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#167284 - 08/01/12 08:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Pat Marr]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
What we have here is failure to cmyoonicate. I know what I'm saying is true but can't explain it any better at the moment (working). I'll come back to it, or maybe someone can clarify it before then.
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#167285 - 08/01/12 08:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Ryszard]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Okay, I'm on break. Let me try again.

When you turn on a power switch it is considered "energized." Doing this from our notional amplifier's switch starts a timer connected to a relay which suppresses audio output until the power-on transient has passed. This is a one-shot device. The delay won't happen again until you cycle the unit's onboard power switch again, i.e., turn it off and back on.

Therefore, if the switch is left on while the device is powered down, when you reintroduce power you will get an inrush transient as the device powers up, but with no delay as the relay has already been triggered. Therefore the transient will be passed to the speakers if they are on. Megathump to the max. Bad. Krunk says not do.

Is mo' bettah?
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#167286 - 08/01/12 09:37 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Pat Marr]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7454
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
You can buy a rack-mounted power distro that is designed to delay the power to the outlets for amps. Used it for years in a built-in rack at the listening room at GM, but can't remember the name of the brand!

IMO, every amp rack in a PA system should have one of these boys.

-Scott

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#167287 - 08/01/12 01:26 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: rockstar_not]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7572
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
here's a link to the strip I was talking about for anybody whose devices don't have the feature Richard is talking about:

http://1000bulbs.com/product/56488/TCP-L...=www.become.com

a similar device:
http://www.brookstone.com/smart-strip-automatic-power-controller



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#167288 - 08/01/12 01:46 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Pat Marr]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
I especially like the "ergonomic design." Whaddya, gonna sit on it?
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#167289 - 08/01/12 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Ryszard]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7572
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I especially like the "ergonomic design." Whaddya, gonna sit on it?



Why oh WHY did you plant that visual in my mind??

(erase, erase...)

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#167290 - 08/01/12 04:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Rachael]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

I've been reading up on Mac's suggestions and am leaning towards the QSC - made in USA and has 6 year warranty. The Crown would be my next choice.

Another question...

My 'old' amp had an auto sensing which would turn the amp on when a signal is received. After a few minutes of no signal, it would shut off. This is important because the amp is not in an easily accessed area. Neither the QSC or Crown have this ability. I assume that leaving the amp on continually is not a good idea?

Does anyone know of audio signal sensor that would automatically turn power on/off to the amp? No, the Clapper won't cut it!

Thanks




For the record, my own personal choice would be for the QSC over the Crown. Just so you know.

What are you using for preamp? Many audio preamps feature AC connects on the rear, some marked, "Switched" which means that anything plugged in there will switch on and off with the preamp's front panel power switch.

If you don't have that, consider a common plug strip with built in switch, which can be placed closer to you, and plug the amp - and anything else related into that strip, using one switch to power all on and off.

BTW -- the sensing audio power switching stuff is a good way to have to send an amp to the repair technician on a regular basis. You see, the entire amplifier cannot be entirely cur off from the power line with this nifty accessory, leaving a path for transients, spikes and lightning strikes to make it into your amp and take out all sorts of delicate and expe$ive components. I like a physical power cutoff switch, thankyewverrmuch.


--Mac
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#167291 - 08/02/12 07:23 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Mac]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I don't use a preamp. I use a Logitech Duet to stream music from my computer and Pandora. The output from the Duet goes to the amplifier via RCA plugs. Volume and anything else is controlled via the Duet.

The power strip that shuts everything off when the master is powered down looks very interesting. I am not sure it would work for me as the Duet goes into a standby mode which really is not off. However, I am able to turn it off with a few extra steps from a remote. I'll read up on these and see if it would work.

A comment on the audio sensing switch - I suspect this may contributed to the Audiosource to fail twice. I recall several occasions during a storm where the amp switched on/off several times. And during soft music passages, the amp would cycle off/on a number of times.

Despite being connected to a voltage regulator and whole-house surge suppressor, it still managed to die twice in 3 years with sparse usage. Another reason to favor the QSC is the 6 year warranty.

Thanks everyone for the input.

R

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#167292 - 08/05/12 06:27 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Rachael]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Rachael, you're talking about listening to MP3's. You're not listening to CD quality much less audiophile. Read this:

http://help.pandora.com/customer/portal/articles/90985-audio-quality

For that level of audio quality most anything would work fine like Scott's $25 amp from Goodwill. Forget about how great the spec's are for QSC and the like. MP3's are compressed files for pete's sake. If you honestly can't tell or don't care about the difference between listening to a CD quality song in Real Band and that same song compressed to an MP3 at 128K then this whole discussion is academic. Basically anything would be fine as long is it's not humming and crackling.

Bob
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#167293 - 08/05/12 07:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Maybe her mp3 files are at higher bitrates or possibly even the no-loss Variable Bitrate.

Maybe she also wishes to listen to CDs.

Maybe she also wants hi fidelity to play BiaB, DAW and other sudio as well.


--Mac
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#167294 - 08/05/12 09:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Mac]
Rachael Offline
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Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
Bob,

Not only Pandora. My music collection is lossless FLAC. So to add to Mac's post: yes, yes and yes

R

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#167295 - 08/06/12 12:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7454
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
As far as I know, variable bitrate .mp3 files are still lossy.

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#167296 - 08/06/12 04:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: rockstar_not]
ROG Offline
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Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 2614
Loc: York, England
There's always the point about cumulative loss. That is, whatever the quality of the source material, you don't want to degrade it any further.

Just sayin'...

ROG.

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#167297 - 08/06/12 08:26 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: ROG]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I noticed that in the last few months amps weigh way less. I have 2 heavy duty ones. I also note that some new amps have 20 amp male plugs, the club thought they were 220v but it's specd at over 15 amps (most wiring)' so new copper, new plug and off you go.
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#167298 - 08/06/12 10:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: rockstar_not]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

As far as I know, variable bitrate .mp3 files are still lossy.




That's not the point here.

Some call VBR "lossless" -- technicians know better, BUT -- my reply simply was trying to say that the poster's refernce to mp3 as being "128KBPS" *only* -- as in webstreaming, was not only erroneous, but rather condescending towards our lady's wish to have an amp with good spec.

Besides, it is now thoroughly debunked and a moot point, as the lady states that she listens to a lot of FLAC as well.

When I webstream a 128 audio file, I still listen to it on the very same reference monitoring system that I built for my recording and other music endeavors. At least I can be confident on what I am hearing, lossy or not.

But I've double-blindfolded quite a few who have told me that they can easily hear differences in the various compressed and even uncompressed digital formats. To date, nobody has scored 100%...


--Mac
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#167299 - 08/06/12 10:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: John Conley]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Oh yeah, 9 puonds for a 1000W stereo amp? Amazing. My old 500W Peavey has to weigh 40 pounds, maybe more. That thing is a real lump. Sounds good though. And then there's the new neo whatever magnets for speakers. That combo is how the new powered Class D PA speakers like the Yamaha DXR series put out 1100W and weighs 34 pounds. I've been looking to upgrade my stage rig and this new stuff is really good. Expensive too, I'm still trying to calibrate my "bang for the buck" meter.

Bob
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#167300 - 08/06/12 11:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: jazzmammal]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3900
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

I'm still trying to calibrate my "bang for the buck" meter.




I'm sure Mr. Marr can help you out!
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#167301 - 08/06/12 11:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
The heavy weight of the older bipolar transistor power amplifiers was due to the fact that they had to incorporate a heavy "iron" AC power transformer. Since bipolar transistors are Current devices, that meant being able to supply the amplifier itself, which typically weighs less than a pound or two (driver circuit board plus output transistors and lightweight aluminum heatsink) with a voltage lower than the AC power input, transformed to high Current. At 50-60Hz, that requires a lot of iron laminations in the power transformer.

The weight savings in today's designs come from using modern Switching Power Suppy desings, which, while still needing to supply the lower voltage at a higher current, can do so without the need for the big mass of iron because the Switching Supply first rectifies the incoming AC to DC, then "chops" it up into AC at a much higher frequency, typically around 40KHz or higher. They still use transformers, but at that higher frequency the transformers are very small indeed by comparison.

The use of the FET (Field Effect) Power Transistor intead of the older Bipolar Silicon transistor also contributes to the lowered cost and weight of the modern power amp. Means we can control more power with less devices. And a few other good things.

An amplifier of any kind is but a modulated power supply.


--Mac
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#167302 - 08/06/12 11:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: jazzmammal]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Rachael, I wasn't being condescending.

Mac, that's all she referenced, streaming Pandora. Pandora's site says consumer stuff only receives it at 128K. At that bitrate, you don't need a good spec amp. How many times have we including you, suggested to people if you want good answers provide complete info in your questions? I've read her posts before, she knows the difference between mixing good audio in a home studio and streaming MP3's. If she's only talking about one and not the other so?? Sorry Rachael, I'm not deliberately talking past you here, this is for Mac. And how many times Mac have you said if on a budget pick up a good name 70-80's era stereo receiver at a yard sale? Or Goodwill like Scott said. Even a 2000 era cheapo Panasonic/Awia/Sony low end consumer home theater receiver is fine for this. And if a person can't hear the difference between an uncompressed wav file and an MP3 anyway then you still don't need a high spec amp do you? Therefore, my answer was complete, correct and not condescending. Just the facts, ma'am.

This brings up another point that we all should consider when thinking about new equipment. There's ear testing websites and we already have home studio setups. Test ourselves if we really can hear these differences or not. I admit I can some of the time. Other times not so much. It mainly depends on the freq range in the source material. Higher freq's are what starts to break up in compressed files and higher freq's are what older folks start to lose first. I can hear cymbals breaking up on some MP3's but mainly on small group stuff like trios where the drums are hot. But, on bigger band higher engergy stuff like traditional big band or TOP things, it's pretty hard to really hear that. For me it's becomming marginal as to whether it's worth it or not. I've been using an Alesis RA100 amp for years and I'm pretty sure that's as good as I will ever need for this stuff at home. You can buy one of those for $100 used all day long now. When I mix stuff after I get it to where I think it should be I deliberately boost the higher freq's above 9K a few db to allow for people with better hearing because my own hearing rolls off about there. I'll never know if that is appropriate or not but I think it is.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#167303 - 08/06/12 12:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Stereo amplifier recommendation [Re: jazzmammal]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I took no offense to any comments; you would know if I did . My earlier post did say that I listen to both Pandora and music streamed from my computer. Funny how some of these topics drift.

I have always appreciated anyone taking time to respond - this is no exception. Again, thanks for all of the feedback.

R

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