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#208472 - 07/03/13 04:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: jazzmammal]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
If I was to take the time to scan each chart, I'd also take the time to listen to each song. But that's me. I'm not as brave as others wink

But, there is more than one right way to do almost everything.


I would never ever load up a Biab song that I hadn't already listened to and tweaked at home first. Ever.

Bob


Seriously though, why not?

If one has all the styles loaded, and the FakeBooks/selected styles are accurate to the charts..I really cannot see the problem...especially as the only parts I have playing are drums and bass..

Dennis

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#208475 - 07/03/13 04:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Likely that those who wouldn't take the chance aren't doing Jazz.
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#208486 - 07/03/13 05:32 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: joden]
raymb1 Offline
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Loc: Sterling, Va
The problem with fake book chords is that a lot of them are wrong or not what the name players play. Listen to Herbie and Miles on "All of You", Bill Evans on the same song. Check out Chick on "How Deep Is The Ocean". The fake book chords just don't cut it. I have at least a couple of thousand tunes in BIAB and iRealb that I use on gigs and most of the chords have been changed from the stock ones to better ones. Just my 2 cents worth. Later, Ray
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#208488 - 07/03/13 06:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
Matt Finley Offline
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I remember reading a book by pianist Dick Hyman in the late 1960s that had the 'real' chords written over the 'standard' fake book chords. Ever since I saw that, I take most fakebooks with some skepticism.
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#208490 - 07/03/13 06:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
Mac Offline
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Then there's fools like me who know the fakebook chords pretty much, also know the real chords as personally transcribed from the recordings - and are very likely to substitute their own favorites from time to time.

One of my pet peeves are those who spend their time arguing over which chord is "right" -- in a jazz tune.


--Mac
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#208491 - 07/03/13 06:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Mac]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: Mac
........One of my pet peeves are those who spend their time arguing over which chord is "right" -- in a jazz tune.


--Mac


+1

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#208492 - 07/03/13 06:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: raymb1]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: raymb1
The problem with fake book chords is that a lot of them are wrong or not what the name players play. Listen to Herbie and Miles on "All of You", Bill Evans on the same song. Check out Chick on "How Deep Is The Ocean". The fake book chords just don't cut it. I have at least a couple of thousand tunes in BIAB and iRealb that I use on gigs and most of the chords have been changed from the stock ones to better ones. Just my 2 cents worth. Later, Ray


Yep I hear what you are saying Ray...

But the whole point here is that the FakeBook disks Nortons have produced are a chord for chord transcription of EXACTLY what is in the legal Real Book being used. So if one opens to any tune in the RealBook, then loads the tune from the Nortons folder, they will match. Simple as that.

If a chord is "wrong" then both are "wrong" wink at the same time, so no problemo hey smile

Dennis

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#208498 - 07/03/13 07:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2464
Loc: Sterling, Va
If Norton's files are BIAB files, then the chords can be changed to the preferred ones. When I hear other musicians play, it's easy to hear whether they're playing stock chords or better sounding ones. I work with a piano, vocal, bass and drums quartet. I have a bass book, with better chords written out for all our tunes. If we have a request not in our book, chances are that it's in iRealb. iRealb by the way has chords that are a step above those in the fake books. When I talk about preferred chords, it's because they make a song sound better. We should all want a song to sound better. I'm not talking about subbing chords just to be subbing. Of all the good players I've heard around the D.C. area, I've never heard any of them play the fake book chords. For example, the song "But Beautiful", is written: GMaj9///| Bm7b5/E7/ }. If you add a C13(+11) on the third and fourth beat of the first bar it sounds much better. Later, Ray

P.S. Most of the bassists I work are so knowledgeable that if they're reading fake book chords they automatically play the better sounding ones.


Edited by raymb1 (07/03/13 07:54 PM)
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#208502 - 07/03/13 09:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: raymb1]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: raymb1
........ iRealb by the way has chords that are a step above those in the fake books. When I talk about preferred chords, it's because they make a song sound better.


hmmm I tend to respectfully disagree smile - I also own iRealBook and a lot of the progs are per FBs, some are a little different as they are posted by owners and members of the forum, and a LOT use the same subs that the players used. Check some of the Bill Evans chord subs in some of the books and you will see what I mean.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your post though Ray smile I have a similar philosophy, except I tend to make changes on the fly, which are different (slightly) from one play through to the next..and also quite different to the book...but still following similar root patterns. It is more about embellishment for me rather than wholesale changes.

Dennis

PS: re your PS - the bass players I play with don't play chords wink laugh

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#208504 - 07/03/13 09:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: joden]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6368
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Woah guys, I never said I wouldn't do any tune in the world if someone laid a fifty on me. Damn straight I would. Anybody remember the old Steve Allen bit called Stump the Band? Nobody in the audience ever called a real song, oh no it was some completely unknown thing Aunt Hazel wrote at little Joe's birthday party 20 ago so what did Steverino do? He would have the person sing part of the song and then everything got turned into an ice cream changes old 50's tune. I've done that before and would not hesitate to do it again for real dough.

All I was saying is I don't trust computers and Biab in the middle of a gig pulling up a song I had never tried out before. I said I would fake it on piano if I had to and for fifty bucks I would just have to wouldn't I? Believe me I would come up with something.

Bob
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#208505 - 07/03/13 09:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
joden Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
And in any case - these Nortons books are ONLY so I can improve the request side of gigs. I mean I can do any request as solo piano form any of the books (within my abilities) of course, but having the tune ready in combo form, just makes it a tad better for the requester - maybe a few extra cents in the jar smile

Any of the tunes I am gong to be doing on a regular basis I will have my own preferred chart, style and turnarounds all preset.

Dennis

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#208506 - 07/03/13 09:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: jazzmammal]
joden Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Woah guys, I never said I wouldn't do any tune in the world if someone laid a fifty on me. Damn straight I would. Anybody remember the old Steve Allen bit called Stump the Band? Nobody in the audience ever called a real song, oh no it was some completely unknown thing Aunt Hazel wrote at little Joe's birthday party 20 ago so what did Steverino do? Everything got turned into an ice cream changes old 50's tune. I've done that before and would not hesitate to do it again for real dough.

All I was saying is I don't trust computers and Biab in the middle of a gig pulling up a song I had never tried out before. I said I would fake it on piano if I had to and for fifty bucks I would just have to wouldn't I? Believe me I would come up with something.

Bob


laugh all good Bob ...I sorta figured you would wink

I must admit to being a bit iffy re PC's live myself. But it is a "needs must" . I want the superb VSTi sound, that you simply cannot get with hardware keyboards (apart from the REAL instrument that is)

So as I am forced to use a PC, I am trying to exploit it to the full potential.

Dennis

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#208507 - 07/03/13 09:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Michael Schnell]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
"We thank you all for your requests - but we already have our show planned!" --Dizzy Gillespie
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#208513 - 07/03/13 10:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: Mac]
joden Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: Mac
"We thank you all for your requests - but we already have our show planned!" --Dizzy Gillespie


laugh

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#208514 - 07/03/13 10:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BiaB and RealBook [Re: joden]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2464
Loc: Sterling, Va
I Real Book is a different app than iRealb. I wouldn't pay $1.00 for I Real Book. iRealb is an app for I pad and android. Much more sophisticated than I Real Book. In some other forums, I Real Book is called a waste of money. Check out iRealb. I believe it still costs around $10.00. Great practice app and good to use on gigs also. Later, Ray
I Real Book was discussed here BIAB a year or two ago and deemed pretty much a rip-off.

http://www.irealb.com/


Edited by raymb1 (07/03/13 11:26 PM)
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