lighter in weight, smaller in size, important when considering portage problems -- and suddenly the upright acoustic string bass fiddle became the rarity with a bigband. For a time. Then it enjoyed a resurgence, of course. Ronny Reagan's Law applies there as well. If it moves, Tax it, if it continues to move, Regulate it and if it stops moving, Subsidize it. <g>


--Mac




I shared that same sentiment back a page or two; except for the Reaganomics part of it - but tagging onto that thought: how cool is it that the latest generation of upright players will likely get their inspiration from a woman - that being Esperanza Spalding, of course.

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#129591 - 10/04/11 04:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: rockstar_not]
Mac Offline
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Spalding be bad, bad, bad bass player a'right.

Would like to see if there could ever be a meeting of Esperanza on bass, Terri Lyne Carrington on drums and Diana Krall on piano and vocals some day...

If not hip to to Terri Lyne Carrington, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_exMEDF6ukg


--Mac
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#129592 - 10/04/11 05:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: Mac]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
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Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I think if Diana plays Elvis gets to sit in. He's got some good teaching from what should be a good source. I think many would be surprised to see how much music education many of the current people have under their belts.
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#129593 - 10/04/11 08:12 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: John Conley]
rockstar_not Offline
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Posts: 7256
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Mac, probably going way off topic, but I had to follow through some other vids of Carrington - Interesting to see in this one http://www.youtube.com/user/terrilyncarrington#p/a/u/1/JdD3Bqr8e78 how she switches grip on her left hand stick and how she really uses the stick tip as a damper - never seen it that obvious before. Man I wish I could play drums.....

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#129594 - 10/04/11 09:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: rockstar_not]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
And on topic, I had a Wurly piano, black plastic with screw on chrome legs. I think it had a volume and another knob that did a feedback thing. I bought it and carted it to a house in a bush camp I worked in for 6 years. 500 guys in a bunch of bunkhouses, the staff in ranch style houses, and at the end over looking a falls on the White Otter River I had a 3 bedroom house, complete with visiting bears. One day, while playing at the wurly, the youngest boy comes in and says, "Dad there's a 30 foot bear at the back door...", I said, "sure son," and kept playing. I hear a noise and go look and a bear is at the door, paw through the screen. Used an old 303 Enfield and the bear was dispatched. I had already hit it with a paint marker for bothering the camp and had permission to shoot.

You never want to hear the noise made by a dying bear, shot right in the heart, broken leg, turned around for about 10 seconds crying, and dropped. I got her in the back of the pickup and was going to take her to the taxidermist, but about 1/2 hour later there is a yearling cub standing beside her in the truck. The guy got a 2 for that day.

That piano played in a country band or 3, all the local bands were country. I did a celtic set one time and was told to get back to country.

Johnny Cash, Johnny Paycheck and a whole bunch of french canadian artists you'd never know.

Lots of memories in that old piano.

There were 2 mines there, and if you dropped it down the shafts you'd get an a flat minor.
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#129595 - 10/05/11 10:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: John Conley]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
John,

My dad bought a WWII surplus British .303 Enfield that had been converted to carbine config for use by the British and Canadian Pacific Theater outfits as a jungle carbine.

They shortened tha barrel and then added a funnel-shaped tip that they labeled a "flash suppressor" at the end.

Killed many a Pennsylvania whitetail with that doggone thing, alas no bear, but it was a veritable flame-thrower when stoked with full loads. The barrel trim to carbine length was just too short to allow all the powder to burn.

First deer I ever hit with it, Pop always claimed that I really missed but the poor thing died of fright due to the long tongue of flame...

Later built a few modernized sport rifles based on the Royal Enfield. Funny thing about them was that they all seemed to stay more accurate with less cleaning. Those I built from Mauser actions were exactly the opposite temperament.

Back home in Pennsyvania and West Virginia, we typiocally had more than one miner go at a time, you were more likely to hear about severn flat five and worse. Like the flat minor diminished seven.


--Mac
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#129596 - 10/05/11 11:30 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: Mac]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
You used to be able to buy a 303 army surplus rifle for 25 bucks and a buck a box for ammo.

Now you have to have your wife say it's ok and yes that's you, pass a 3 day course, apply for a permit and wait 6 months.

And then go in the lottery for a moose/bear tag.

They will probably beg you to go deer hunting, they are hurting the ethanol production big time. And the insurance costs when they crash into your mini cause it almost looks like a whitetail...lol. Stupid bucks are getting ready as we speak.

I'm going grouse hunting this fall, just waiting for a call the leaves are down up at the cabin. Couple more weeks.
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#129597 - 10/05/11 01:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: John Conley]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7256
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I played a screw-on chrome leg Wurly for 4 years (well it was one of several that our choir had purchased from a local school music program kept on a 4014 GMC bus in the luggage hold). Kind of heavy but not not so bad that you couldn't haul it in/out at gigs. I don't know the model. I can say that I didn't think it was cool at the time from a sound standpoint. This was in the 80's when the thin clank of the DX-7 EP sound was THE electric piano sound in pop music.

Wish I had one of those Wurly's now! Choir probably gave them away - though I know the director of that choir now and I'm gonna have to check (note to self).

I played a suitcase Rhodes as the sort of 'mascot' in our pick-up jazz band in college. I saw 'mascot' because I didn't have the chops nor the knowledge of the other cats in the band but they wanted keys for 'Black Magic Woman' and the school let us use the suitcase Rhodes. I could read chord charts, so I was in. Soprano sax player in that band that could BLOW! Gotta check with a friend to see if he remembers his name.

No bear shooting stories while playing keys here.

Sound-wise, the Mr. Ray's plugins from GSi sound VERY much like old Rhodes and Wurly's - so much so that I don't miss the real deal all that much.

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#129598 - 10/05/11 05:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: rockstar_not]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Black lid, screw-on chrome legs, solid state, two 6X9 car radio speakers, that's a Wurly model 200.
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#129599 - 10/07/11 10:30 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: Keith from Oz]
rubberball103 Offline
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Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 297
Loc: NW corner of S. Nowhere
Besides the size issues of the early pianos and organs not a lot of people knew how to play them, at least in RnR style. Piano lessons they gave kids were useless for RnR. You can play guitar your whole life and never know a B from a Ab but piano/keyboard requires more music knowledge.
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#129600 - 10/07/11 03:54 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why are there no electric keyboards in ‘50s rock ‘n’ roll? [Re: rubberball103]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7256
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Mac, that was the model. I wonder if that guy still has the raft of them (they had 4 or 6 of them). If I still lived in MI I'd give him a call on it.

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PG Music News
Beginners Help - Muting the Melody Notation

Visit our Beginners Forum, and you'll notice our amazing Forum Community helping out new program users!

Like this recent post regarding Muting the Melody Notation: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=458716 - Forum user Matt Finley did a great job of answering the new program user!

Our Beginners Forum really is a great resource for new program users!

Q: When I have entered chords and notation for a song, is it possible to mute the notation and just have the chords playing? This would be helpful for when I just want the chord backing track but want to read the notation.

A: There are several ways to do this. The easiest is probably to use the Mixer window and change the volume slider to zero for the Melody track. Or, hit the Mute icon on the Mixer for the Melody Track.

Another way, with more control rather than all or nothing, is to press F5 at the measure where you want to mute, and select mute or change the volume to zero. Later, press F5 and select Return to Normal, or change the volume back.

Introducing... RealTracks Artists David Wise & Shelly Justice!

For the first time ever Band-in-a-Box® can generate backing vocals with some amazing "oohs" and "aahs" vocal arrangements with RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs! Add male or female parts by renowned Nashville vocalists David Wise and Shelly Justice, and you'll LOVE the results!

David and Shelly have recorded with many different artists, including CeCe Winans, Dolly Parton, Don Henley, Donnie McClurkin, Jeremy Camp, Lady Antebellum, OneRepublic, Steve Green, and more!

RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs includes a three-part, six-voice arrangement – which you can use all together in your song or individually for more delicate textures! Listen to the demos for RealTracks Set 278 here.

Purchase RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs for just $29 here. It's also included in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows PlusPAK, UltraPAK, and Audiophile Edition.

Learn more about Dave & Shelly when you visit their RealTracks Artist Bio page:
David Wise: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=150
Shelly Justice: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=151

#TechTipTuesday - Band-in-a-Box® Patch Updates

If you're ever experiencing an issue with your Band-in-a-Box program, make sure you have the most recent patch update for your version - this can be done at http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm.

Patch updates are released frequently, and are created by our development team to fix any reported bugs, tweak existing features within the program, update demos and other files as needed, and more!

To find out which version of the program you have, visit Help | About Band-in-a-Box within the program. You will see the full version number listing as:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2018 (512)

The number in parentheses is the build number. As you can see, my Band-in-a-Box is up to date and will continue to stay that way because I've selected "Automatically check for updates every 7 days" within the Help | Check for Updates.... option (you can set the number of days to a different number). This window will also look to see if you're version is up to date, so you don't technically have to visit http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm if you didn't want to!

Once you've installed your patch update (make sure the program is closed when you're doing this), give it another try - if you are still experiencing the same issue you can report it by contacting us directly, or you can post your result to the Forum thread that also announces the patch update, like our recent Band-in-a-Box 2018 Build 512 Update (Feb 15) post.

YouTube Find - How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES

Check out one of EricBlackmonGuitar's latest videos, How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES and you'll hear a great Band-in-a-Box backing track!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=blJPIX-9YbE

...and you'll also learn how to play blues with just a few notes!

A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qPrejgnwb4M

RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

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