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#286617 - 03/04/15 06:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Volume changes won't stay set!
Bill Rowland Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I have two different songs with this issue. All other songs seem fine. If I change the volume of instruments in the mixer, they will stay set when I play the song. As soon as I stop the song, all volumes reset to value of 90. Except the melody part, which will stay as I set it. I tried saving the song with the settings I want, without playing the song first. But when I reopen, everything except melody jumps to 90. I have tried freezing/unfreezing parts, but nothing helps. Any ideas??

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#286618 - 03/04/15 06:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5500
Loc: Chicago
Sounds like these are midi tracks, right?
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#286619 - 03/04/15 06:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: MusicStudent]
Bill Rowland Offline
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Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
No, not MIDI tracks. Just regular patches from a standard style. Both songs are set to ZZBOSSA style. But I tried changing to a different style, and still have the problem.

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#286624 - 03/04/15 06:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8121
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Melody or Soloist track edit:


Attachments
2015-03-05_13-49-46.jpg

2015-03-05_13-50-42.jpg


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#286628 - 03/04/15 07:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17274
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Bill, the steps VideoTrack gave may reveal a command that sets the volumes.

I have often read of this problem when someone started a song with an imported MIDI file. Did you do this?

Certain BIAB styles set the initial volume. What style(s) are you using?

Even if it isn't any of these, you are not crazy. I've experienced this problem infrequently for over a decade. It's random and I haven't figured out the cause.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#286710 - 03/05/15 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I have narrowed down the problem, but still no idea why it's happening. It seems to happen with any songs using style ZZBOSSA, which are saved with file suffix MG4. In addition to the two new songs we are working on with the problem, I realized we have one other song with that style that we have been using for backing for some time with no problem. Turns out it DOES have the same problem. When the song is finished playing, or is stopped, the volumes do reset to 90. But as long as you don't resave it at that point, all is okay the next time you open it. Only problem is when you're working on volume settings for a new song. Basically, you have to adjust volumes as you want while the song is playing, then note down those volumes; because when the song stops, they go away! Then you reset those levels and save it before playing it. Strange and annoying! I'm wondering if others have seen this problem with this particular style, or with others?

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#286739 - 03/05/15 03:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
Graham Martin Offline
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Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 808
Loc: REDLAND BAY, Qld., AUSTRALIA
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
snip .......

Even if it isn't any of these, you are not crazy. I've experienced this problem infrequently for over a decade. It's random and I haven't figured out the cause.


It has only started happening to me a lot since the release of 2015. I am also finding it a bit frustrating not being able to track down the cause.

I don't import midi files and one theory I am pursuing is that it happens when I use a file from the archives of the Band-in-a-Box Group on Yahoo! Groups (not a PG Music forum). Only a theory though, so far!
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#286745 - 03/05/15 04:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5500
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Bill, the steps VideoTrack gave may reveal a command that sets the volumes.


That was the likely culprit in the past. Have you tried it??
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#286750 - 03/05/15 04:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17274
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Graham, you've been around here a long time, too. Do you remember the technique we used to have to do to preserve volumes? Save with patches and harmony while the song was playing. This was pretty much fixed a few years back and I don't do that step anymore. But once in awhile, the volumes of some/most of the instruments revert to 90.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#286751 - 03/05/15 04:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
I'm probably missing something; but I don't see how using the Event List Editor would help with this? It just seems to show the note events for the melody. I can't see any event that would indicate changing the volume level for all parts (EXCEPT the melody?) at once. As I said, this happens when the song ends or is stopped.

Forgot to respond to another question. I am not importing any Midi files. We are using the archive http://www.igidigi.nl/biab/index.html to find copies of songs we want to do (duo with guitar/vocal and clarinet/sax), then modify to suit our needs. Not sure where that song archive was found. My partner came up with it.

Maybe best solution is just to find a different bossa style, if ZZBOSSA is truly "buggy". ?

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#286772 - 03/05/15 06:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10451
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Here's how you fix it. Load the song with the ZZBOSSA style. Then from the top menu, select "Styles, Stylemaker, Edit Current Style".

Once the stylemaker interface comes up, click on the "Misc" button. Once the new box comes up, uncheck the box next to "Allow Volume Changes With Style" (this setting forces the volumes defined by the style - that's why your changes are sticking).

Click on OK, then Save the style.

It should work for you now.
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#286805 - 03/05/15 10:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Bill Rowland Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Northern California
jford, you're my hero! It seems so obviously intuitive now. (That was sarcasm, by the way...)

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#286807 - 03/05/15 10:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17274
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Interesting. John, doesn't the global override take precedence over the setting in one style?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#286815 - 03/06/15 12:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13229
Loc: Australia
John,

I've still got a lot to learn! I'd never have found that. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Regards,
Noel
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#286816 - 03/06/15 12:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Noel96]
Tony Wright Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 599
Loc: Waterloo Ontario Canada
I have only just noticed this thread otherwise would have jumped in earlier.

The fix, as stated, is usually with imported styles - PG styles nearly always have this box unticked.

In the past we have asked for the wording of this box to be changed. If you tick to "ALLOW volume changes" it implies that volumes are frozen by the style if you don't tick.

Tony

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#286833 - 03/06/15 04:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Matt Finley]
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 399
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I have been struggling with this for the past few weeks as I am trying to develop some new styles. My problem first started when I tried to balance a style that used a supermidi piano.

The only way to ensure I got the mix i wanted was to check that box. Then regardless of any other setting the volumes will be set by the style. The default is 90. This overrides even realtracks.

If you also use the mixer window, and even the combo setting, the style seems to take precedent. You can alter the volumes, but the next time they load, you are back to the preset style volumes.

I use 2013, and I have only found 1 PGMusic midi style that has preset volumes (BOARDWALK) but there maybe others. Does BIAB 2015 have the box checked by default? It should be unchecked, I think.

PGMusic support tried to direct me through using a plugins including a limiter, to solve my problem, but it was just too technical just to get a style balanced

There seems to be so many ways to achieve the result, and they all interact. The BIAB manual (not the help screen) was somewhat useful but a little complicated. As with much of the documentation it explains the function but not the interactions. I found no reference to how style volume and mixer / combo volume work together.
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#286837 - 03/06/15 05:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Dave]
Tony Wright Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 599
Loc: Waterloo Ontario Canada
Yes, BIAB has the box unchecked by default and my copy has zzbossa and boardwalk as known exceptions. I agree that the box should ALWAYS be unticked by default otherwise it makes volume control too complicated and leads to threads like this one. In fact why is this option in Stylemaker ever needed? PG and Bob Norton don't use it.

I still think the wording on the box is backwards and leads to more confusion.

Tony

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#286839 - 03/06/15 05:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Dave]
percy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 463
*** Just noticed you're using BB 2013. I missed that. Sorry. ***
I'm on 2015.


Dave,

I just created a new file using the "Save current song as style" under the STYLES options. When opened in Stylemaker, my desired volumes do change to reflect 90 settings.

Go to 'Edit current style', then in the "MISC" settings, enter your desired volume levels - and before saving:

*** Allow volume changes must be checked ***

Back at the main screen, invoke the style, hit "PLAY" and the 90 default volumes appear and play at 90.

NEXT, hit play again and the new volumes indeed will appear
and play.


Viola !! HTH.

Percy


[b][/b]


Edited by percy (03/06/15 06:34 AM)

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#286851 - 03/06/15 06:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 399
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I had to use it because without it I coudn't build a style with a midi and supermidi instruments properly balanced.

The process to balance midi instruments uses pattern velocities. Simply the higher the velocity the louder the note. Real track volumes can be adjusted in the style in the MISC 》MORE window. once balanced the style /song can be alter in the mixer.

Supermidi tracks are not adjusted by patterns (they don't use them) or, it seems, from the real tracks adjustment window.

So unless you want to rest mixer volumes every time you use a supermidi track, the only option seems to be the style volume, and the "checked" override box.

Or, of course, stay away from super midi.
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BIAB for Windows Version 2018 (516)
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#286862 - 03/06/15 08:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Volume changes won't stay set! [Re: Bill Rowland]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10451
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
PG and Bob Norton don't use it.


Actually, many of Norton's styles have this box checked. I generally have to edit the style to uncheck the box.

ZZBossa (as are all the ZZ styles) is one of the original BIAB styles from waaaayyyyyyy back when. I suspect it just slipped through the crack. The other PGMusic styles (that I use anyway), have the box unchecked.

Quote:
doesn't the global override take precedence over the setting in one style


Matt - that was my thought, too. Maybe that's where the bug is.

Also, if you are having trouble balancing out the volumes of the various MIDI tracks, you can also set the MIDI normalize feature, which normalizes the volume of all MIDI to the level you set. Don't know how that will work with the SuperMIDI tracks, since it uses a different engine, but it's worth trying out.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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PG Music News
Tutorials - How to Install Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

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Our Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, and PlusPAK are delivered as a download, on DVD, or on a 32GB USB flash drive.

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Your flash drive shipment also includes a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

The Band-in-a-Box® UltraPAK is available as a download or shipped on a portable hard drive. When you receive the hard drive version, there are a few different installation options:

Option #1 - Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to watch.

Option #2 - Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks and RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to watch.

Option #3 - Install Band-in-a-Box® AND RealTracks on your computer hard drive: click here to watch.

All of these videos are available on our YouTube Channel or Videos support page.

Video - Making A Song in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Ever wonder how to create a song in Band-in-a-Box®? We start off with the basics in our latest video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018!

Windows users: click here | Mac users: click here

RealTracks Patch Update for Windows Users

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest RealTracks update patch (519) here.

This patch includes some RealTracks audio updates we have made since the release of Band-in-a-Box 2018. 2018 users should be sure to download the latest Band-in-a-Box 2018 update patch (519), as that patch includes the bulk of the fixes for RealTracks released with 2018. This is a larger download than typical because it updates the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks audio files. There is more information and Audiophile patches available here.

Summary of RealTracks Audio updates:
Improved: There were small issues with the tuning of several Bass styles. This has been fixed for both the original mix and the direct input mix. This affects the following RealTracks:
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow16thsByron Ev16 060
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow128Byron Sw 040
- Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySwingByron Sw 190
- Bass, Acoustic, BluesyPopByron Ev 100
Improved: Audio glitches have been removed from the ends of phrases in the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest (free) update patch (519) here.

Summary of changes:
Added: Additional dialog available for detailed information in the StyleMaker (fields for memo, examples, and other parameters). These are set in the StyleMaker (more dialog, a button called "Style Memos etc").
Added: Help Video button Added to the Audio Harmony dialog.
Improved: ABC opening improvements with some accidentals, and leadin bars that occur in middle of song.
Improved: Audio harmonies now used Improved algorithms, and can be easily set using N voices above, M voices below (and have additional functions like duplicate melody, and dup. melody octave below).
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Fixed: Band-in-a-Box should show message if the latest VJT application is not installed when the user tries to render videos.
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Fixed: Misc. RealTracks updates.
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Tutorials - How to Install Your Band-in-a-Box® for Mac Hard Drive

When you have your Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac UltraPAK shipped to you on a portable hard drive, there are a few different options for installation. We go over these 3 options with our latest video series:

Option 1: Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to view.

Option 2: Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks & RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to view.

Option 3: Install Band-in-a-Box® and the RealTracks & RealDrums on your computer hard drive: click here to view.

Check out all our Band-in-a-Box for Mac videos here.

Video - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets for Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

Have you purchased your Band-in-a-Box® package, and want to make sure you're downloading and installing the RealTracks Sets correctly?

Well, we've created just the tutorial video you're looking for! Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets.

Video link:
www.pgmusic.com/?vid=QndXu8H_IwM

Thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 - Mac Power Users Discussion

David Sparks and Katie Floyd discuss a variety of topics in their recent episide of Mac Power Users: https://www.relay.fm/mpu/432 - listen all the way through (and laugh along with them - it was a very entertaining episode!), or jump to 1:37:40 where David shares his thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac!

Thank you David and Katie!

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