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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545
PG Music Staff
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OP
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545 |
A number of people have posted a similar request, namely to increase the MIDI resolution of Band-in-a-Box, from 120 PPQ to something higher (like 960 PPQ).
This post is to let people know that we won't be able to implement that feature, but we also don't think it would be needed, or even detectable on listening.
So here's an explanation of why we're not implemeting that, and also why we don't think it would be needed or even detectable.
First of all, let me say that if we were starting Band-in-a-Box "from scratch", then yes of course we'd make the timing resolution a huge number, there'd be no reason not to. But with an existing application, and all kinds of file formats, then there are a lot of "reasons not to".
OK, here is the explanation:
Band-in-a-Box's current timing resolution is 120 PPQ. This is 4 milliseconds (ms) at a tempo of 120. This is great timing resolution, and in our tests, noone can hear differences below that.
Q. How good is 4ms timing per note?
A. It's great, and there are other areas of your PC, and MIDI setup that are way worse than that.
- sound travels 1 foot per ms. So if you are playing live with a person 2 feet away, you are already experiencing a 4ms latency (2ms to get to you, and 2ms getting back to you). Would you notice a latency there?
- Computer's have a timing accuracy of 1ms "SOME OF THE TIME". Music program ask for timing interrupts every 1ms, but in practice, Windows priorities things, and sometimes you don't get a timing interreupt for up to 30ms (if a video driver is updating screen for example, you are shut out). So increasing timing resolution better than 4ms would have no effect on that, you would still hear periods where timing resolution would be much less.
- MIDI standard itself takes 1 ms to transmit each note. SO if you're using a hardware MIDI module for playback, you're currently not seeing anything close to 4ms timing accuracy, you're getting only 35 ms accuracy (at times in the song). For example, at the begninning of a bar, there may be 5 note offs, 10 note ons, and that's 15ms delay before the last note is received. Then it takes a typical MIDI module up to 20ms to get those notes played - so that's a 35ms delay, which is far worse than BB's 4ms timing.
*** If you are using a MIDI Hardware module, and you are bothered by timing, you should switch to a software synth - there is no timing issue there ***
(Note: Please note that I am referring to timing accuracy as the song plays, the bad thing about hardware MIDI is that the timing CHANGES as the song is played. Software synths have a latency, but it is FIXED. By analogy, satellite radio has a fixed latency, but the latency (timing) doesn't change as the song plays, so it sounds perfect,
Q. OK, I understand the above, but, still, why don't you ignore all that, and increase resolution anyway, if only to please customers who would like it done even if they can't detect a difference.
A. There a bunch of reasons why it would make Band-in-a-Box a worse program.
- format of styles and songs would need to change. This means that any styles or songs made in the new version wouldn't play on older Band-in-a-Box's. We have carefully preserved this song and style format, so that customers get forward and backward compatibility.
- None of the existing 2,000 or so styles that we have already made would sound any different, since they'd be the old resolution. Noone would want to pay to get higher res versions of styles, because they couldn't hear any difference anyway.
- No existing songs are going to sound any different (since they are still at the old resolution)
- hundreds (possibly thousands) of routines that have worked for years in BIAB would need to be rewritten, leading to new bugs in old code that worked fine.
- it would take a huge amount of time, instead of adding other features that people would notice.
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
I hope that this explains our position.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Quote:
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
Given the above explanation, this would be great.
I suspect that the reason most want greater than 120 is not so much for the accompaniment tracks, but the melody and soloist track. Greater than 120 allows for much greater expressiveness (perhaps continuous controllers with finer granularity for pitch bends or glissandos. The higher number can allow for a more natural performance when entering the melody or solo. It also allows for finer granularity when editing accompanying audio, as well.
Just my $0.02 worth.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Quote:
Quote:
One option that we could add easily, is a setting for export of MIDI files, to export them at, for example 960 PPQ instead of 120 PPQ. That would allow people who work at that res in other DAWS to at least get the files transferred at the same PPQ. Of course BB would still be working at 120PPQ internally.
Given the above explanation, this would be great.
I suspect that the reason most want greater than 120 is not so much for the accompaniment tracks, but the melody and soloist track. Greater than 120 allows for much greater expressiveness (perhaps continuous controllers with finer granularity for pitch bends or glissandos. The higher number can allow for a more natural performance when entering the melody or solo. It also allows for finer granularity when editing accompanying audio, as well.
Just my $0.02 worth.
A BIG +1
Thanx for the explanation.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Expert
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Expert
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A Great explanation, I didn't know how much I didn't know. I think the export feature would be a great plus for those who would use it.
One question is: Does the resolution of 120 verses say 960 have any effect on the editing process?
Thanks Peter for taking the time.
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Peter, i really appreciate the explanation, it helps us understand. While you do not owe us an explanation for every issue, maybe once in a while one like this might help us not hound Y'all (funny southern expression) over some stuff. Like the VSTi tempo lock, or such.
It would be interesting to understand why somethings are not addressed. I know it would keep clamoring in the masses down a notch or three.
Respectfully, Rob
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Excellent explanation, Peter, and very much appreciated. I do throw a big +1 on top of everybody else's for the higher-res MIDI export.
I am asking this only out of curiosity at this point: Does this have anything at all to do with the 256-bar limit?
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2024 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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OP
PG Music Staff
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Posts: 15,545 |
>> Does this have anything at all to do with the 256-bar limit?
Hi Tom,
No, those issues are unrelated.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Very informative. I'm happy with the present setup for now.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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This should be duplicated in the band in a box forum, and made sticky here. In my crumble opinion.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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That is a good idea Peter for a check-box export of MIDI at 960 PPQ ,it should satisfy those who want the resolution higher and have the time to edit it. Hope it won't detract from making more Real Tracks for those that don't have thousands of dollars just to make a midi song sound usable . For me midi died the day Real Tracks got here ,just me and my ears opinion .
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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have a good time. 
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Enthusiast
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Well, I'm glad there's an explanation to this on going issue. Yes,
I agree having an option to export or save as 960 or higher than 120
would be a great improvement. Maybe midi is not lost after all?
Especially for those of us who still use it for writing and editing.
Thanks Peter for BIAB and the reasons why....
Wrkinit
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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