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#193750 - 02/08/13 12:18 PM [Off-Topic] Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50
Paul Haynes Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 361
Loc: United Kingdom
I've bought three sets of headphones so I can compared and keep one pair.

I've been quickly listening to a BIAB song I created and each headphone has a different tone which effect mixing. This is hard!

KRK8400 - Probably the most flat of them all. Adequate but not overpowering bass depending on what VRM speakers I select. Sounds more HiFi like but not quite as loud even on full volume, alittle distant from my ears in terms of sound projection, maybe because they sound slightly quieter?

Seinheiser HD280 - Is also quite flat with probably double the bass. The sound projection is louder and closer to my ears. Build quality feels the most plasticy but very good sound isolation.

Audio-Technica ATH-M50 - Has the most bass and don't seem so flat for mixing maybe? Feels very comfy and built well, looks cool also.

Question is how do I chose which headphones to keep because one would mix differently depending which headphones they listened too?
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BIAB 2017
Custom PC: Intel I7, 960Gb SSD, 16Gb RAM, 3x 4Tb internal HDD, 2x 4Tb External backup drives. Asus Xonar Essence Sound Card.
Recording: Studio One 4 Pro, Rode K2 + Beyerdynamic TGX80 Mics, Audiobox 22VSL, KRK VXT6 speakers, Sennheiser HD280

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#193751 - 02/08/13 12:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Paul Haynes]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
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Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
I have and can vouch for the Sennheiser. I doubt that they have that much more bass; they're just lower impedance (64 ohms) and thus very efficient--read louder. They have the greatest passive isolation of any phones I've ever encountered, about 32 dB, which makes them great for tracking and transcription. (Yup, I use studio headphones in my day job.) They have replaced my beyerdynamics (see below) in the studio. They were chosen on the basis of user comments on the Propellerhead Reason forums and the advice of the gurus at Atlanta Pro Audio. Specifically, they're very flat, just don't have the extended frequency response as those below.

For about twice the price I'd say go for the beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro. I just retired my 16-year-old pair from studio service, but I still use them eight hours a day on the job. Accurate, comfortable, durable, and with about 21 dB of isolation. Not as efficient as the 280s, but tremendous power-handling capacity, which again translates as loud if you've got the gear to drive them.

HTH,

Richard
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#193752 - 02/08/13 12:56 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Ryszard]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7955
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I like my Sennheisers. Excellent bass response.

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#193753 - 02/08/13 01:32 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Don Gaynor]
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Another member also purchased the ATH-M50.

Think they were exchanged for ATH-M40fs.

These were recommended by one of the advanced members
here.
Purchased them and have been very happy with them.
They are flat Studio headphones for mixing and mastering.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/97718-REG/Audio_Technica_ATH_M40.html

Don't have the long experience of many folks, but so happy with these.
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#193754 - 02/08/13 01:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: seeker]
Paul Haynes Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 361
Loc: United Kingdom
What advise would you give me when I turn the volume up on my headphones and find the bass is distoring? Is that a limitation of the headphones or simply I've got the bass too deep or too low and need to tweak? I ask this because Ive found swapping headphones to compare, some tracks seem to distort on some headphones more than others. It's hard to gauge whether its reaching the limitations of the headphone or not?
_________________________
BIAB 2017
Custom PC: Intel I7, 960Gb SSD, 16Gb RAM, 3x 4Tb internal HDD, 2x 4Tb External backup drives. Asus Xonar Essence Sound Card.
Recording: Studio One 4 Pro, Rode K2 + Beyerdynamic TGX80 Mics, Audiobox 22VSL, KRK VXT6 speakers, Sennheiser HD280

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#193755 - 02/08/13 02:06 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Paul Haynes]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7955
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Something that's remained unspoken: Cans are never as good as monitor speakers for mixing!

Perhaps your tracks were recorded too hot and the headphone's bass can't handle it. Maybe try backing off the bass a smidgen.

Headphones can be over-driven too.

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#193756 - 02/08/13 02:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Don Gaynor]
furry Offline
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Registered: 06/28/06
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Loc: Scottish Highlands
I have the Sennheiser 201. Excellent cans and not too much bass. I use them for my recording.
For general listening I prefer my Philips 5HP2500. Can't afford an expensive pair as they never seem to last with me. I find the Philips has a deeper tone with more bass then the Seinnheiser
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Whenever I have a problem, I just sing, Then I realize my voice is worse than my problem.

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#193757 - 02/08/13 02:23 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Paul Haynes]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

...I ask this because Ive found swapping headphones to compare, some tracks seem to distort on some headphones more than others. It's hard to gauge whether its reaching the limitations of the headphone or not?




If the same exact track is fine on one set of cans and distorts on the other without you changing anything other than the cans, it has GOT to be the particular set of headphones.


--Mac
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#193758 - 02/08/13 04:12 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Mac]
MountainSide Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1049
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
I've always found this website to have excellent reviews of headphones: http://www.headphonereviews.org/


Edited by MountainSide (02/08/13 04:20 PM)
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#193759 - 02/08/13 05:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Paul Haynes]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
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Loc: Sterling, Va
I have Sennheiser HD 380 Pro headphones. Love 'em for all purposes. Later, Ray
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#193760 - 02/08/13 05:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: raymb1]
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Paul,

To maintain a repeatable semblance of sound level standardization I do the
following. Other than setting too hi, never ran into distortion of BASS.

1. Driving an external mixer from PC.
Set the PC level for good sound level and took note of its level.

2. Also took note of external Mixer level settings and always use it.

2a. Always use same Phone level output in the external mixer.
2b. Always use same Monitor speaker level output from external mixer
driving self-powered speakers.

3. Using RealBand with K-METER VST plugin.
Shoot for about -12db recording levels. Also have peak setting on.

At same time taking note RB meter levels at end of mixing.

4. Adjust the RB miser ALL level to MAX.
5. Adjust the Output insert level one to final level combination of
K-METER and RB meter.

Do all of the mix wearing the ATH-M40fs "cans".
Do a quick listen on the monitor speakers.

Then do a "semi-final "Rendering" of wav file.
Listen carefully on the cans then the monitors.

Some number of time have had to go back and set track balances a bit better.

Do try to balance the needed track levels
using Melody track as prime, the add drums, and bass.
then go back and set other support tracks against the Melody.
Usually set Solo if used same discerned level as Melody.
All of this done before VST's being added. Then adjust levels bit more.


Reading and listening to others, a lot of the mix is subjective to a point.
Have learned a lot from other folks mixes by listening, but still miles to go.


Edited by seeker (02/08/13 05:38 PM)
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#193761 - 02/08/13 07:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: seeker]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
It is usually much harder to learn how to get a good mix using headphones than it is using a good set of nearfield monitor speakers.


--Mac
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#193762 - 02/08/13 09:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Mac]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13548
Loc: Australia
Quote:

It is usually much harder to learn how to get a good mix using headphones than it is using a good set of nearfield monitor speakers.




That's what I find, too. Headphones are good for checking a mix but speakers are way better for mixing the final product.
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#193763 - 02/08/13 11:37 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Noel96]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18958
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I was the one who preferred the M40f/s over M50
I traded the more expensive M50 for a set of M40f/s on this very site.
Don't regret it.

My monitors give pretty good representation of bass for final decisions, and the 'extended bass' of of the M50 throws my mixes off. Could just be me.
But for a reference (one that translates) the M40f/s work better for me.
This is HIGHLY a personal preference.

Again, using trusted monitors for final decision is important, but having a set of headphones you 'know' and can easily adapt to is helpful also.
You don't know what works best for you until you try them.
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#193764 - 02/09/13 12:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: rharv]
Tommyc Offline
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Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2750
I use the Audio-Technica ATH-M50's at Church as Monitors when I play guitar. I use some Sennheiser HD 380 PROs (they seem to cut out the live band enough to get a recording level)at Church when I record their band and podcast. At home I use some really cheap Sony MDR-XD200s just to see if the Bass is overwhelming and check panning.

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#193765 - 02/09/13 02:22 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Tommyc]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13548
Loc: Australia
For what it's worth, I use the Audio Technica ATH M30. These were recommended to me by Fett, a producer in Nashville.
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#193766 - 02/09/13 03:02 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Noel96]
gibson Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 3069
Loc: wales
PaulH
I have 3 thoughts as you have already bought 3 'phones and need to decide which you feel is the best for yourself.
One thought is to keep all three and use them for reference. Just as listening to the music through different speakers ie in the car, the hi-fi etc. Also get some "in ear" buds as well

the next is to listen to The Virtual Haircut with the 'phones on and your eyes closed and then decide which headphone is "more realistic"

The 3rd is to listen to a reference track that is closest to the style of music and sound you wish to have in your songs. Listen through the 3 headphones and decide yourself which sounds the best.

I have some really old Beyer dynamic DT100's if that is what they were called 20 years ago. Everything is a bit worn but are the best closed 'phones I have had apart from some "Ministry of Sounds" I got given a while back. No leakage with either when doing vocals.

Alyn
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#193767 - 02/09/13 06:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: gibson]
Paul Haynes Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 361
Loc: United Kingdom
Well so far I've been taken with the Seinheiser HD280. They seem the most lively and have a good bass and mid range. They sound the most "live" out of all three of them. However they seem the cheapest made headphones out of all of them. The Audio-Technica ATH-M50 seem the best made in terms of feel and comfort whilst the KRK 8400 are the most flat of all of them. so I think I will keep the HD280 as I can't afford to keep all three.

I'm loving being able to add vocals and guitar to my mix although recording ones self sing reveals alot about your singing. I have never had a strong voice and my pitch is not perfect.

Thanks for all posts. Very helpful.


Paul
_________________________
BIAB 2017
Custom PC: Intel I7, 960Gb SSD, 16Gb RAM, 3x 4Tb internal HDD, 2x 4Tb External backup drives. Asus Xonar Essence Sound Card.
Recording: Studio One 4 Pro, Rode K2 + Beyerdynamic TGX80 Mics, Audiobox 22VSL, KRK VXT6 speakers, Sennheiser HD280

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#193768 - 02/09/13 06:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Which Headphones, KRK8400, Seinheiser HD280 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50 [Re: Paul Haynes]
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Quote:

I'm loving being able to add vocals and guitar to my mix although recording ones self sing reveals alot about your singing. I have never had a strong voice and my pitch is not perfect.




I have been singing since 2007 and I am finally getting to the place where my lead vocal lines are mostly in pitch. I don't think I have the greatest of ears, so it has taken me awhile to get there. The harmony stuff is still hit and miss, though but it is improving. I am more apt (finally) to use melodyne or auto-tune on a harmony line, though. The listening crowd deserves to hear mostly in-tune vocals (ha, ha).
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