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#286617 - 03/04/15 06:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Volume changes won't stay set!
Bill Rowland Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I have two different songs with this issue. All other songs seem fine. If I change the volume of instruments in the mixer, they will stay set when I play the song. As soon as I stop the song, all volumes reset to value of 90. Except the melody part, which will stay as I set it. I tried saving the song with the settings I want, without playing the song first. But when I reopen, everything except melody jumps to 90. I have tried freezing/unfreezing parts, but nothing helps. Any ideas??

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#286618 - 03/04/15 06:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5523
Loc: Chicago
Sounds like these are midi tracks, right?
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#286619 - 03/04/15 06:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: MusicStudent]
Bill Rowland Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
No, not MIDI tracks. Just regular patches from a standard style. Both songs are set to ZZBOSSA style. But I tried changing to a different style, and still have the problem.

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#286624 - 03/04/15 06:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Melody or Soloist track edit:


Attachments
2015-03-05_13-49-46.jpg

2015-03-05_13-50-42.jpg


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#286628 - 03/04/15 07:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17514
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Bill, the steps VideoTrack gave may reveal a command that sets the volumes.

I have often read of this problem when someone started a song with an imported MIDI file. Did you do this?

Certain BIAB styles set the initial volume. What style(s) are you using?

Even if it isn't any of these, you are not crazy. I've experienced this problem infrequently for over a decade. It's random and I haven't figured out the cause.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#286710 - 03/05/15 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I have narrowed down the problem, but still no idea why it's happening. It seems to happen with any songs using style ZZBOSSA, which are saved with file suffix MG4. In addition to the two new songs we are working on with the problem, I realized we have one other song with that style that we have been using for backing for some time with no problem. Turns out it DOES have the same problem. When the song is finished playing, or is stopped, the volumes do reset to 90. But as long as you don't resave it at that point, all is okay the next time you open it. Only problem is when you're working on volume settings for a new song. Basically, you have to adjust volumes as you want while the song is playing, then note down those volumes; because when the song stops, they go away! Then you reset those levels and save it before playing it. Strange and annoying! I'm wondering if others have seen this problem with this particular style, or with others?

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#286739 - 03/05/15 03:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
Graham Martin Offline
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Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 808
Loc: REDLAND BAY, Qld., AUSTRALIA
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
snip .......

Even if it isn't any of these, you are not crazy. I've experienced this problem infrequently for over a decade. It's random and I haven't figured out the cause.


It has only started happening to me a lot since the release of 2015. I am also finding it a bit frustrating not being able to track down the cause.

I don't import midi files and one theory I am pursuing is that it happens when I use a file from the archives of the Band-in-a-Box Group on Yahoo! Groups (not a PG Music forum). Only a theory though, so far!
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#286745 - 03/05/15 04:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5523
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Bill, the steps VideoTrack gave may reveal a command that sets the volumes.


That was the likely culprit in the past. Have you tried it??
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#286750 - 03/05/15 04:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17514
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Graham, you've been around here a long time, too. Do you remember the technique we used to have to do to preserve volumes? Save with patches and harmony while the song was playing. This was pretty much fixed a few years back and I don't do that step anymore. But once in awhile, the volumes of some/most of the instruments revert to 90.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#286751 - 03/05/15 04:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I'm probably missing something; but I don't see how using the Event List Editor would help with this? It just seems to show the note events for the melody. I can't see any event that would indicate changing the volume level for all parts (EXCEPT the melody?) at once. As I said, this happens when the song ends or is stopped.

Forgot to respond to another question. I am not importing any Midi files. We are using the archive http://www.igidigi.nl/biab/index.html to find copies of songs we want to do (duo with guitar/vocal and clarinet/sax), then modify to suit our needs. Not sure where that song archive was found. My partner came up with it.

Maybe best solution is just to find a different bossa style, if ZZBOSSA is truly "buggy". ?

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#286772 - 03/05/15 06:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
jford Online   content
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10612
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Here's how you fix it. Load the song with the ZZBOSSA style. Then from the top menu, select "Styles, Stylemaker, Edit Current Style".

Once the stylemaker interface comes up, click on the "Misc" button. Once the new box comes up, uncheck the box next to "Allow Volume Changes With Style" (this setting forces the volumes defined by the style - that's why your changes are sticking).

Click on OK, then Save the style.

It should work for you now.
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#286805 - 03/05/15 10:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
jford, you're my hero! It seems so obviously intuitive now. (That was sarcasm, by the way...)

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#286807 - 03/05/15 10:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17514
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Interesting. John, doesn't the global override take precedence over the setting in one style?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#286815 - 03/06/15 12:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13525
Loc: Australia
John,

I've still got a lot to learn! I'd never have found that. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Regards,
Noel
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#286816 - 03/06/15 12:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Noel96]
Tony Wright Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 600
Loc: Waterloo Ontario Canada
I have only just noticed this thread otherwise would have jumped in earlier.

The fix, as stated, is usually with imported styles - PG styles nearly always have this box unticked.

In the past we have asked for the wording of this box to be changed. If you tick to "ALLOW volume changes" it implies that volumes are frozen by the style if you don't tick.

Tony

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#286833 - 03/06/15 04:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 416
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I have been struggling with this for the past few weeks as I am trying to develop some new styles. My problem first started when I tried to balance a style that used a supermidi piano.

The only way to ensure I got the mix i wanted was to check that box. Then regardless of any other setting the volumes will be set by the style. The default is 90. This overrides even realtracks.

If you also use the mixer window, and even the combo setting, the style seems to take precedent. You can alter the volumes, but the next time they load, you are back to the preset style volumes.

I use 2013, and I have only found 1 PGMusic midi style that has preset volumes (BOARDWALK) but there maybe others. Does BIAB 2015 have the box checked by default? It should be unchecked, I think.

PGMusic support tried to direct me through using a plugins including a limiter, to solve my problem, but it was just too technical just to get a style balanced

There seems to be so many ways to achieve the result, and they all interact. The BIAB manual (not the help screen) was somewhat useful but a little complicated. As with much of the documentation it explains the function but not the interactions. I found no reference to how style volume and mixer / combo volume work together.
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#286837 - 03/06/15 05:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Dave]
Tony Wright Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 600
Loc: Waterloo Ontario Canada
Yes, BIAB has the box unchecked by default and my copy has zzbossa and boardwalk as known exceptions. I agree that the box should ALWAYS be unticked by default otherwise it makes volume control too complicated and leads to threads like this one. In fact why is this option in Stylemaker ever needed? PG and Bob Norton don't use it.

I still think the wording on the box is backwards and leads to more confusion.

Tony

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#286839 - 03/06/15 05:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Dave]
percy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 463
*** Just noticed you're using BB 2013. I missed that. Sorry. ***
I'm on 2015.


Dave,

I just created a new file using the "Save current song as style" under the STYLES options. When opened in Stylemaker, my desired volumes do change to reflect 90 settings.

Go to 'Edit current style', then in the "MISC" settings, enter your desired volume levels - and before saving:

*** Allow volume changes must be checked ***

Back at the main screen, invoke the style, hit "PLAY" and the 90 default volumes appear and play at 90.

NEXT, hit play again and the new volumes indeed will appear
and play.


Viola !! HTH.

Percy


[b][/b]


Edited by percy (03/06/15 06:34 AM)

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#286851 - 03/06/15 06:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 416
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I had to use it because without it I coudn't build a style with a midi and supermidi instruments properly balanced.

The process to balance midi instruments uses pattern velocities. Simply the higher the velocity the louder the note. Real track volumes can be adjusted in the style in the MISC 》MORE window. once balanced the style /song can be alter in the mixer.

Supermidi tracks are not adjusted by patterns (they don't use them) or, it seems, from the real tracks adjustment window.

So unless you want to rest mixer volumes every time you use a supermidi track, the only option seems to be the style volume, and the "checked" override box.

Or, of course, stay away from super midi.
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BIAB for Windows Version 2018 (520)
Windows 10

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#286862 - 03/06/15 08:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10612
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
PG and Bob Norton don't use it.


Actually, many of Norton's styles have this box checked. I generally have to edit the style to uncheck the box.

ZZBossa (as are all the ZZ styles) is one of the original BIAB styles from waaaayyyyyyy back when. I suspect it just slipped through the crack. The other PGMusic styles (that I use anyway), have the box unchecked.

Quote:
doesn't the global override take precedence over the setting in one style


Matt - that was my thought, too. Maybe that's where the bug is.

Also, if you are having trouble balancing out the volumes of the various MIDI tracks, you can also set the MIDI normalize feature, which normalizes the volume of all MIDI to the level you set. Don't know how that will work with the SuperMIDI tracks, since it uses a different engine, but it's worth trying out.
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HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

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