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I settled for the Steinberg ur22, and it works great, now I want to invest in monitors at a somewhat low price tag. I went to Guitar Center in Milwaukee, 72 miles one way for a monitor review in house. I was at the start leaning towards the KRK rokits, they were good as the first button push, then it was the new JBL LSR series, they sounded like tin cans, the third I don't remember, fourth was the Tonnoy new Reveal series, they were great. Behringer truth were next, also ok. Then the Focal Alpha series, which is not in stock yet, also very good, $299.99 each. I would like some input on the choice of monitors that do not go over the $300.00 each category. My space is about 10ft x 10ft, I don't need a 8 inch woofer but your input would be helpful, also I need a front bass port because of a corner on the left and a very close to wall spot on the right side. I hope this helps in the responses. Thanks
Critter
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If you could stretch your budget a bit, you might want to look at the Event 20/20's. Excellent near fields. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2020BAS/Regards, Bob
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Auditioning monitors in the store is a crap shoot at best due to the listening environment. Research the reviews of the ones your interested in and then buy the ones that offer the best reviews for the price range your interested in. Save the packaging and receipts and return them if your not completely satisfied and get a different brand.
I do have the KRK Rockit 5's and I like them. Keep in mind that your studio setup (desk, position of your ears and the monitors, sound absorption) will all affect the sound of the monitors. You tube reviews are really bad at determining the sound of the monitors also. You will never get the monitors true sound reproduction through the video or your computer speakers. You are left with the reviewers word on the matter.
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Or, you could try to find a pair of these. A bit out of your price range, though. 
Last edited by 90 dB; 07/05/14 03:09 AM.
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Critter, I went with the same decision process about a year ago. Although I don't do any super critical pro level mixing, I do have the same corner mount room dynamics as you. I went with the KRK 8's for the extra frequency response. I really have come to appreciate the bi-amped setup, front port, the many connector options on the back, the volume adjustments and the HF level adjustment to tweak the monitors to my room environment. Sound wise, must admit, they are not as clean as the VXT 8's especially the mid-range, but for $350 less each, I think that they are really well built entry level monitors that produce excellent results.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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A bit out of your price range, though. Apparently so are these now. The last run of this model has doubled in price in a year. Early models had a problem, so unless you get the last run, I don't recommend getting used. I think I got mine for around $450 a couple years ago right after they manufactured this last run (just luck; I had to wait for the next run when I ordered). They were a great deal. http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-130-Watt-Bi-Amplified-Monitor/dp/B001AX7BY4But really?? A grand now?!
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I'm pleased with my KRK Rokit 5's. Interestingly if I get the bass right with them in the mix then the low end still sounds fine when listening through a much bigger system. Small and reasonable price first attracted me to them.
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A bit out of your price range, though. Apparently so are these now. The last run of this model has doubled in price in a year. Early models had a problem, so unless you get the last run, I don't recommend getting used. I think I got mine for around $450 a couple years ago right after they manufactured this last run (just luck; I had to wait for the next run when I ordered). They were a great deal. http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-130-Watt-Bi-Amplified-Monitor/dp/B001AX7BY4But really?? A grand now?! The prices on some of this stuff are insane. Look at what they're asking for a pair of NS-10's! These days, there is a fantastic selection of good near-fields available at good prices. I love my Events, but I still check mixes on my little secret weapons, my Optimus Pro-7's. If you can get a mix to sound good on these, it will translate anywhere. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Optimus-Pro-7AV-speakers-in-very-good-condition/111373848338?_trksid=p0.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23346%26meid%3D8051245865801734966%26pid%3D100204%26prg%3D9919%26rk%3D14%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D351107982733 And the Optimus are a lot cheaper than these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M...opyxJxSIKvw_wcB
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Critter, I've been using the Behringer Truth B2031A active biamped two-way monitors since 2007 and couldn't be more pleased. These do have the 8-inch woofs and cost considerably more than they did back then, so they are overkill for you in more ways than one. Check out Don G.'s suggestion and see what you think. Do remember that speaks in this range have a hard cutoff at the low end, mine at 50 Hz--they simply don't reproduce anything below that point. If you deal with bass at all you will need to find a way to address this. I did it with a JBL sub and Beyerdynamic DT 770 cans; how you do it will depend on your budget and living arrangements.
HTH,
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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The prices on some of this stuff are insane. Look at what they're asking for a pair of NS-10's! These days, there is a fantastic selection of good near-fields available at good prices.
I love my Events, but I still check mixes on my little secret weapons, my Optimus Pro-7's. If you can get a mix to sound good on these, it will translate anywhere.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Optimus-Pro-7AV-speakers-in-very-good-condition/111373848338?_trksid=p0.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23346%26meid%3D8051245865801734966%26pid%3D100204%26prg%3D9919%26rk%3D14%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D351107982733
And the Optimus are a lot cheaper than these: ...
There's a little confusion on the 'Pro' vs regular version in the link. I think the product description is for a different speaker than the listing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are the ones I'm thinking of they are not 'floor standing' speakers .. nor have a 100 watt sub, etc. If you mean the Minimus type model; I still have a pair of the 'Minnie Mouse' speakers (RS Minimus). Plannin' to keep them too. They are indeed a good way to check a mix for some aspects.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Bob,
I just checked M-Audio's website, and there is no BX8A, however, there is a BX8 D2, which are $499 a pair. Also, all the listings for the BX8A were from Japan, so I don't know.
Critter, I have two pair of Rokit RP-5, a Gen 1 and Gen 2 pair. I like the Gen 2 slightly better. I did have a failure with one of the Gen 1 units awhile ago, a capacitor went bad. I replaced it (it's been several years now) and the unit continues to function well for me.
If you could afford the Tannoys or even the KRK VX series, I would say go with them, but I think the Rokit RP5s are a good choice, and are my go to recommendation.
What I would recommend, though, would be to spend the extra $100, and purchase the Rokit 6s, or if you want to spend a total of $500, get the Rokit 8s.
My two cents, for what it's worth.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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A friend of mine just bought Presonus Sceptre 6s. They are amazing. The list about $700 each, but on ebay, the had used ones listed at $369 each. If you click on that ad, there is a store with an 800 number. I called, and they sell them new for $399 each which is an incredible price. When I have the space, I will jump on that deal. A little higher than you're looking at but probably worth the extra $. Just a thought. Take care. Greg
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Critter,
I must say that I am shocked to read you saying that the JBL LSR305's sounded like "tin cans". I was thinking of getting some because they've got the best reviews of any monitors in their price range that I've researched - and when I research believe me - I research...
Now you've blown my mind. Of course that doesn't take much LOL! But seriously....tin cans???
Josie
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Josie, and Critter,
Studio Monitors are one of the most subjective 'hard' objects in musical recording. What I mean by that is this; you can look up all the specs you want, listen to all the reviews you want, talk to people that you want to who have their own experience with monitors, and you may hate the sound.
I work for a company that makes Digital Audio Converters. We make some of the best on the market. In a dollar to sound reproduction ratio, I think we are the clear winners, meaning that you will get the most accurate reproduction or recording of whatever sound you put into the converter versus anyone else at the same price point.
But, one of the biggest issues that we have as a small company is that people don't really know what they are listening to. I could record a Steinway Grand Piano in a concert hall with two mics, and the present it to you in three forms, a.) unaltered, b.) with a small amount of harmonic distortion, and c.) louder, and you would probably pick 'B' or 'C' as the better sounding. Why? Because most people do not know what a properly mic'd piano in a concert hall really sounds like. Oh, they can get a Classical Recording and listen all the they want, but if the conversion process from analog to digital, either recording directly, or taken from old analog tapes, isn't the absolute best performed on good gear, you're going to hear something that's not there. Furthermore, before it gets to your ears, it goes through a recording and Mastering Engineer, who understands what it's SUPPOSED to sound like, but is also concerned about what WILL SELL THE MOST ALBUMS. If you have a recording that is accurate, but sounds thin and gutless, or you have a nice 'warm' recording that has so much harmonic distortion, overtones, and stuff that's not even there, which do you think is going to sell more?
The absolute best way to check studio monitors is to do it in person at your local music store, with source material that you've recorded. A single instrument, a vocal and a single instrument all the way up to a full blown recording with multiple tracks and vocals with effects processing added in. All of these tracks will give you the best feel for what you're hearing, because you KNOW what it's supposed to sound like. If you're a singer and you can't hear your own voice, take someone with you who can listen to the monitors and say Yay or Nay on how realistic they are.
Everything from your vocals or your fingertips, to the microphones, to the mixer, to the A/D and D/A Converters to the monitors are in the chain, but the monitors are where it all comes together. If everything else is good and decent quality, then the monitors are where things are going to get messed up, and where your recording chain will let you down. If your monitors are good, accurate and you like the sound, and they really DO sound like what you're putting into your recording chain, then get them.
Now, I just did an impromptu hearing test the other day, and at 0dBFS, my hearing dies out around 11.5-12KHz. So, I may not hear the highs accurately, but you younger folks should hear them well enough to be able to decide what the best monitors for your budget and price point are.
Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 07/04/14 08:50 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Sorry about that but When I went into Guitar Center I was pretty much set on KRK Rockit 5, for my cd choice for what I used to use for setting up PA for a band was Molly Hatchet song, "Dreams" it has all the highs lows and all in between. First was the KRK 5, second was LSR 305, third I don't remember, fourth was the Tonney reveal, and assorted others. At first the KRK sounded great, then he switched to the JBL 305 and it was all high end and reminded me of the old piezo tweeters from long ago. The Tonney sounded the best all around, but after looking in depth, like you they are not a good choice. So now here I am still looking for a good pair. Now looking into Presonus Eris 5 and 8, Focal Alpha 50, and Yamaha MSP 5, these only because in my situation I need front bass porting. Hope this helps.
Steve
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"JBL 305 and it was all high end and reminded me of the old piezo tweeters from long ago." The LSR305 has HF and LF trim controls. I'm guessing that the "expert" at Guitar Satan had them set up improperly (like - backwards  ). Just a guess, although a GS expert "tested" a pair of my PA speaker tweeters with a 9-volt battery last week, and probably blew them up. You test woofers with a 9-V, not tweeters. The KRKs are good speakers, but the JBLs are getting some killer reviews. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305/reviews
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I think Gary makes a lot of good points. What does one want from their monitors? I remember seeing a rep demoing Event 20/20s and saying "And this was mixed through these monitors", trying to impress everyone. The speakers sounded very good, but all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through. The big question is: What will the mix sound like on other people's systems, or in cars? A friend of mine who reads a lot about these things (he owns a music store) read that most engineers rely on NS-10s. I've heard some mixes that sound like garbage on those monitors. Some people say, if you can get a decent mix on NS-10s, it will sound great on anything else. My best advice is to listen on as many systems as you can. That said, I rely on Sennheiser cans and then listen on computer speakers and in my car. I hope to get a quality playback system someday. Hope someone finds something useful in this perspective. Take care. Greg
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"I think Gary makes a lot of good points. What does one want from their monitors? I remember seeing a rep demoing Event 20/20s and saying "And this was mixed through these monitors", trying to impress everyone. The speakers sounded very good, but all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through." What, exactly, does that mean? "all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through" The speakers 'sounded very good', because they are very good speakers. Mixes done on them translate. They are not Genelecs, or Meyers, but they translate. How much do you want to spend on a song that probably shouldn't have been recorded in the first place?
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I know that it's all relevant stuff above, and I know it all depends on the users ears, etc. but I have to get whatever I decide from Sweetwater, have the Sweetwater credit card, and can string payments out for 24 months, I just want to get one pair and not have to keep sending them back for the next ones. That's why I keep looking at every option, yes Guitar Center is what it is but at least I could hear what I think was ten different monitors. Credit cards are nice but I don't want huge payments or the whole 24 months to pay thing. For my final thoughts on what to get are: Presonus Eris series, Focal Alpha Series, (New), Yamaha MSP series, all front ported, any thoughts on these.........Thanks
Critter
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"I think Gary makes a lot of good points. What does one want from their monitors? I remember seeing a rep demoing Event 20/20s and saying "And this was mixed through these monitors", trying to impress everyone. The speakers sounded very good, but all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through." What, exactly, does that mean? "all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through" The speakers 'sounded very good', because they are very good speakers. Mixes done on them translate. They are not Genelecs, or Meyers, but they translate. How much do you want to spend on a song that probably shouldn't have been recorded in the first place? The old computer axiom, GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out. Remember, the monitors are only one part of the chain. You can have great monitors, but if you can't mix worth a dime, then no matter what speakers you put them through, they're going to sound like crap. When I first read "And this was mixed through these monitors", trying to impress everyone. The speakers sounded very good, but all mixes should sound their best on the monitors they were mixed through." I got the impression that the mix wasn't very impressive. So, poor sounds, poor mixing or recording, best monitors in the world still equates to a poor mix and a poor song. A GOOD mix engineer can do wonders for a mediocre song, a mediocre mix engineer can destroy the most well recorded tracks. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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“A GOOD mix engineer can do wonders for a mediocre song, a mediocre mix engineer can destroy the most well recorded tracks.” Actually, even a great mix engineer can't do anything for a mediocre song. It will just be a mediocre song that sounds better. A great song can overcome the shortcomings of a mediocre mix engineer. Plenty of examples of this phenomenon. “Remember, the monitors are only one part of the chain. You can have great monitors, but if you can't mix worth a dime, then no matter what speakers you put them through, they're going to sound like crap.” Thanks for the tip. I've only been recording for 35 years, so I appreciate the benefit of your expertise.
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Monitors for studio use are supposed to be flat but any listen side by side will tell you that they are not.
Here's the interesting thing. Critter called the JBL's "tin cans" .... compared to the others. We tend to like the music to fit what we think it should sound like. In many cases that equates to biased frequencies and not anywhere close to flat.
Perhaps the JBL's were in fact telling the "truth" in that room and with that particular music. Flat to most people isn't appealing. But as recording and mix engineers, you want FLAT.
I read somewhere that a certain major studio and engineer had a single NS-10 on the shelf that he used in the mixing stages. It sounded like crap since the mix was also in mono. But the goal was to hear the truth of the mix not for ear candy in the studio. His recordings and mixes were stellar.
Too often, a huge beginner mistake is to choose studio speakers that sound good (ear candy) and then the person wonders why their mixes never translate to the other systems very well.... car, stereo, etc....
Mixing on biased speakers gives you a disadvantage from the start. Oh sure, the mix sounds really sweet in the studio... YOUR STUDIO, but every other place the bass is too strong or too weak, the mids are too prominent or not enough, the highs will shatter glass or sound like they are under a wet blanket....and it comes from ear candy monitoring.
There is a solution, and probably the best is to learn the speakers you are using. ARC is also a handy fix to one degree or another. Mix at lower volumes as well.
My advice on choosing monitors is to get some that you DO like the sound from, and then learn their strengths and weaknesses. That's an essential part to getting a good mix on any monitors. I also suggest using a sub especially if you have 5" cones. A sub will help 8" cones as well. Again, learn the system with the sub and get it set up properly and balanced. There's nothing wrong with ear candy in the studio as long as the folks listing on the other systems can also get that "ear candy" experience.
Pick up a copy of Mike Seniors Mixing Secrets for the small studio. The first several chapters are specifically on speakers and sound in the small studio because, lacking good speakers, and/or not understanding the ones you currently have.... NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/06/14 06:36 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Too often, a huge beginner mistake is to choose studio speakers that sound good (ear candy) and then the person wonders why their mixes never translate to the other systems very well.... car, stereo, etc....
There is a solution, and probably the best is to learn the speakers you are using. Mix at lower volumes as well. IMO....see above. I downsized a couple years ago for several reasons. I used my trusty JBL4410's for 19 years and they are still stellar monitors....just didn't fit my 'downsizing' goal anymore. Given the total subjectivity (previously mentioned) of monitor choice I was back at the crossroads of what to choose now? I went to GC which was only a mile away. In the store I listened to the Events, Behringer Truths, one other I can't recall now and the KRK Rockit 8's. With confidence, to my ears, I went with the KRK's 8's (249 each) which had a noticeably more even sound over the spectrum and a smoother bass response (bass - front ported). I wanted the 8's to push more air with less effort and feel there is a better presence of the music compared to using 5.5's. I put on my own CD and the translation was perfect....for my ears, in my recording environ. As also touched on previously, garbage in-garbage out. I'm not one to leave a track as is thinking I'll fix it in the mix. I do the track over. Carry on...
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 07/06/14 10:40 AM.
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Okay, I've been doing a lot of overtime on this, Sweetwater is not going to carry the Focal alpha 50, that was my choice. That !@#%^&& me off, but what can you do. Now back to the selection, KRK rokit 5, Presonus Eris 5, Rokit 6, or Yamaha MSP 5. Take a poll and give the thumbs up to one of these. Thanks again for the input........
Critter
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freq specs and amp power tell me the rockits (maybe the Yamahas if there were some other compelling reason), but I ain't heard these side by side.
Chances of your poll being accurate is off. We'd need to hear them all. Nevertheless I figured I'd point that one detail out. Presonus being 70Hz and above would be disconcerting to me. I'd assume I needed a sub. Otherwise I may be missing a lot.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Spent a day......and came up with a must I say it, more money choice, that would be the Event 20/20 BAS, and I think that would be a good choice. Sweetwater said they will have the Focal Alpha 50, price point between the two is the same, $299.99 per speaker each, 5 inch woofer in the Focal and 7.1 in the Event. Any thoughts on those two? Thanks
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Side by side with all the other big brand names..... I chose the Mackie MR-5 speakers. $300 for the pair at the time.
To my ears, in that room, in an A/B comparison, they sounded the best.
I have since added a nice sub to the studio line up.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Spent a day......and came up with a must I say it, more money choice, that would be the Event 20/20 BAS, and I think that would be a good choice. Sweetwater said they will have the Focal Alpha 50, price point between the two is the same, $299.99 per speaker each, 5 inch woofer in the Focal and 7.1 in the Event. Any thoughts on those two? Thanks Between those two - no contest. As I mentioned before, I have the original passive version of the Events. They are incredible near fields.
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I found a website called sonicsense.com which has side by side tests of speakers, if you are interested check it out. They have on the website a way you can also download the tests from soundcloud.com at I think is 44.1 16 and or 24 bits and you can test out the results on your own equipment. I'm sure some of you know of this site but just thought I would throw it out there.
Critter
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The fact of the matter is that people are using every single brand and model of studio speaker ever made with success.
Of course we all like to think that we have the ultimate best speaker ever made when we decide to lay down our hard earned cash, but that's simply not true.
Every speaker, from the cheapest bottom of the line to the most costly top of the line will have strengths and weaknesses and unless you know and understand those aspects, the quality of the speakers won't matter much to your mixing.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again..... pick a brand and model and learn them. Don't fret that you don't have the best.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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pick a brand and model and learn them. Don't fret that you don't have the best. IMO....see above....end of story. 
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You might also consider looking at the Focusrite VRM (Virtual Reference Monitor), which can simulate a number of monitors. I appears as out of stock my most retailer (not sure why, I've emailed Sweetwater to find out), but I see that it's still available at the Best Buy website for half price. Edit: Sweetwater verified Focusrite VRM is discontinued.  I've got it, and it makes it easy to "try out" the mix on a wide variety of speaker systems. Sadly "car" isn't one of them. In particular, it lets me see how badly a mix that sounds good on one set of speakers may sound on another set.
Last edited by dcuny; 07/09/14 12:48 PM. Reason: Got a response from Sweetwater
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You might also consider looking at the Focusrite VRM (Virtual Reference Monitor), which can simulate a number of monitors. I appears as out of stock my most retailer (not sure why, I've emailed Sweetwater to find out), but I see that it's still available at the Best Buy website for half price. Edit: Sweetwater verified Focusrite VRM is discontinued. I've got it, and it makes it easy to "try out" the mix on a wide variety of speaker systems. Sadly "car" isn't one of them. In particular, it lets me see how badly a mix that sounds good on one set of speakers may sound on another set. Here's a possible reason I believe that this product died: If I'm not mistaken, it's a USB audio device. If you are using a USB audio/midi interface, most DAW software can only play nice with one USB audio device at a time. This capability came in the Saffire Pro 24 DSP device as well. Just found a Sound on Sound review confirming some suspicion of USB havoc, and a rather complicated workaround: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr11/articles/focusrite-vrmbox.htmDave, how do you use your VRM box?
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Dave, how do you use your VRM box? I used it to test my mix in Reaper via headphones. I haven't touched the S/PDIF port at all. I was getting a mix I thought was good, and then taking a CD out to my car and having it sound terrible. The VRM Box helped cut that cycle down. I still wish it had a "car stereo" simulator - that's the one simulated space that seems a no-brainer.
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"a "car stereo" simulator - that's the one simulated space that seems a no-brainer"
I would disagree with that. Once you start simulating a car it becomes *which* car dilemma (and exponential variables).
Honda with Alpine? Cruze with stock? LE or EX model?? (could be different radio and speaker specs)
I wouldn't want to touch it. Not only are you trying to simulate speaker response you'd be trying to emulate environment. And making an 8X8 room sound like a car interior would be much different than a 12X16 room, and much different than headphones .. nope, not so easy as it sounds at first.
Just my thoughts/opinion.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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.. nope, not so easy as it sounds at first. Sorry, I meant no brainer as an option, not as in "easy to do." Hopefully having run through a series of different speakers, the mix should translate well. If you were simulating a car, you'd also need "freeway noise", "busted muffler" and "arguing children in the back" options as well. After I got an email from Sweetwater saying the VRM Box was discontinued, I got an email from Focusrite technical support saying that it not discontinued. Now I'm really confused... 
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After I got an email from Sweetwater saying the VRM Box was discontinued, I got an email from Focusrite technical support saying that it not discontinued. Now I'm really confused... Dave, This company, Sonic Sense, in Denver buys direct from Focusrite's US distributor. My Scarlett 18i8 that I bought through them came directly to my house from the distributor. Sometimes they sell stuff used that they take back on return. If you want another, give them a call. http://www.sonicsense.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=vrmNote, that the VRM box does not show up in their listing. It is current on Focusrite's site. No other US based online retailers have it available from what I can tell. Here's an alternative way to simulate different speaker playback over headphones: http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/ The guy who programmed this plugin is a DSP genius - you likely use some of his code daily. When I used to do binaural recording and analysis for General Motors, I became acquainted with Jeroen's work and we e-mailed back and forth a few times about the fact that many people perceive binaural recordings as louder than mono recordings, even when the SPL vs. time is the same between the two recordings.
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I think I'm good for now.
I just thought it was odd for the manufacturer and dealers to be at odds. Sweetwater got back to me, confirming that it's discontinued.
It's just bizarre. I'd guess they don't want to announce that it's discontinued so they'll be able to sell off the backstock.
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When you finally learn how to mix properly, the mixes you produce will sound reasonably good on every system they are played on. It's the amateurs who mix to their "studio" speakers and then play it in a car and are disappointed by the unbalanced mix.
Do you seriously think the big mixing studios have the time to model every single environment where a song might be played? Absolutely not. They know what they are doing and they use one set of monitors consistently. Some of them may take the time to "check the mix" (probably spot checking) on a mono rig. I'm sure some do, but most of them know what they're doing and don't need to, or have the time, to check their work on a dozen different speakers or environments.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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When you finally learn how to mix properly, the mixes you produce will sound reasonably good on every system they are played on. It's the amateurs who mix to their "studio" speakers and then play it in a car and are disappointed by the unbalanced mix.
Do you seriously think the big mixing studios have the time to model every single environment where a song might be played? Absolutely not. They know what they are doing and they use one set of monitors consistently. Some of them may take the time to "check the mix" (probably spot checking) on a mono rig. I'm sure some do, but most of them know what they're doing and don't need to, or have the time, to check their work on a dozen different speakers or environments. but most of the people on this forum aren't big-time full-time recording engineers who have the time or experience to attain that mastery. Forum discussion, by its very nature, is about exchanging ideas, techniques and product information to help one another improve.
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post removed because upon further reading I conclude that it was probably wrong wrong all wrong. 
Last edited by Pat Marr; 07/13/14 03:10 PM. Reason: unwillingness to spread misconceptions
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Josie, and Critter,
...
But, one of the biggest issues that we have as a small company is that people don't really know what they are listening to. I could record a Steinway Grand Piano in a concert hall with two mics, and the present it to you in three forms, a.) unaltered, b.) with a small amount of harmonic distortion, and c.) louder, and you would probably pick 'B' or 'C' as the better sounding. Why? Because most people do not know what a properly mic'd piano in a concert hall really sounds like.
...
Gary Just for fun a good experiment would be to have a 100 listeners (50 musicians and 50 music lovers but non-musicians), one at a time, sit blindfolded in the same concert hall at a to be defined "optimum" listening position (whatever that means, but they must sit way off stage in the audience seating area, not on or near stage) with a that SAME recorded piano: 1) live or actual and we'll call that option a.) true 2- though "top 'o the line" monitors, and clearly best uncolored power amps money can buy, positioned at same location as piano (listener should not be able to tell acoustically that anything has moved or is "different") using your b.) unaltered, c.) with a small amount of harmonic distortion, and d.) louder. Then get them to pick BEST - overall (one out of four) and also - A versus B (true versus unaltered) - actually can they tell true from sampled???? I wonder what sampling results would look like? And what would conclusion be if a statistically significant number of musicians do NOT PICK the actual live piano (they pick options b, c, or d at alpha of say .1 (please note: this is a fast and badly defined, and designed, experiment by me; therefore, the beta is uncontrolled, which is a very bad way to put together a statistical test experiment but hey, I'm retired and not being paid to do this anymore either <G>)
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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"Or if you are recording backing tracks for use on gigs, you could model your PA speakers actual frequency response, then model various sized rooms."
I have found that I get much better results by actually doing final mix EQ tweaks through the mixer/amp/PA speakers. With my large rig, that usually requires pulling out some low-mids.
The frequency response difference between phones, near fields and PA enclosures is huge, and when you factor in the coloring of the board and amp, it's virtually impossible to simulate that combination.
While it's true that a well-mixed song should sound good on most systems, PA's are another matter.
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Larry, your fun experiment brought back some fond memories! I few years ago we had two singers who would argue day and night about vocal reverb, one said spring reverb was the best and the other said digital reverb was the best. They both said that they could tell the difference! Each had their reverb units with them.
So we, the other members in the band, made them leave the room. We told them we would take one mic and one time plug it into a both reverbs. They left and I plugged the mic into the digital reverb, note the PA settings were identical for both tests. They both sang accapella, then left the room. I did nothing. They came back, sang again and proceeded to argue with was better. Of course one took the first variation and the other the second!
Of course they were mad at me and the band broke up a short while later.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Too end this thread, let me just see what you all are using and let's go from there. If I don't have to I don't want to spend over $500.00 a pair. My Sweetwater rep says I should go for the Focal Alpha 50 and or the Yamaha MSP 7, both with the front bass ports which I want, the Yamahas are $399.00 each and the Focal Alpha 50 are $299.00 each. To me it's a lot of money. The Presonus Eris series, sound ok, but reviews with failing monitors, also the Behringer Truth 3030a sounds good but then the reviews with failing monitors. Let's here what you guys have and the good and the bad of the monitors.........Thanks
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When you finally learn how to mix properly, the mixes you produce will sound reasonably good on every system they are played on. It's the amateurs who mix to their "studio" speakers and then play it in a car and are disappointed by the unbalanced mix.
Do you seriously think the big mixing studios have the time to model every single environment where a song might be played? Absolutely not. They know what they are doing and they use one set of monitors consistently. Some of them may take the time to "check the mix" (probably spot checking) on a mono rig. I'm sure some do, but most of them know what they're doing and don't need to, or have the time, to check their work on a dozen different speakers or environments. but most of the people on this forum aren't big-time full-time recording engineers who have the time or experience to attain that mastery. Forum discussion, by its very nature, is about exchanging ideas, techniques and product information to help one another improve. Yep.... most here are "Amateurs". That term is often used in a derogatory manner by those who consider themselves to be "professionals". However, it comes from the root word Amore (in one language or another)...it means LOVE. Amateurs do what they do because of the LOVE of what they do.... in our case... that love is MUSIC. Yeah we don't do it for a profession, or fame or money..... we do it because we love doing it. That reason, however, isn't an excuse to be mediocre in our efforts. We should always strive to be the best we can be, learning and improving constantly. While we probably will not attain the skill set of the masters of the mixing world and set at the desk mixing a Streisand, Adele or Dion, we can, nonetheless, attain the level where we are producing top quality music mixes that sound good and work well across many listening environments.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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So in the end I got the KRK VXT6 monitors, and I can say holy crap what was I mixing, what a difference it makes. I didn't want to go this high end but I did get a deal thru Sweetwater, the monitors go for $449.99 each and I got the pair for $718.00, can't beat that. Sweetwater always does me right. All my songs are way out of where they should be. Lesson here, never use home type speakers as I did. Again I can't believe the difference...................
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Newbie here of about 3 weeks. I have a Korg SV 1. Use a Roland amp speaker no mixer. Just bought a JBL LSR 305 5" as a practice amp. I would like to run the audio from my Dell Inspiron 1464 where BIAB lives to these speakers. In the BIAB MIDI/Audio Drivers setup window I currently have no MIDI input driver chosen. MIDI output is set to Microsoft GS wavetable Synth. Synthesizer/Sound Card is set to General MIDI instrument Misc. I have have not altered any settings....all are factory default/ recommended.
Thanks,
Bud
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i use a pair of 30 year old studiosonics *they were created by PHILIPS but a diffrend brand for east european countrys. i bought them off a friend for 100 euros a couple of years ago and have been using them sinds. i only found one other pair on ebay a year ago for 300 dollars from a studio in usa. you dont need verry expensive speakers , but dont go for the cheepest to , use a good nearfield speaker and most importend realy get to know your speakers as if you get to know a real friend. listen to them a lot with a lot of differend music styles.... best way to get to know your studio monitors ,
Last edited by LeoVB; 08/24/14 05:57 AM.
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I may be late to this dance but, upon Mac's recommendation, I bought a pair of Barry MS-40 Near-Field Monitors and I haven't looked back. In my room (16' x 16'), 40W is paint/wallpaper pealing power.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
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Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Forums66
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Jan 19th, 2020
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