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#138968 - 12/07/11 04:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: musiclover]
Skyline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2273
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
Quote:

...The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software (I can count myself in this group) a lot of retired people use it, very very few young people either appear or post on this forum even though they have been shown biab by seasoned users on here.

PGmusic has a loyal following of older users who mostly have the disposable income to upgrade twice a year. Why ruffle the feathers of the older users by introducing a new GUI that many of the users won't like?
...Why would PG want to change a winning formula!

Musiclover




Because a company that only caters for an ageing and therefore shrinking user base, ignoring the need to replenish and grow its appeal to younger (below 50?!) potential users is going to perish.
(I turned 63 this week in case anyone was wondering).
_________________________
Songs web site
YouTube Channel
Band web site
BIAB 2017
Cakewalk by BandLab
Studio One 3

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#138969 - 12/07/11 05:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Pat Marr]
Tobin - PG Music Inc. Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 317
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Quote:

When I deliver it on Christmas, I'll take time to show him how to use it so he doesn't get frustrated and give up prematurely. He will be my first young person convert.






Hi Pat,

That's excellent! I have a suggestion too. One of my favourite new features is the "Band" button, and I think it'll be a good place to start for beginners. Veteran users love the zillions of styles in the stylepickers, but my guess is that it can be a bit daunting for beginners. The Band button is a quick and easy way to get the most popular styles in an obvious way.

Thanks for spreading the word!
_________________________
*************************


Tobin - PG Music Inc.

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#138970 - 12/07/11 06:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Tobin - PG Music Inc.]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 791
Loc: Spain
The new video that has been just released has convinced me. Great video! Seeing the new features in action give you another completely different perspective about them and their enourmous posibilites than just reading a list of new features. The Easy selection of Drum Grooves, the support of Loops and (specially) the new Individual MIDI Tracks and its built-in MIDI Tracks Finder are going to be a big help to me, a real a time saver. My god, I need to upgrade RIGHT NOW!!! (Btw, could anybody delete my first post here )

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#138971 - 12/07/11 06:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Cerio]
musiclover Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1526
Loc: Ireland
Cerio, to be honest I thought you were disappointed because you had already upgraded and weren't impressed by what you saw-now I know differently!

Skyline very good points-love your music and have visited your website often-as someone who is over 50 we are only chickens yet

musiclover


Edited by musiclover (12/07/11 06:31 PM)
_________________________
Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 7 (32bit) and 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro,Band in a Box 2018 Cubase 5.0 and Cubase elements 7.0.

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#138972 - 12/07/11 07:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Tobin - PG Music Inc.]
rikkisbears Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 254
Loc: Australia
Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.

Anyway I luv the new upgrade. I'm more of an arranger keyboard user, but BIAB realtrack styles are brilliant, some of the styles work better for certain songs than what's available on my $5k keyboard.

The 2 together are a brilliant combination.






Hi Pat,

That's excellent! I have a suggestion too. One of my favourite new features is the "Band" button, and I think it'll be a good place to start for beginners. Veteran users love the zillions of styles in the stylepickers, but my guess is that it can be a bit daunting for beginners. The Band button is a quick and easy way to get the most popular styles in an obvious way.

Thanks for spreading the word!


_________________________
best wishes
rikki

BIAB 2015
Korg PA3X
Yamaha s950
Korg PA800

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#138973 - 12/07/11 08:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Cerio]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I wonder if the 2012 edition has managed to fix certain bugs I flagged up in the past. Like minor riffs playing over Maj7b5 chords. Or the shell voicing option in the style wizard .. just two that come to mind.

My feeling is that certain wish list items will be taken up.. as long as they don't involve any serious re-write of the midi engine. That's why I think requests like 8 chords to the bar or the ability to add/define new chords to the database stand next to no chance of ever being implemented no matter how often they come up.

That being said I still enjoy using the program for what it is.

Regards

Alan

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#138974 - 12/07/11 08:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: alan S.]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7568
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
regarding the request for more configurable menus:

as I watched the 2012 new features video it occurred to me that while other music software companies are making their menus more configurable, BIAB is all about making the MUSIC configurable.

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#138975 - 12/07/11 10:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Cerio]
RickeG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 484
Cerio,
I have to share your position on the points you made. It was good that you pointed out these issues such as the Real tracks not looking at the phrases as a whole but in chunks even so much as lose its musical bearings as it hits off notes and the like as well as the screen refresh issues like when you are changing repeats and the like. I get disoriented because once the repeat is added the entire chord window changes.

Like you, I agree that this is a very good product. And I endorse it to any of my students that have gotten to the level where i feel they can navigate it. However, like you said, it would be wise to do a cleanup to make the UI more manageable. There needs to be consideration given to making the UI more user friendly. And sometimes less is more in most instances. I do like what MS has done with the Ribbon concept. It is one way to make options available in categories and yet, remove much of what I call "screen noise" in that of blinding arrays of buttons and text.

However, I do like the roll over offering definitions and examples of the button or option you are considering using. That is a very intuitive feature and has helped me a lot.

And yes, I too, would love to see tracks go into the Funk, and more selections for Latin outside of the jazz options. I agree that as I am pitching this to a younger audience it would be wise for the developers to consider in order to sustain over time they are going to need to consider the genres that pique their interests too. There will come a time where my interests in jazz and rock will take a back seat to another hybrid of styles.

It looks like I will need to continue waiting before my next upgrade as these issues have not been addressed in the current version. Bummer.

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#138976 - 12/07/11 10:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: RickeG]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
>>> The new video that has been just released has convinced me. Great video! Seeing the new features in action give you another completely different perspective about them and their enourmous posibilites than just reading a list of new features. The Easy selection of Drum Grooves, the support of Loops and (specially) the new Individual MIDI Tracks and its built-in MIDI Tracks Finder are going to be a big help to me, a real a time saver. My god, I need to upgrade RIGHT NOW!!!


Glad to hear it Cerio! Yes, Tobin @ PG Music did a great job with the video!

>> (Btw, could anybody delete my first post here
Sure. I'll keep the thread alive, and just delete the first post.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#138977 - 12/08/11 12:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: PeterGannon]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes. Sadly I'm still capable of the bad notes and have to live with that.

I played a b natural about 8 times this afternoon while the whole group was on B flat, and I got it for the last verse. I had a horn with the bell facing my wife and I'm sure she was traumatized. What to do? She had every level of piano, then 5 years of music and 1 of education, and I took timber scaling. Bad decision on my part, but I can tell you how many board feet in a white pine sawlog. Great talent that. (Or not).
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#138978 - 12/08/11 04:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: rikkisbears]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7568
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.






I've often thought the same thing, but... consider the flexible music system that BIAB is... we can apply any style to any song and get a totally fresh version of it! So, in the final analysis, almost every style could be used in every song, depending on the arrangement!

But if you're talking about finding the most suitable style for a cover song, I'm sure a lot of people would like the same thing. Might be a good group project, because its usefulness would grow exponentially if many people participated in making it a dynamic list.

I'm not sure of the best way to execute it. Maybe we could start with a group brainstorm? .

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#138979 - 12/08/11 07:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: John Conley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
Quote:

I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes. Sadly I'm still capable of the bad notes and have to live with that.

I played a b natural about 8 times this afternoon while the whole group was on B flat, and I got it for the last verse. I had a horn with the bell facing my wife and I'm sure she was traumatized. What to do? She had every level of piano, then 5 years of music and 1 of education, and I took timber scaling. Bad decision on my part, but I can tell you how many board feet in a white pine sawlog. Great talent that. (Or not).




B natural against Bb would be okay in some contexts! Might not sound good on a Christmas Carol ..maybe a cover version by Albert Ayler or John Coltrane. They'd surely find a way to make it fit!

Regards


Alan

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#138980 - 12/08/11 07:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: John Conley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
Incidentally talking about fixing bad notes, here's a link to a program that's taken BIAB's Wizard Playalong feature to the next level. If it's half as good as its cracked up to be it might be worth an investment.

Hotz Midi Translator

What it shows once again is that PG could, if it chose to, develop the midi side of BIAB to new heights. It still has a much larger database of midi styles than Real Tracks even if it hasn't released any new ones for some time. Time to catch up now on what is still possible with midi I'd have thought.

Regards

Alan


Edited by alan S. (12/08/11 07:45 AM)

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#138981 - 12/10/11 12:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Pat Marr]
rikkisbears Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 254
Loc: Australia
Hi Pat,
that would be wonderful, if we could get anybody interested.

I sort of lost track of this thread, there's so much activity on the site at the moment, it's hard to keep up. haahaa


Quote:

Quote:

Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.






I've often thought the same thing, but... consider the flexible music system that BIAB is... we can apply any style to any song and get a totally fresh version of it! So, in the final analysis, almost every style could be used in every song, depending on the arrangement!

But if you're talking about finding the most suitable style for a cover song, I'm sure a lot of people would like the same thing. Might be a good group project, because its usefulness would grow exponentially if many people participated in making it a dynamic list.

I'm not sure of the best way to execute it. Maybe we could start with a group brainstorm? .


_________________________
best wishes
rikki

BIAB 2015
Korg PA3X
Yamaha s950
Korg PA800

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#138982 - 12/10/11 04:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: rikkisbears]
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
I actually found very strange the inclusion of Amplitube. It's a useful vst if you want to record your guitar, but why would anyone choose a realtrack DI guitar with Amplitube rather than a realtrack with the recording from a real tube amp. I much prefer the latter, but hey...

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#138983 - 12/10/11 04:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: alan S.]
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
Quote:

I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes.




I like to think that Biab is a program for musicians. B natural will sound good over Bb only if you know what you are doing, e.g. will sound good on top of a B7...

sorry I am just tired to hear of people who pretend that they can make music by pressing buttons. If you want to be a musician, put some work in it, learn to play, and THEN use a program like Biab.

Biab is a tool, an aid to make quick demos, not some sort of virtual superbrain that will fix your shortcomings as a musician.

Sorry for the though love, but it's time for reality check, people. Stop pretending and get real, making music is fun if you want to sing a song with your friends, but if you want to MAKE music, you have to put your backside in gear, no ifs and no buts.

That said, PG Music made a great job with this program, and the new features are making me seriously consider the upgrade.

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#138984 - 12/10/11 05:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
JBlue7 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 152
Loc: Glos. England
Hi All,
I'm certainly glad I waited for the video demo of the new features, especially the Amplitude VST proceedure. Usually I plunge ahead and take ages trying to work things out. Anyway loving the new features and now my Studio is virtually computer based the Guitar/Amplitude gives me so many more possabilities when creating backing tracks for my own songs.

Yes I agree with avatars my BAND [biab] as I call it, is only another tool, albeit a fantastic one to make your own music or just play with. I would soon get bored if I was just using BAND to create songs without any real input from myself from Sonar mixing, my keyboard, guitar & vocal. Although you can make an instant song in a few minutes it takes a lot of time and effort to create a song of your own from scratch. Not being a natural musician, over the years BAND has taught me so much, especially about music theory, it's a great tool and I am sure everyone uses it differently, the main thing is to enjoy what you do and hopefully get that buzz from the results.
I've only scratched the surface of everything band contains as I guess most of us as with my other software I just use what we need to to get a job done.
Upgrade is well worth it, for me anyway......
Regards. Jeff

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#138985 - 12/10/11 05:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Beagle]
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
Quote:

Cerio,
I would argue, however, that BIAB is not a full fledged sequencer like Cubase and doesn't claim to be.






why not? Realband was made to offer Cubase-like functionality plus the Biab accompaniment. They are all sequencers. They are all program that allow you to record MIDI or audio and edit it. Never understood this dumb stigma where basically someone says with the nose up in the air: 'uh, no, if it's not Cubase 513b then I don't feel professional enough'

I still use Cubase, mainly because I have my older projects on it. Cubase LE version 1, paid 15 bucks used. Would never spend more than that on it, but on Biab I have no problem spending some money on.

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#138986 - 12/10/11 05:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: Cerio]
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
Quote:

Quote:

You complain about the undo, etc...that's ridicolous, I remember when it wasn't even there.




Honestly, I don't see your point, but well




I don't see your point either....so far I have had no problem with the undo, I don't have a problem with the interface and with 80 per cent of the things you mentioned. My problem about Biab has always been the chord recognition (uncalled for alterations, extensions, etc, even with the options disabled) and the fact that there isn't a MIDI software module that can match the quality of a Ketron SD2 at the very least, without spending a small fortune on a MIDI module.

As for everything else, I can live with it. I don't care about the interface, to me this is trivial stuff, it's unimportant. Who cares? I actually don't want the stuff moved around in a new interface. It takes time to learn your way around such a complex program (and Biab is COMPLEX because it has all these options).
I don't want a new interface. I still use Windows XP and I will keep using it, I don't care about Windows Hasta La Vista or the new 137 bit graphic design and don't have time to waste with learning new crap...life is really too short to worry too much about every single thing computer. What matters are the results, i.e. the music I write. I want to make music happen. I don't care about all the rest.

So far to me the new version offers notable (for me) improvements: I am very curious as how the 'simpler arrangement' works, hope that Biab reads my chord progressions with 100 per cent accuracy without anything extra unless I specify it. This feature only will be reason enough for me to buy the upgrade. A mixer has been added. Yeeeeeh! I was tired sick of that slot machine thing.

Hope you see my point a little better...

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#138987 - 12/10/11 06:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
JBlue7 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 152
Loc: Glos. England
Hi All,
Yes I agree again Avatar. The interface is not important to me either and the mixer is still a little primitive although I do most of mixing eventually in Sonar so not too important and everything works perfectly on my W7 PC. Been using biab since the mid 80's and I'd be kind of lost if they changed it and don't want to spend time learning where everything is again. A lot of software new versions and upgrades these days are released claiming new version's or upgrades but it's the same old thing in the disguise of a new pretty [questionably easier to use] interface, same with websites. One way of making money I guess.

I think if I have a moan at all with the new upgrade it would be the fact that it seems you now have to buy the bonus paks to obtain all the available new realtracks/drums, I hope not a new trend. I do think it ought to be included in the upgrade even if it cost just a little more in the first place. I had to add mine later not realising this at the time.

Regards. Jeff

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