++ Another thread ++ started a nice discussion about how Band-in-a-Box's graphical interface needs improvement. I'm starting this thread so users and prospective customers can provide PG Music with specific suggestions for improvement. I've copied an edited version of Peter Gannon's thoughts below:
"Here's a screenshot of Band-in-a-Box 2015 http://static.emediamusic.com/product_assets/bb/2014-bandboxwin.jpg And, no, that doesn't look like a cartoon to me. I happen to like that there is text present on most of the buttons and elements in BiaB, unlike the DAW program screen that has just icons with no text for many items.
Now don't get me wrong here- I am all for improving lots of aspects of BiaB GUI, and there's lots to be done there! But only in a way that makes it easier and more intuitive to use. So I'm not about to get rid of text on the buttons for example."
User jford posted some thoughts many users agreed with:
My personal opinion is that I like the retro "look" of BIAB. I don't know that I want BIAB to start looking like every other music app out there and become just a face in the crowd, like so many other music applications today. "It's familiar" (a great Andy Griffith line from "No Time For Sergeants").
That being said, there are a few (I would imagine) fairly simple things that could be done to modernize the user experience. Peter has often said to provide specifics for changes, so here goes.
The main screen has a lot of white, errr, grey space on it. The little chord entry box has been discussed at length recently, but just look at all the unused space surrounding the little box. The white space areas should be able to be used more efficiently, which is where some of the below suggestions come into play.
I think what would go a long way towards modernizing the interface would be to make all the window elements floatable (where you can move it around on the screen and resize it), dockable (you can lock it into place it on the screen at the top-bottom-left-right), visible/invisible (if you don’t want to see it on the screen, then poof, it’s gone, easily brought back), and scalable (which is different resizable – for example the static mixer window elements are of fixed size, which is why there isn’t room to see the Thru or Audio tracks. Resizable usually makes things disappear; scalable changes the size of the fonts and graphics to continue to display the entire element).
Toolbars should be fully customizable – dockable or floating. You should be able to determine whether the buttons have text on them, or are large or small buttons. You should be able to add/remove any buttons, as well as re-order the buttons to suit your own workflow.
While colors currently are user customizable, this should be made as easy as possible, with clear descriptions of what each screen element represents.
The request for improving chord entry in the chord grid has already been made and discussed at length, so I won’t go into here (other than something should be done to improve it).
Right now, for example, you can bring up the floatable mixer, but the static mixer stays on the screen. And they don’t look the same or have the same functionality. And the reason you made it floatable was to reclaim screen space, but that doesn’t happen. There should be ONE mixer window with all the functionality that could either be docked to one of the sides of the screen (PGMusic could figure out how that would work and what would go where when there are multiple elements docked), or it could float and you could move it around as you see fit (and all tracks should be displayed.
Additionally, when you change an instrument on the chord grid (maybe by using the F5 key at a certain bar), the mixer should change to reflect that new instrument, not just keep showing the instrument as originally defined in the style. It’s confusing to see a guitar listed and hear a violin, for example.
The VST/DX screen is in need of rework (this issue affects both BIAB and RealBand). The top part of the window takes up a third to half of the screen, leaving little room for the actual VST (which is what you really want to see in the first place). When I want to just check, for example, if an instrument is playing through the VSTi, I should not have to bring up the windows, move the window to the top of the screen, resize the window so I can adjust the scroll bars, then adjust the scroll bars to see the VST interface. By that time, I’ve forgotten why I clicked on it in the first place. The stuff at the top is important, but ought to be called up only when you need it, not visible on the screen the whole time. Maybe a twisty where it by default displays the current selection only (on a single line), but then you click on the twisty to see the other tracks and selections, and then click the twisty again and it just displays the [possibly new] current selection. That way, there’s plenty of room for the actual DX/VST interface, which s what you wanted in the first place.
Even though there has been some work done here, the menus need to be reworked to remove redundancy.
For example, on the File Menu, how many “Open” commands do I need. I should only need one, and then I can choose what to open once the “Open” window appears (just like other Windows applications do).
Likewise on the Export To and Send To commands. I understand that one is the “last one selected”, but just make the default entry on the “Export To” command be the “last one selected”. The redundancy is not needed.
And you really only need a “Save” and “Save As” command. If something hasn’t been saved previously, then it should invoke the “Save As” command; otherwise, it just saves with whatever options you previously set. And then any options you want to set should be on the “Save As” screen (this is where you would be able to save with patches/harmonies/etc).
The help menu also has a number of (in my opinion) unnecessary redundancies, but all menus should be looked at carefully.
Yes, there is more that can be done (did someone say StylePicker, RealTracksPicker, Songlist, etc?), but as a start these would, in my opinion go a long way towards improving user experience and workflow for creating music. Of course, these are just my opinions and suggestions. Take 'em or leave 'em. I still love BIAB/RealBand and will continue to support it, regardless. Nothing else comes even close to doing what they do. _________________________ John
And my own contribution:
The ONE idea in the FL Studio video I would like PG Music implement is for the GUI to use vector graphics. BiaB and RB users have a wide variety of displays being driven by a variety of graphic cards or on board motherboard chips. The Fl Studio video demonstrated how vector graphics provides a sharp image on any size display. That's exciting!
I would like to see Band-in-a-Box and RealBand have screen tabs similar to those used in Chrome or Firefox. Each tab would display BiaB or RB from a different perspective. For instance, the default RealBand tabs might follow the progression to create a song with Tab 1 offering a minimal track screen, commands to import a SGU or midi file, chord sheet and load instruments, tab 2 geared to editing, tab 3 mixing and exporting.
While changing to vector graphics may prove a stretch, an effective use of tabs could eliminate a great deal of clutter.
Others suggestions were posted but I was unable to copy all of them.
"We want to take things out of the box, turn them on and see them leap into action without having to read anything"
taken from a blogg about user interfaces (2007).
The Sequencer Window. If I were a new user, who knows chord E A and D on the keyboard and has a shrewd idea of what a sequencer was, if I was exploring the interface as part of my dipping my toes in the water, if I pressed a button marked "Sequencer"
I would expect to see a sequencer view.
What the user actually sees actually get is:
1] A pop up box asking him to choose between a 'melody' and a 'soloist'
Bemused by the difference (don't soloists play the melody?). The user click one at random
This presents the user with.......... a question about mutlichannels
The user begins to wonder if irt is some sort of initiation test, all he wants to do is see the sequencer.
He clicks a guess again...
He is presented with another warning message saying the track screen will be blank "Great!" he thinks and click on still hoping to find...... a sequencer.
What appears is a strange screen showing buttons for all or none of - nothing. It does not look like a sequncer at all. He tries in his mind to compare it to a sequencer, but there is just not enough resemblance to make any connection. He is baffled.
By chance he clicks the video button and a strange video appears (check it out). Whatever is being explained does not answer the question where is hte sequencer?
Yes where is the sequencer?
Well weeks later you discover, there isnt one. At least there is one but you have to go out of the program load into RB and work from there.
All you wanted to see was a sequencer. You wanted to see the Audio and the MIDI tracks along with your recorded tracks.
Months later it dawns on you what PG thinks is a sequencer is only something that applies to the "Melody" track and the "Soloist" track. You Wonder why you cant see the MIDI for the MIDI drum.
Proposed Solution
Provide a proper sequencer window.
Drop the notion of melodist and soloist (whilst cleverly retaining their function)
just have tracks and track types.
Make any track recordable by the user.
On any MIDI track make the Notation and the Piano Roll screens accessible by clicking on the tracks in the sequncer.
Make a chord track behave like a chord does already and show this at the top line of the sequencer
Show the parts underneath
on MIDI tracks have a notation button, which glows when notation is available. On clicking, provide three choices "score view" "manuscript view" and "Sequencer view". The Manuscriot view shows the part in concent with other parts. The Sequencer view shows the part in (treble or bass or twin) under the sequencer track.
Make similar functions available for the Piano roll view.
Be able to edit and move chunks of things with tools
Make Transport controls moveable and dockeable
Melody and SOLOIST tracks can still remain but simply as a track type in the sequencer. As a specified type they would have specific editable attributes.
each track type would have its own attributes - Real Tracks might have to arrive in blocks. Cut shape and fade tools would be provided.
Stop the need to work in two applications integrate them intelligently.
If this was done the new user would click on a sequencer button and see a useful sequencer, with useful tools.
Currently it must appear almost designed to confuse.
Z
provide a editable mixer that floats resizes and twins with this.
Well, seeing that I managed to 'rock the boat' yesterday (this was unintentional, although it appears that I managed to completely capsize it...), I thought it my duty to come up with practical ideas instead of talk. Talk is cheap. Ideas, and functional concepts are required. It was therefore my duty to put in some effort to restore normality - if that's possible.
So, I spent a little bit of time today with some 'ideas only' concepts of how the interface could be improved, by reducing clutter, an hopefully streamlining the look and appearance, so to speak.
This is a rough shot, only a day's work (including video), and is completely conceptual. It could be improved for sure, but it's a start.
I hope that others might think this has merit and could be taken further, or offer their own suggestions, as others already have.
(I hope PGM staff get a chance to see it too. Peter, feel free to PM me for design ideas.)
Watching on YouTube at larger size is perhaps more beneficial to see the new features.
Feel free to provide all comments, criticisms, good, bad, anything.
My intentions (as always) are only to provide ideas to improve and advance the product, nothing less.
None of the ideas in the video are difficult to implement too.
Best
Trevor
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
That's a very impressive video. You have some good ideas. Here are some random thoughts.
The tabs or buttons might work better if they were on two rows with the top row selecting broad functions like create song, practice, perform, custom 1 and custom 2. Buttons on the second row would change based upon the top row selection. For example, when perform is selected you would see second row buttons for import songlist, play songlist, create songlist, display lyrics on/off, display chords on/off.
Trevor, I would adopt that in a heartbeat. Really great job. A lot of this is like changing the navigation scheme on a website, leaving the underlying called pages the same as they were but giving a whole new appearance = easy to implement as you said. I love it.
Your ideas for the progress bar and audio meters look great, too.
We definitely should make you feel bad more often!
By the way, great name for a song: "Uncontrollably Brazen". Even better name for a band. But the song on the screen is not what we were listening to...
Jim, yes, we can refine ideas for the button/menu system including sublevels. I think Trevor was going for the concept of showing how we could have the chordsheet take most of the screen, which I would really like. I'll bet those who use a laptop and play live gigs using the conductor would agree. This is quite exciting stuff.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 05/01/1507:00 AM.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
The thought occurred to me when the curser was over the tracks button, why stop at the limited tracks that biab has, why not let the "tracks" actually open all the tracks in a style vieweable as in a DAW and maybe the ability to add up to 24 tracks or more?
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
00 I agree with most of your ideas. What I would add or change is to have all 16 MIDI channels open for the user. That way we could add more strings, guitar etc to the mix. Make all 16 channels open for either MIDI or RTs.
I would also add going to 64 bit at the same time.
I would not merge BiaB and RB into one product. I would have two products; one with the enhancements to BiaB and another with RB added to the enhanced BiaB. YMMV.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Excellent job Trevor! The only thing that I would change would be to have the play/record/song track/meter toolbar be floatable and able to be pinned anywhere in the main window. I prefer mine to be on the very top. This is nitpicking for sure but something to think about.
Now I have to get you mad about the lack of new MIDI styles
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
+1 Trevor. I think the ability to see what you're typing in the chord cell should be implemented. This may have been mentioned is someone's previous post. We shouldn't have to look elsewhere to see what we're typing.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
Excellent job Trevor! The only thing that I would change would be to have the play/record/song track/meter toolbar be floatable and able to be pinned anywhere in the main window. I prefer mine to be on the very top. This is nitpicking for sure but something to think about.
Now I have to get you mad about the lack of new MIDI styles
+1 Mario and how about the ability to pin yellow messages
+1 Trevor. I think the ability to see what you're typing in the chord cell should be implemented. This may have been mentioned is someone's previous post. We shouldn't have to look elsewhere to see what we're typing.
It's interesting to me that the GUI is perceived to look 'better' when there is a menu structure (buttons) to bring up only the part(s) I want to see at the moment.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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