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#175632 - 10/09/12 02:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: oublaj]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
There are 2 ingredients that no one has mentioned & they are the most important. You can have the best gear, the best room etc.,etc.If you don't have these 2 items you'll never get there.
1. Musical talent
2. engineering talent.
It's not enough to say "put a CD on and make yours sound like that"
You could put a painting of the Mona Lisa in front of me and I could try and replicate it until I die and it would still look like a 3 year old did it.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#175633 - 10/09/12 02:46 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: rockstar_not]
rockstar_not Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7417
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
BTW - for anyone interested in purchasing foam based acoustic treatment, there is a Michigan based company that sells for WAY less than Auralex or Primacoustic or the other companies that do foam based acoustic treatment that advertise in magazines and online.

http://www.foambymail.com/blog/refine-a-rooms-sound-with-custom-acoustical-sound-treatment/

There is a direct relationship between the wavelengths absorbed by foam wedge type treatment and the depth of the foam wedges. Don't go too shallow. Deeper wedges will absorb down to lower frequencies. Yes, deeper wedges are always more expensive.

-Scott

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#175634 - 10/10/12 03:45 AM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: eddie1261]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 832
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

What I found interesting/astounding was that when my back is to the speakers, so my chair is spun around 180, it sounds different than when I am facing the speakers.




Same thing I said 16 posts back....
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#175635 - 10/10/12 09:42 AM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: jcspro40]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

Same thing I said 16 posts back....




That must be where I heard it then.....
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175636 - 10/10/12 01:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: Kemmrich]
CountryTrash Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 375
Loc: Benoni, South Africa
I agree with the monitors. I used PC speakers before and my recordings sucked.

When i bought my Rhode NT2A mic I also,splurged on M-audio BX5 monitors. (No female supervision present of course)

When i started my new mixes i was shocked at the difference. Sounds as if i paid to have my songs mixed. At least that what the family also thought compared to my previous (now) junk.
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I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....

I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)

BIAB 2017W + RB
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Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
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#175637 - 10/10/12 08:17 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: Kemmrich]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 832
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

You will see that the EQ curve is not "flat".




True, but it is something to aim for across all the tracks, THEN you can start trying to tweak them into a coherent collection. You have to have a unified starting point when working this type of stuff...well, anyhoo, it works for me when I get old cassettes & reel-to-reels in.


Quote:

Quote:

Same thing I said 16 posts back....




That must be where I heard it then.....








My AAMS suggestion is just a quick fix for the old material, of course it is better to "do it right" from the start, but hey, we all can not have perfect rooms or speakers.

I like to eat & be bill free, so until my next "royalty check" I just hang some moving blankets L-C-R to tame the reflections some, triple check bass thru 2 sets of headphones & boom boxes, and call it a day..
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#175638 - 10/10/12 08:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: rockstar_not]
toucher Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Arizona
Eddie,

One thing i have noticed over the years is that no matter how good your system is, it (the final sound) often comes down to a few factors:

1. How good is your own hearing over the entire spectrum.

2. As note, the mix sounds different on your powered monitors than on certain headphones. Some phones are prone to be very bass heavy to begin with, while others can be downright tinny.

3. Your listener may hear something totally different than you do on the same system. Very few people have perfect hearing in all freqs, and I would guess even fewer still have great pitch.

4. Some people don't "care" what it sounds like as long as there is a good beat.

5. Play your favorite track thru a boom box and you'll get one sound, thru a computer speaker system (also known to have bass tendancies), you'll get still another. Play it thru a high end audiophile system flat you'll get another, you get the idea.

Its a combination of all the posts above, I'm not sure if there is a perfect mix, if there was someone would be selling software for it a making millions.

Just my opinion.

Rob
_________________________
Dang....This is addicting.

http://www.reverbnation.com/roberttrippmusic

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#175639 - 10/10/12 11:14 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: toucher]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 832
Loc: Ohio-USA
And just to show a couple of quick examples of AAMS, here are 2 clips from a track that is used in a course I have. I did not track this.

All tracks are 24/44.1 .wav, rendered down to 16/44.1 .wav. These examples were mixed down in about an hour using Reaper 4.26 & only it's native effects. Mastering was done in the AAMS system using the RockRMS Reference file.

The files were then edited together in Reaper.

Then uploaded at 16/44.1 to Soundcloud.


1. The Raw Tracks, 1st half just balanced, 2nd half Mastered

2. The 1st half tweaked with EQ, Comp, and Gating, 2nd half Mastered



**WARNING!!!!!**

THE 2ND HALF OF EACH TRACK IS MUCH LOUDER THAN THE 1ST HALF!!

PLEASE WATCH THE VOLUME JUMP & PROTECT YOUR EARS!!!!

**WARNING!!!!!**



You might like the sound, you might not. All I can say is that I have never had a compliant yet from a client.
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#175640 - 10/11/12 11:25 AM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: jcspro40]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6531
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Eddie all I can tell you is to think about what courses you took and what certs you have in order to be considered an IT pro. When you respond to posts here from people having computer problems, you say things like I've been doing this for 20 years and I'm telling you it's this or you have to do that. You know that in order to explain it in detail would take you over an hour and require you to write a couple pages of very technical stuff that you know the person wouldn't understand anyway.

Same thing here. There's a whole tech language to this you know nothing about.

You're asking and making comments about something that requires full college courses and years of experience to learn. Check this out:

http://www.studio82a.com/Ohio.htm

You really want to learn this stuff and have an intelligent conversation with someone like Harvey, ROG, Scott or Mac? Sign up with one of these schools and come back in a few years.

Don't have time for that? Then just do what these guys tell you to do. Just like if I happened to develop serious PC problems and asked you for help. I trust your knowledge in that area so I would have to listen and do. That's it.

Bob
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#175641 - 10/11/12 12:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: jazzmammal]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
You know Bob, that's a really good plan. I didn't even know CCC had that program! And when I looked at the link, I know 3 of the people on faculty. That downtown campus is a bit of a drive, but I would like to do something like that. I actually went to CCC for the computer degree. WAY back when....
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175642 - 10/11/12 04:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: eddie1261]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6531
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Yeah and if you do it you'll probably find the classes are packed by young kids thinking "what's Grandpa doing here?"

And, even though it's a good idea to do this if you really want to learn this stuff, all the course assignments and hands on time in their studio will be based on "music" you can't stand, learning how to mix for dubstep synth screeches, euro techno dance or that nice soothing subwoofer hip hop thumping. They're going to take some mixes out to the parking lot so everybody can hear how great it sounds in that tricked out 2003 Integra that's nothing but a 5000W rolling speaker enclosure. I can see it now, all the kids are raving about how this new song is so awesomly great while you're throwing up in the corner because it sounds so bad you can't stand to listen to it any more...

Actually you can probably find some courses that focus on different styles of music that may be acceptable to you. And you never know, you may become the guy who starts the hip hop/death metal fusion style that takes over the world.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#175643 - 10/11/12 05:54 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: jazzmammal]
Brallan Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 385
Loc: Los Angeles, CA.
Or, just buy Ozone 5.
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#175644 - 10/11/12 06:07 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: Brallan]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
If you can DL this and IF you like it let me know and I'll explain.A new project I mixed and mastered. Teach Me To Love
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#175645 - 10/11/12 06:35 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: Brallan]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

Or, just buy Ozone 5.




What good would that do me if I don't know how to use it? I HAVE software. I just don't know how to EQ, when to use compression, how much reverb is enough reverb....

I don't need tools. I need lessons on how to use them.
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175646 - 10/11/12 06:36 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: silvertones]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

If you can DL this and IF you like it let me know and I'll explain.A new project I mixed and mastered. Teach Me To Love




Oh.... Teach Me TONIGHT! Sammy Cahn would be proud!
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175647 - 10/11/12 06:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: eddie1261]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
Quote:

Quote:

If you can DL this and IF you like it let me know and I'll explain.A new project I mixed and mastered. Teach Me To Love




Oh.... Teach Me TONIGHT! Sammy Cahn would be proud!



Right. "Tonight" not "to love". I hadn't listened to the file in a week or so. I'm not really familiar with it. Did you like it? The mix? The Master?
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#175648 - 10/11/12 07:14 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: silvertones]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

I'm not really familiar with it. Did you like it? The mix? The Master?




I like the end result. I'd like to be able to hear it in stages so I know take A to take B to take C to take D.....
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175649 - 10/11/12 07:36 PM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: jazzmammal]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4376
Quote:

Yeah and if you do it you'll probably find the classes are packed by young kids thinking "what's Grandpa doing here?"




Can't find a thing wrong with a being in a room of young women....

Quote:

I can see it now, all the kids are raving about how this new song is so awesomly great while you're throwing up in the corner because it sounds so bad you can't stand to listen to it any more...




I'll just have to explain why Tower Of Power rulez.....
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#175650 - 10/12/12 02:45 AM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: eddie1261]
yjoh Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 191
Loc: Australia
Hi Eddie,

It's sounds as though you are where I was a couple of years ago. I had some gear,VSTs (EQs,Compressors etc) but no real idea how to use them properly. I'd just turn knobs until it sounded ok. ( in other words, I was clueless)

Bob is right,I too needed to start studying and learn how and when to use these things so I started reading and bookmarking tons of articles on mixing etc.

I dug out the Multi Tracks that came with my PowerTracks program and started putting my new found knowledge to work, experimenting, burning CDs and playing them on everything in the house. I went and bought a cheap CD player and listened to several versions of the same mix trying to improve my listening skills.

I have a long, long way to go to, I'm still learning and making mistakes, it's going to take years to build experience.

I found this site that has a lot of really useful info to read. You might find it a helpful start. I did a screen save of their instrument frequency chart that I keep beside the computer.

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/index.php


My most recent study led me to join an online recording school not as a student attending classes but to build up a collection of instructional videos of actual mixing techniques being done by professionals. To me they are worth every cent. I have a better understanding now at least.

Keep asking questions and study. Good luck!
_________________________
yjoh

[i]Music...a joy for life.

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#175651 - 10/12/12 02:48 AM [RealBand] Re: Making "the last mix" [Re: eddie1261]
jcspro40 Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 832
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

I don't need tools. I need lessons on how to use them.




Audio Mixing Bootcamp with Bobby Owsinski

Seriously, spend the money, work thru the almost 9 hours of video using the 2 provided sessions, and you WILL have a grasp on the basics.

It is Pro Tools centered, and some folks would rather have a tutorial that uses the DAW that they use, but all the workflow's & ideas will transfer to any DAW, as long as you take the time to really work thru the course.

Yes it is expensive, but it is cheaper that going to school, and much more structured & engrossing than a book...
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