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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 01/31/14 03:39 PM.
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? 
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? how do you know I haven't? 
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? how do you know I haven't? Just a guess, Bugsey. Which part of the city did you live in? Vedado? Miramar? La Lisa?
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Check that list I posted above again and recount. I even numbered them for you. There are 23 different nations on that list. Not "two". And that list is by no means inclusive of all communist regimes the world has seen. Your arguments are simply not based on facts. At least, not this one. --Mac
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kinda like you are doing with Pete Seeger?
This makes no sense as argument either. Beginning to think that within your mind, the shortest distance between two points must be a maze. You are attempting to defend the indefensible.
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? how do you know I haven't? Just a guess, Bugsey. Which part of the city did you live in? Vedado? Miramar? La Lisa? keep guessin', Chuckles! 
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Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? Good answer, clearly heard because, after all, it is delivered at 90dB over. Um, be sure and take yer own toilet paper with you, that is, if they let you bring it in.
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[ Why don't you try living in Havana for a few years, then tell me what you think of communism? [/quote] how do you know I haven't? [/quote] Just a guess, Bugsey. Which part of the city did you live in? Vedado? Miramar? La Lisa? [/quote] keep guessin', Chuckles! [/quote] Just as I thought Bugsey. 
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Hey, we could take up a collection to buy a ticket to send him back. Big savings, the way he spouts off we would not have to pay for a round-trip ticket...
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I guess a better example would be your conclusion that communism is evil/bad/failed/etc. because of the actions of two dictators, Stalin and Mao. Check that list I posted above again and recount. I even numbered them for you. There are 23 different nations on that list. Not "two". And that list is by no means inclusive of all communist regimes the world has seen. Your arguments are simply not based on facts. At least, not this one. --Mac Mac, no one in this thread that I ever saw was defending Stalin or Mao or other evil leaders who inflicted great harm upon their own people. The thread started out as a simple acknowledgment that an iconic American folk singer/songwriter had passed away but you dragged ideology into it. And here we are! My opinion, plain and simple, is communism as an ideology has definite merits and failings as does capitalism and others. The most obvious examples of modern-day communism (which in fact were not run as true communist societies) were horribly failed and resulted in the death and suffering of many people. The most obvious examples of modern-day capitalism's failures is the banking crisis and income inequality we experience in the USofA. I do not see things as black & white. This good. That bad. Rather, I see the pros and cons of all sides. Would I rather live in the USA than in communist China? Of course! But would I like to see our system improved to stop favoring the wealthy and instead focus some of the wealth and opportunity on the common man? Hell yeah! Being pure anything is usually bad!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 01/31/14 05:11 PM.
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[Just as I thought Bugsey. surprised you had one Chuckles!
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Hey, we could take up a collection to buy a ticket to send him back. Big savings, the way he spouts off we would not have to pay for a round-trip ticket... really intelligent addition to the conversation Mac! let's see where have I heard that one before? oh yeah, growin' up in the racist south!
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Hey, we could take up a collection to buy a ticket to send him back. Big savings, the way he spouts off we would not have to pay for a round-trip ticket... really intelligent addition to the conversation Mac! let's see where have I heard that one before? oh yeah, growin' up in the racist south! OMG. That's priceless! Step back, people. 
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John,
Saying that communism has a few good ideas in it is kind of like saying that a psychopathic serial killer is evil, ... but he makes a really good lasagna.
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John,
Saying that communism has a few good ideas in it is kind of like saying that a psychopathic serial killer is evil, ... but he makes a really good lasagna. Bob, if you are referring to the implementations of it like Mac listed then I'd agree. in those cases there was very little or nothing good about them. but I don't think that is the kind of communist Pete Seeger was. I think he was more focused on the common man and how the government, natural resources, etc. should be there for the benefit of the people and not a handful of wealthy folks and their corporations. and for those ideals, I agree with him! I am not anti-capitalist...I actually enjoy lots about capitalism but left unchecked it is just as heartless and soulless as communism. and in recent times we have allowed it to run unchecked in a lot of ways.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 01/31/14 06:14 PM.
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John,
I believe you’re missing the point on capitalism. When a rich man/corporation opens a new factory/coal mine they provide jobs which in turn provides housing/food/healthcare/etc. to the community.
The less the government is involved, the better the situation becomes. I’m not naïve so I don’t think corporations can operate without some regulations regarding safety and the environment, but I don’t think the government should be micromanaging companies out of business.
When businesses thrive, the community thrives. I hate to use clichés, but “a rising tide lifts all boats”.
Communism sucks.
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In all fairness, I think Bugsey has a point. There are a lot of opportunities for entrepreneurs in communist countries. I have a friend in Miami who started a lucrative ambulance service in Havana. 
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Bob, if you are referring to the implementations of it like Mac listed then I'd agree. in those cases there was very little or nothing good about them.
So then you can point out some cases where a communist country's "implementation" was or is not a failure? Please do. --Mac
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John,
I believe you’re missing the point on capitalism. When a rich man/corporation opens a new factory/coal mine they provide jobs which in turn provides housing/food/healthcare/etc. to the community.
The less the government is involved, the better the situation becomes. I’m not naïve so I don’t think corporations can operate without some regulations regarding safety and the environment, but I don’t think the government should be micromanaging companies out of business.
When businesses thrive, the community thrives. I hate to use clichés, but “a rising tide lifts all boats”.
Communism sucks.
Bob, it may not be me missing the point! As I said there are certainly merits to capitalism but it has no heart or soul and requires strong governmental oversight. I know you agree with that. What we may disagree with is what level that oversight should be. Classic case in point is the recent massive chemical spillage in West Virginia. I would argue that a LOT more governmental oversight should have happened there. And the company and owner will be filing for bankruptcy and likely not spend a day in jail. While an average citizen is not allowed to default on a student loan! I get all of the tired old Reaganisms about capitalism and some have truth to them but we have reached a point where companies pay low taxes, outsource jobs overseas and pollute and the benefits that are supposed to trickle down do not!
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