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Hello all I have decided to participate in FAWM this year. I want to release an album of original songs sometime towards the middle of the year and I reckon this may be a good chance to get at least some of the songs written for that album. In order to try and not clog up the forum with all these songs I will put all the demos in this thread. Some of them may be a bit raw due to time constraints! Any candid feedback on the songwriting or production would be most appreciated as the good ones will most certainly be rerecorded and reproduced in the middle of the year. Edited to add: All the tracks can be found here ALL MY FAWM TRACKS
Last edited by JosieC; 02/03/16 03:45 AM.
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Song number 1 Little Suzie Johnson (Co-write with Rachael Scherf) LITTLE SUZIE JOHNSON Little Suzie Johnson wouldn't hurt a fly when the bullies hurt her she would never cry At lunch they'd throw their food at her She slowly ate her roll At break they'd try to trip her She'd crawl up in her hole Little Suzie Johnson Come and stand by every door Look beyond the cold and grey find the dance you're looking for Little Suzie Johnson dreamt of life elsewhere looked out of the window at the coming fair she'd run away with them you see From this small grey town She'd paint her face all white and red make herself a clown Little Suzie Johnson Come and stand by every door Look beyond the cold and grey find the dance you're looking for Little Suzie Johnson They're laughing at your tricks You've finally found where you belong In this strange eclectic mix You left the bullies far behind with their small town lives they'll marry young and then one day start bulling their wives Little Suzie Johnson Come and stand by every door Look beyond the cold and grey find the dance you're looking for Realtracks RealTracks in style: ~1394:Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Sw 110 (Very Simple) RealTracks in style: ~2192:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm EZListening Sw 085 RealTracks in style: ~1984:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm EZListening Sw 085 RealTracks in style: 2456:Cello, Background PopSwing Sw 110 (1TrackStringQuartet) RealDrums in style: JazzBrushes#1: a: JazzBrushes#1b: JazzBrushes#1 RealDrums-TambourinePopSw
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Well first, congratulations on tackling fawm 2016. You're certainly capable and it will be fun to tag along on your journey.
Nice first song. My musings about it are mostly observational and the tiniest of nits.
I liked the music and choice of instruments.
Lyrically, I liked that you changed the lyric of "small grey town" to "small dark town" when you sang it. I'd keep that change.
I'll note that the lyrics "At break they'd try to trip her She'd crawl up in her hole" is the only line in the song where Suzy breaks, retreats or shows a chink in her armor. I'm unsure if it's intentional, but the line stood out to me. It came across as a line written to match rhyming.
This is going to be a fun project for you and I'm looking forward to hearing the fruits of your labors.
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Hi Joanne, This certainly is a beautiful song and you sing it very well! One (tiny, tinyn, tiny) nit as far as we're concerned: The music doesn't completely agree with the dramatic words of the first verse. Then the music is too cheerful for such a sad story. When she starts dreaming of life elsewhere music and lyrics fit very well. But we certainly think this is a very good contribution to FAWM. Lots of success! Rob and Anne-Marie
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Lyrically, I liked that you changed the lyric of "small grey town" to "small dark town" when you sang it. I'd keep that change.
I'll note that the lyrics "At break they'd try to trip her She'd crawl up in her hole" is the only line in the song where Suzy breaks, retreats or shows a chink in her armor. I'm unsure if it's intentional, but the line stood out to me. It came across as a line written to match rhyming. This is why I LOVE this forum. Thank you Charlie. I would never have noticed that about that line. And yes, I think you are right it was written to rhyme. Will rethink that one. The music doesn't completely agree with the dramatic words of the first verse. Then the music is too cheerful for such a sad story. When she starts dreaming of life elsewhere music and lyrics fit very well. Thanks so much Rob and Anne-Marie. (Did I say how much I love this forum). I will rethink the backing for the first verse. Thank you. Maybe just a solitary cello.
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Joanne - you are off to a good start. This will be fun to follow along.
There is a lot of good stuff in this one.
I would suggest that you cut your bridge to just the first 4 lines of it. "Little Suzie Johnson They're laughing at your tricks You've finally found where you belong In this strange eclectic mix "
...that puts Suzie where she fought to be - in a good place - and is the "moral of your story". The next 4 lines, bring the focus back to the bullies... they don't deserve the attention... the first 4 lines say everything the bridge needs to say...
Looking forward to the next one.
floyd
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I would suggest that you cut your bridge to just the first 4 lines of it. "Little Suzie Johnson They're laughing at your tricks You've finally found where you belong In this strange eclectic mix "
...that puts Suzie where she fought to be - in a good place - and is the "moral of your story". The next 4 lines, bring the focus back to the bullies... they don't deserve the attention... the first 4 lines say everything the bridge needs to say... Wonderful thank you Floyd. Will definitely do that!
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Song Number 2 Be Brave BE BRAVE I have just come back from a week visiting my mum in Zimbabwe for her 81st birthday. I managed to write and record three songs while I was there so got a good start for FAWM. So this is song number 2. I often think about those tiny little tots who walk to school. Miles and miles they traipse through all sorts of weather. So this is the conversation I imagine between a parent and his 6 year old son before he sets off on this mammoth walk in the morning. Its time to rise on this september morning it is 6 am the day is nearly dawning The sun is poised The cockeral crows The early light is careless Be brave my little man, be brave bE brave my little man You'll walk the road a blanket spread before you Trees keeping guard Like sentries there beside you Your shadow thrown like scars behind To trace your every footstep Be brave my little man, be brave bE brave my little man Through hail and wind Through 'nclement weather struggling Just walk right on like a drum your feet are marching if you should fall Rise up with grace and walk like nothing happened Be brave my little man, be brave bE brave my little man hot cold dark light to its end just like life Be brave my little man, be brave Be brave my little man Real Tracks RealTracks in style: ~537:Bass, Acoustic, Pop Sw 165 RealTracks in style: 616:Mandolin, Rhythm Bouncy Sw 165 RealTracks in style: ~812:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Western Swing Sw 165 RealTracks in style: ~373:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Hank Sw 165 RealDrums in Song: Nashville2BeatSw8^01-a:Sidestick , b:Snare, Ride RealDrums-TambourineSwing8ths
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Hi Josie,
now you've finally started your quest. It's a good start. Like both songs and enjoyed listening.
Guenter
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Be Brave: This is a nice upbeat tune. I like the repetition of the chorus emphasizing for the youngster to know there is nothing to fear.
The song: Once again my nits are toward the lyrics.
1. I didn't connect with "You'll walk the road a blanket spread before you." I've never seen a blanket down a road. It was difficult for me to image.
2. I didn't find "scars" to be a good word choice. Not from the view of a father talking to his son or the be brave theme of the song.
3. "Through hail and wind - Through 'nclement weather struggling" is what Floyd Jane has taught me to be stumble words. You should be able to hear how you stumble a bit in your phrasing. Besides, " 'nclimate weather struggling" is just rephrasing "through hail & wind." I'd suggest rewriting this verse for better phrasing.
This was a nice listen. I could relate to most of the images you made.
I had the experience of walking to school in the first grade. I recall running into all sorts of 'imagined' obstacles my first day and actually leaving school without permission that first day, returning home to tell my mother I didn't want to have anything to do with school.
We moved the summer between first and second grade and from that point on, I rode the school bus except for the occasions I was suspended from riding the bus for misbehavior.
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Josie: You will notice a difference in comments from FAWM in here. The vast majority of comments at FAWM will be "pat on the back", "rah-rah", "keep it going". The reason is obvious, there needs to be no second guessiing or worry about perfection as you try and get to 14 songs in a month.
That is why it is also good to post here, so you can get some of the excellent constructive critiques that have been offered above. My first song I am going to post (hopefully today) is pretty crappy (ha, ha). But it is my first of 14 so I celebrate its crappiness!
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Little Suzie Johnson I really liked this song. Reminded me of a folk song from the 60 like Joan Baez style.
Be Brave Another nice tune. Excellent listen. Love the tempo of it. Cute pup sitting beside you as well.
I am not able to critique anyone's music from a songwriting pointing view or give mixing or recording advice as I am very much new at that area of music. But I do love to listen :-). There are some very skillful people in this forum that do provide excellent advice..
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Re: Song Number 2 - Be Brave
Nice sound on this - good mix, nicely recorded vocals, good instrumentation. Nice lead.
I agree with Charlie on each of his points. If you come back to these later, easy fixes....
for instance, you might try "the world" instead of "a blanket"
"Your shadow thrown... like scars behind" is a cool phrase (line) but seems "out of place" for a small boy (scars)" - you can likely find another word or image that would work as well..
"The early light is careless" - also a cool image, but I am not sure it fits with the other parts there - try... "The early light, relentless"
Just ideas, of course... you did ask for "feedback on the songwriting"...
(that being said, there are times when a writer should say "I like 'scars' there!" and go with your gut. Rules are never absolute - regardless of what some would have you believe...)
I like the song - it is a very interesting write - you're doing great...
fj
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Well done Josie and Floyd and anyone else I've missed. I've written/updated 3 or 4 lyrics so far but no songs. Better get a wriggle on.... It's hard when your working full-time with a family, but that's why it's helpful.
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Josie: You will notice a difference in comments from FAWM in here. The vast majority of comments at FAWM will be "pat on the back", "rah-rah", "keep it going". The reason is obvious, there needs to be no second guessiing or worry about perfection as you try and get to 14 songs in a month.
That is why it is also good to post here, so you can get some of the excellent constructive critiques that have been offered above. My first song I am going to post (hopefully today) is pretty crappy (ha, ha). But it is my first of 14 so I celebrate its crappiness! Hi Kevin. Yes indeed I can see that. I am definitely going to post all the songs here and take notes of all the comments. Will come back and redo them all later. I will take Feb as a month to "get it all out". Hence the recording and production may not be up to scratch. My first three songs were recorded on my laptop in Zimbabwe. No mic stand and no pop filter. Just holding the USB mic up "towards" my mouth (Noticed some rather prevalent plosives!). PS LOVED your first song. Wish I could write cr*p like that.
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Floyd, Charlie and Rob and Anne-Marie. Thanks so much for the comments and "nits". I am really after that on this project. AS mentioned I am going to just get all the songs out as best I can during Feb (I hope my jobs don't get in the way too much). I will then go back and redo the best ones for an album, taking note of all the feedback I have received. "The early light is careless" - also a cool image, but I am not sure it fits with the other parts there - try... "The early light, relentless"
Just ideas, of course... you did ask for "feedback on the songwriting"...
Floyd, yes DEFINATELY want the feedback. Please! Lying in bed last night I had the word to use instead of "careless" but of course I didn't get up and write it down so this morning it is "gone". Lambada, thanks for chiming in. Looking forward to hearing your FAWM contributions (I generally don't take the time to read the ones with lyrics only as I do my listening on my phone while doing some stuff around the house) Scott, thanks for commenting. I appreciate it.
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Song number 3 The Time to Look THE TIME TO LOOK A bit of a "weedy" title on this one. I guess that means that I haven't written a very good hook! Oh well, there's always the next one. This one was another co-write with John C Gull (who wrote Cecil the Beautiful with me). I have quite a few sets of lyrics that people have given me over the last few months so some of those will definitely come out in FAWM. Though you've seen her body You've never seen her bare Never seen through to her soul You just didnt care her victories her losses You just dont recall All her hopes and dreams Never bothered you at all Her heart is still an unread book You never had the time You never found the time You never took the time to look when you'd wake at night You'd notice that she'd cry You never lost out on your sleep You never asked her why Her heart is still an unread book You never had the time You never found the time You never took the time to look Is time to go now and leave her as she was time to let another man try lead her to the stars Her heart is still an unread book You never had the time You never found the time You never took the time to look You never had the time You never found the time You never took the time to look Realtracks (I didn't do much with the style that BIAB gave me on this one) RealTracks in style: ~1843:Bass, Electric, CountryBoogieRootFive Sw 110 RealTracks in style: ~1141:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm CountrySwingCleanPicked Sw 110 RealTracks in style: 2452:String Quartet, Rhythm PopSwingHall Sw 110 RealDrums in style: TambourineSwing8ths: a: TambourineSwing8thsb: TambourineSwing8ths ******************* Candid feedback much appreciated!
Last edited by JosieC; 02/04/16 02:23 AM.
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Re: Song number 3 The Time to Look
This is another good recording and a good mix. Also a good write. Good subject/idea for a write.
A few things to "take a look at"...
"You just dont recall" does not need the "just" - it gives you a slight "bump" (what Charlie was referring to on an earlier one) and would "sing better" without it. A little thing, but "how it falls on your listener's ear" is of ultimate importance. Elsewhere throughout the song you have done a good job of dropping the "unnecessary" words..
"All her hopes and dreams...Never bothered you at all" - again, you do not need the "All" (at the beginning) - it is stronger without and will "sing better"
"You never lost out on your sleep You never asked her why" Here, you did drop the "you" from the front of both of these when you sang it. Perfect.
"time to let another man try lead her to the stars" This gets a little "bumpy". You can drop "man" and you can drop "try" to become... "time to let another lead her to the stars" - - "another" implies a person. and dropping "try" tells a better story... you could not do it, but another will..
This is a very good write.
You could change the title to "An Unread Book". (It doesn't always have to be the last line).
fj
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"The Time to Look" is may favorite of the three. Great potential here. The common thread emerging so far is you are writing fast (good) but will be taking time to rewrite (better).
I hope (and expect) this one will make your album.
As time goes by, the lyric stumbles (bumps) will reveal themselves to you before you release the recording here on the forum. The fact all three were written while off visiting may be the major factor causing the bumps so far.
Looking forward to the next one.
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Hi Joanne,
like #3, too. Nice vocals and harmonies. Floyd seems to be a great mentor on the lyrics. Enjoyable listen.
Guenter
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Hi Josie,
Good job, good arrangements and beautiful voice ! The second song is perfect. The first one : at my first listening, I found that the piano was a bit too loud, at the second listening I found it was too present and I am asking to myself if it could be simply removed. I guess that the other instruments are sufficient to get the correct ambience. Just my feeling...
Cheers Pascal
No hay banda! There is no band! Il n'est pas de orchestra! No hay banda! And yet we hear a band ! (David Lynch - Mulholland Drive)
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Joanne just a couple of words of encouragement for I will leave all the adjustments to the experts. I enjoyed listening to both songs and I wish you the best as you move on to FAWM. Sonny
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Hi Joanne, This certainly is a beautiful song and you sing it very well! One (tiny, tinyn, tiny) nit as far as we're concerned: The music doesn't completely agree with the dramatic words of the first verse. Then the music is too cheerful for such a sad story. When she starts dreaming of life elsewhere music and lyrics fit very well. But we certainly think this is a very good contribution to FAWM. Lots of success! Rob and Anne-Marie +1 I agree that the music seems too cheerful. Very well sung. Song #2- I also didn't get the blanket part. Other than that the song was close to perfect. Song #3, I agree with floyd's observations. The title should be An Unread Book. Nicely done! Tom
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Floyd, Charlie, Guenter, Pascal, Sonny and Tommy Thanks for listening and commenting. All your comments are very well noted and much appreciated. I will definitely live with all the songs for a few months, perform them on SJ etc so they will definitely evolve before I record again.
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Song # 4 Toxic Surfer Co-write with Peter Geach In South Africa we have quite a unique method of recycling. We have these guys who come "surfing" down our streets on homemade trolleys on a Monday morning. They go through our wheelie bins. Mainly routing for plastic recyclable plastic. They then take their haul to the depot and trade it in for a few Rands. Pete gave me a poem about these guys and this is the song that was produced. I will try and get a photo on Monday of someone with their buffalo bag full to brimming with plastic bottles. Feedback appreciated. TOXIC SURFER Photo credit: Jeff Harrisberg Lyrics: You walk for miles and miles dirty bag in tow Your flat bed trolly keeping pace Tiny wheels spin like tops in the toughs Gripping hard on the crests Clack KD Clack goes the toxic surfer Clack KD clack down the road always room for another plastic vessel Before you merchandise your load A plastic junkie in your helmet balaclava Reclaimed takkies for brakes No time to drink no time to smoke Your street of wheelie bins awaits RealTracks in style: 2421:Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySlapBoomChicka Ev16 100 RealTracks in style: 2424:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm RockabillyBoomChickaKevin Ev 100 RealTracks in style: 2422:Guitar, Baritone Electric, Rhythm BoomChickaRootFiveBrent Ev16 100 RealTracks in song: 1518:Guitar, Electric, Soloist CountryWorkinBrent Ev16 090 RealDrums in style: BoomChickaEv16^01-a: Brush, Train, b: Rods, Train RT2010:Guitar, Resonator, Soloist CountryWorkinRob Ev16 090
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I enjoyed my listen of Toxic Surfer. I think it is a good song for FAWN but may have limited world wide appeal as the subject matter may not be widely known so maybe a questionable song for your future album.
There could be many instances here where I live that a 'toxic surfer' would catch quite a bit of flack if caught rifling through trash.
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Hi Josie,
I enjoyed Toxic Surfer. Thanks for the picture.
Guenter
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This is SUCH an interesting exercise because the feedback I am getting can be immediately applied to the next song I write. Keep the feedback coming, I really appreciate it and it is definitely making this a better FAWM for me. This one I have tried to cut out all the unnecessary words (I can still see a few that can be cut next time) I have tried to match the backing with the lyrics a bit better, tried to use more appropriate images and also tried to make the theme more generic, so hopefully that all makes me a better songwriter! I quite like this one and feel it may have some potential with a little polishing. Song Number 5 Like a Lady (no co-writers on this one). LIKE A LADY I dont pretend to know dont know all the things dont know all a boy could do to give his lady wings If our daughters knew there different kinds of men some treat her like lady some like a friend Some will make the small things count others count all the small things You got to know how to treat her like a lady You got to know how to treat her like a queen Make her feel like a princess clothe her in dignity She'd know a caring man not one that's careless One that lends a hand not one that's helpless Our daughters would settle for those different kinds of men They treat her like a lady Not just a friend CHORUS if we teach our girls to separate the two then teach our sons to be that man CHORUS Realtacks RT521:Bass, Electric, Pop Syncopated Ev 136 RealDrums-NashvilleSkip^01-SideStick,Ride RT1292:Accordion, Rhythm TexMexCountry Ev 120 RT2035:Mandolin, Soloist CountryAndy Ev 120 RT1571:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Soul60sHighQuarters Ev 110 RT406:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 136 RT522:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 120 And a Dimension Pro Xylophone based on a BIAB midi melody
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Commented about Like a Lady over in FAWM-land, so I won't repeat that here.
One note of caution (that I never listen to myself!): The more arranging you do on the first cut (and the addition of all those instruments), the harder it might become to finalize the song, especially if you need to do any major changes.
You may want to do a few FAWM tunes with just guitar/vocal (and harmony) and then play it 100 times before doing the BIAB version. But at the same time your arrangements are pretty good as is, so maybe just keep doing what you are doing (ha, ha).
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Thanks Kevin. Yes I will definitely be doing a few acoustic tracks as the time gets shorter. I am not going to have the energy to keep doing the full BIAB production (although with the way I play the guitar it is probably quicker ha ha!). I will be performing the tracks on SJ and Periscope many times over the next few months and that way gauging which ones to use on my album. As you know I do like to perform with backing tracks on SJ.
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This one I have tried to cut out all the unnecessary words (I can still see a few that can be cut next time) I have tried to match the backing with the lyrics a bit better, tried to use more appropriate images and also tried to make the theme more generic, so hopefully that all makes me a better songwriter!
Song Number 5 Like a Lady (no co-writers on this one).
Joanne - you have accomplished all of that on this one. A solid write. The prosody is excellent. That allowed you to sing this like it was a song that you had known a long time. (the harmonies were quite nice, too). Keep it up... fj
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#5: Like a Lady:
This is really good. My favorite so far. I'm enjoying following along your journey.
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Hi Joanne,
The melody and prosody for "Treat Her Like A Lady" are excellent. I found it a very enjoyable listen!
I have a couple of lyric suggestions about consolidating the song's point-of-view (i.e. who is talking to whom and why) but I'm not sure if you'd prefer me to post them here so that everything is kept in a single thread or to send them to you in an email. Please let me know.
I have to say that your songwriting really has grown! As mentioned above, I really enjoyed this.... a great deal.
Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Hi Noel. I think if you could post them here that would be great because then everyone can benefit.
Thanks to Floyd and Charlie as well.
The interesting thing about doing fawm is that you just write, record and move on immediately. When I am "not in fawm", I usually get "stuck" and then usually abandon the song. In fawm there is no abandoning because if you have already invested time in a song you are not going to throw that time away. So you keep plugging away at the song until it is good enough to record and then move on. Some of the results are surprising. My next song I started out hating but by the time I had "finished" I quite liked it.
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Hi Joanne,
very interesting arrangement. Very entertaining. Great vocals and harmonies. Enjoyable listen.
Guenter
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Song # 6 (nearly half way.. Phew) Watching Time Co-write with my friend Rachael Scherf WATCHING TIME It doesnt seem that long ago You were barely two Id have to leave my warm dark bed to keep an eye on you Longing for the hours to pass I'watch the time tick by but when you wait time seems to crawl when I would have it fly Wishing I had more time for myself Guiltily I hold my breath watching time guilty then is a mother's fate watching time You grew so fast and sure you were nearly ten I couldn't watch your tennis match wasnt time back then Wouldnt help out at your fair TIME I cried once more The days flew by in such a rush faster than before Wishing I had more time for my child Time marches by you have children of your own Time has slowed right down again Now that you are gone wishing I had more time
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Hi, Jo !:))
This must be one of your absolutely best ! Love the chords and your beautiful vocals !!!:))
Cheers Dani
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Joanne, I at least wanted to offer encouragement. I know you are looking for suggestions as well, but what you are getting is so great already, I wouldn't know what to ad.
So, that being said, I do really like the your music AND your delivery of it...also the suggestions being made. I'm educating myself by listening (see my name) from your triumphs!
It's a great thread to witness the power of the forum we have and talent like yours!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier) TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Hi Joanne,
re Watching Time I like the story. Good vocals and harmonies. The single line BGV towards the end doesn't quite fit the chords. Enjoyed listening.
Guenter
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Hi Joanne. I'm not sure what FAWM is but I like the tune!! The Who did a song with a similar theme in the 60's-Little Billy. This is well done, and it's always great to see justice, even if it's just in a song. Nice job. Mix and arrangement are excellent! Take care. Greg
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Awesome endeavor Josie. I've listened and tomorrow while traveling we'll stream them back to back.
I'm lucky to squeeze out one song a month!
Bud
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Song number 7: Half way through. Will she make it to the end? What is the time in Amsterdam. WHATS THE TIME IN AMSTERDAMCopyright Arthur Rossi and Joanne Cooper 2016 These wonderful lyrics were provided by Arthur Rossi on FAWM who has written over 50 sets of lyrics and invited collaborators to put music to them. It is so wonderful to work with an already well thought out set of lyrics. I loved the concept as soon as I saw it and put together this country swing version. Now I live in Chicago I'll get along just fine I wonder what my boyfriend's doin' left in Amsterdam I stand up in the morning prepare some eggs and ham is he awake or is he sleepin' there in Amsterdam? Morning time, evening time is it 3 am I dont know what time it is right now in Amsterdam Morning time, evening time is it 8 pm heaven knows what time it is right now in Amsterdam Is he lonely and does he still remember who I am Does he know how much I love him Out in Amsterdam Is he sad and does he miss me will I find another man I Cant find another one My love's in Amsterdam Chorus bridge When there are the moments the hands of those clocks meet In that time I guess, maybe he still thinks of me heaven knows what time it is right now in Amsterdam Realtracks: (I didn't do too much to BIABs style with this one) RealTracks in style: ~539:Bass, Electric, Pop Sw 120 RealTracks in style: 2124:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm CountryShuffleJohn Sw 120 RealTracks in style: ~372:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Hank Sw 120 RealDrums in style: NashvilleBrushesClassicShuffle: a: Sidestick, Brushes b: Brushes, WHATS THE TIME IN AMSTERDAM WHATS THE TIME IN AMSTERDAM
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Hi Josie, Here are my previously mentioned comments on the lyrics of Like A Lady. Before I comment, I'd like to say that the below is just my perspective. I'm only one person I apologise in advance if what I write comes across as anything other than an opinion. I sincerely like this song. As I listened, though, thoughts occurred to me. Then, as I thought about it more, other thoughts occurred to me. I completely understand that the whole point of FAWM is to get drafts down as quickly as possible and then move on. The transformation of drafts into full blown songs and productions comes after February. To start with... here's my analysis The Song's WHYAs I heard it, the lyric concerns a parent singing about his or her daughter and offering 'boys' some advice. This lyric is cleverly constructed because it could be sung by either a mum or a dad. In the first half of verse 1, the parent speaks and talks about 'a boy' in third person. This section has a good, general feel about it. The second half now uses first person plural and talks inclusively about 'our daughters'. The use of 'some' as a pronoun is still presenting 'men' in third person... i.e. talking about them not to them. The use of 'our' gave me the impression that the singer seemed to be expressing the thoughts of all parents of daughters. - For me, by this stage in the song, I'd formed the image in my mind that the singer is talking to a group of parents of daughters about how things could be better if the daughters were more aware of mens' qualities.
Now comes the chorus... With the use of 'you', the perspective initially sounded like the singer is referring generally with the plural 'you' to the group of parents. Then it changes. I was a little confused because it sounded like 'you' was also meant for the 'men' who, up until this point, had only been present in third person... now it seemed like the singer had turned around to a group of men on the other side of the stage from the parents and was addressing them directly. When the song finished, and I looked at the words, I saw that 'you' could be being used in the general sense of 'one'. When I substituted 'one' into the chorus... One has to know how to treat her like a lady One has to know how to treat her like a queen How to make her feel like a princess And clothe her with dignity
… it worked so 'you' could definitely be used in this general sense. I didn't hear it that way though. Also, with the last line of the chorus, it occurred to me that 'with' dignity might work better because 'in' dignity is easily confused with the word 'indignity' and it's very different meaning. The second verse and bridge also seemed to talk to parents sometimes and men sometimes. It also sounded like the singer might be the representative of a group of parents here too. For theses reasons, streamlining the perspective, so that any hint of confusion is removed, is worth playing around with. At this point, it occurred to me that choruses often work better when they're stripped of pronouns because then they can be easily coloured by whatever pronoun(s) and tense leads into them from the verse. The only pronoun I needed to keep was 'her' since the chorus is about the daughter. To strip a chorus of pronouns, the simplest way is often to change verbs into their '-ing' form. The infinitive form of the verb is also useful for this (e.g. I've used 'to get' in the below). These verb forms work well with any tense that's used in the verse (past, present, future). Doing this led me to... ...knowing how to treat her like a lady knowing how to treat her like a queen how to get her feeling like a princess and clothing her with dignity
With no personal pronouns other than 'her' in the chorus, I now needed to develop a trigger phrase (or word) that could give the chorus meaning relative to a specific perspective in the preceding verse. Playing around with this, led me to... 'It's all about...” or maybe just “It's...” or even “If you want to make her happy, it's...” Ok... this is when I thought I'd create a situation in my mind and shape the lyrics to that situation. For this particular 'who is the singer talking to' and 'why', I thought I'd try the scenario that a young man has come around to ask a mum if he can take her daughter out. They are standing at the front door talking. This then leads to the mother reaching down and grabbing her guitar and singing to the young man with some advice about how he should treat her daughter. It's fortunate that she keeps a guitar beside the door for emergencies such as this Thus... I don't pretend to know don't know all the things don't know all a boy could do to give his lady wings My daughter's unaware That there are different kinds of men That some will treat her like a lady Some like a friend That some will make the small things count While others count all the small things If you want to make her happy It's knowing how to treat her like a lady Knowing how to treat her like a queen How to get her laughing like a princess And wrapping her in solid golden dignity The question now arises as to how to develop verse 2 so that the emotional intensity increases while keeping my above scenario in mind. Maybe moving into questions could work... Are you a caring man And not a man who's careless? Will you always lend a hand And not be someone helpless? Can you protect my daughter From those different kinds of men And make her feel she's special Not just a friend? It's the little things that matter And knowing how to treat her like a lady Knowing how to treat her like a queen How to get her laughing like a princess And wrapping her in solid golden dignity The bridge's perspective again moves to the group of parents and addresses them in relation to sons and daughters. Since a bridge often works well when the philosophical content is boosted and also since its meaning usually colours the final chorus, I played around with some 'bigger picture' ideas like... 'what's the meaning of life?', etc... a metaphor could work well here... This led to the metaphor "the road of life" which eventually yielded... Life's road is often bumpy There are challenges galore No-one ever really knows what heaven has in store For a man and a woman, though, it begins with... Knowing how to treat her like a lady Knowing how to treat her like a queen How to get her laughing like a princess And wrapping her in solid golden dignity Here's a link to a pdf of the whole lyric... Hope what I've written is useful. Please feel completely free to throw it away! All the best, Noel Edit: modified a couple of lyrics
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Noel. Thank you SO SO much for taking the time to post this. I think everyone can and will benefit from the detailed thinking that you have laid out for us. Love the bit about having her guitar handy at the door! That is classic!. Very funny.
I can see how the perspective of the song would be a bit confusing!
I think the chorus is what makes it confusing with the use of the pronoun "You". The song is not really trying to talk to the "boys" (nor is it trying to talk to the girls for that matter). It is actually talking to the "parents". It is saying we (as parents) need to teach our daughters that there are different kinds of men and to teach her to distinguish between the ones who "lust" after her and the ones that "love" her, ones that are careful (not careless..etc).
Then once we've taught our daughters that, then we need to teach our sons to be that "different type of man" (one that treats her like a princess etc). I think the song will work if I reword the chorus to exclude the "you" to somehow say "there are men who will treat a woman like a princess....etc
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Trying to get a couple of songs out over the weekend! Real job is getting in the way! Song number 8 Co-write with fellow FAWMer Arthur Rossi again THE TRAIN TO PHNOM PENH What a wonderful set of lyrics this was. All the exotic place names were just fantastic. I has to spend a bit of time on Youtube to figure out how to pronounce them (but still probably got it wrong!) I’m stuck out here in Sisophon, the station's ghostly in the dawn, rusting tracks, abandoned logs, three old shacks, two street dogs, a mild breeze blows in June… I'll leave before the great monsoon… waiting for the train to Phnom Penh… Geckos scurry by a stone, the platform’s empty overgrown… a pelican, a watercock, now and then kids draw with chalk, They say “Hey mam, you wait in vain, we have never seen a train, no, there is no more train to Phnom Penh…” (Chorus) Now and then... people come and people go... “you know, they closed this line long ago” I keep waiting for the train to come waiting for the train to Phnom Penh… I’m stuck out here in Sisophon, clocks don’t work, hours drag on... cranes fly by, disappear... why am I sitting here? wild orchids sway and bloom... I'll leave before the great monsoon… waiting for the train to Phnom Penh… (Chorus) Now and then... people come and people go... “you know, they closed this line long ago” I keep waiting for the train to come waiting for the train to Phnom Penh… (Bridge) They say "Mam we gotta to be frank Can’t even get to Battambang... there is no train to Phnom Penh...” (Chorus) Now and then... people come and people go... “you know, they closed this line long ago” I keep waiting for the train to come waiting for the train to Phnom Penh… Realtracks: I am running out of energy to do too much with the standard styles that BIAB gives me. I didn't do anything with this one!! RealTracks in style: ~537:Bass, Acoustic, Pop Sw 165 RealTracks in style: 616:Mandolin, Rhythm Bouncy Sw 165 RealTracks in style: ~812:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Western Swing Sw 165 RealTracks in style: ~373:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Hank Sw 165 RealDrums in style: Nashville2BeatSw8^01-a:Sidestick , b:Snare, Ride
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Josie,
I won't presume to critique you, you are light-years beyond my songwriter skills.
Perhaps I listen first to the music and then to the story-line. To my ear, your chord progression is too similar between songs. On #1, a musical phrase jumped at me that reminded me too much like another of your earlier songs.
Having an immediately identifiable "signature" is something that will fall into place later. Meanwhile, it's a distraction.
I hope I'm articulating properly without offending. My observation wouldn't amount to a hair on a freckle on a frog's wart.
You go girl!
Donny
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Noel. Thank you SO SO much for taking the time to post this. I think everyone can and will benefit from the detailed thinking that you have laid out for us. Love the bit about having her guitar handy at the door! That is classic!. Very funny.
I can see how the perspective of the song would be a bit confusing!
I think the chorus is what makes it confusing with the use of the pronoun "You". The song is not really trying to talk to the "boys" (nor is it trying to talk to the girls for that matter). It is actually talking to the "parents". It is saying we (as parents) need to teach our daughters that there are different kinds of men and to teach her to distinguish between the ones who "lust" after her and the ones that "love" her, ones that are careful (not careless..etc).
Then once we've taught our daughters that, then we need to teach our sons to be that "different type of man" (one that treats her like a princess etc). I think the song will work if I reword the chorus to exclude the "you" to somehow say "there are men who will treat a woman like a princess....etc Ahhh... thank you for the insight. I'm glad my ideas were potentially useful. Happy writing.... you're doing a great job so far! Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Josie,
I won't presume to critique you, you are light-years beyond my songwriter skills.
Perhaps I listen first to the music and then to the story-line. To my ear, your chord progression is too similar between songs. On #1, a musical phrase jumped at me that reminded me too much like another of your earlier songs.
Having an immediately identifiable "signature" is something that will fall into place later. Meanwhile, it's a distraction.
I hope I'm articulating properly without offending. My observation wouldn't amount to a hair on a freckle on a frog's wart.
You go girl!
Donny Thank you So much Don. I appreciate the feedback. After the first few songs they all start sounding the same! I start singing a song and I go "wait a minute, I've already written this. I wrote it yesterday!". As an aside, apparently Paul McCartney thought he had already written "Yesterday". I think it comes from writing them all so close together! I am going to try writing some more acoustic stuff next, just with my guitar, so hopefully that will have some different influences!
Ahhh... thank you for the insight. I'm glad my ideas were potentially useful.
Happy writing.... you're doing a great job so far!
Regards, Noel
Thank you Noel. I have taken careful notes for when I get round to the rewrites.
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Good work so far. Fun watching. Will jump in here and say I've noted the same as Don about the musical familiarity.
I know you've got a good handle on it.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Hi Joanne,
Like No 7 and 8. Enjoyable listen.
Guenter
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Song number 8 Co-write with fellow FAWMer Arthur Rossi again THE TRAIN TO PHNOM PENH
A very interesting lyric. Good melody and music. It's an enjoyable listen.
The vocal seems a little hot (just a little bit of distortion that shouldn't be there...)
fj
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"Perhaps I listen first to the music and then to the story-line. To my ear, your chord progression is too similar between songs. On #1, a musical phrase jumped at me that reminded me too much like another of your earlier songs."
Ha, ha -- it is FAWM and that happens all the time. Beside I write songs with similar melodies and chord progressions from past years. It takes a lot of effort to stretch and add new chords (or voicings) and melodies.
I've heard that the majority of us really only write about 5 "unique" songs -- we just keep writing those same 5 over and over again (with slight variations here and there).
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It was a confession, of sorts. I have a favorite chord progression that is recurrent in most of my tunes. What worked once should work again!
I think Joanne understands that I wasn't knocking her, just a personal observation. Her reply shows that she's aware of the repetitive nature of genius.
A wine connoisseur can immediately tell the vintner, year, perhaps even who stomped the grapes and on what day of the week. She is an excellent vintner and storyteller.
Furthermore, the works of the greatest composers are generally recognized upon hearing just a few notes. Bumpapapaa!
I've forgotten the source but someone once said: "A masterpiece is merely a work in progress."
Donny
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I must say once again that I really appreciate everyone who has take the time to listen to any of the songs and make comments. During the course of this month I have adjusted my sails as the comments have been coming in and I think that has made this the MOST fantastic experience of my life. I can honestly recommend it to anyone. Here is song number 9 (on the downward slope now!) ALL USED UP These lyrics were offered up by fellow FAWMer John Hudome who said he "didn't wan to get too far into FAWM without posting anything" so he posted up these lyrics. They are infinitely relatable. I don't think there is one of us that can say that they haven't felt "All used up" a relationship at some time or other. Lyrics: I no longer like it I don’t care what you say Isn’t now a good fit Just feel in the way Have your time without me Ribbons in my hair Trimmings on the fir tree Better I’m not there Used to be exciting Couldn’t wait to see What would be there waiting For you and for me Efforts now been thwarted Trapped as in a snare buzzing head sounds for free Guess you just don’t care Chorus: And I’m all used up No where to go All used up After the show All used up So now you know I’m all used up The end is coming slow Realtracks: I found the most awesome realtrack! The folk sorrow guitar track! wow. Okay so the tempo doesn't match the final song but I think it did a good job of adjusting! RealTracks in style: ~2474:Bass, Acoustic, Held Ev 085 RealTracks in style: 2548:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm FolkSorrow Ev16 090 RealDrums in style: BrushesBoomChickEv16: a: Brushes Smoothb: Brushes Boom ******************* As Floyd would day "Have at it"
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Joanne,
I listened to all of them, and of all of them all “Be Brave” and “Watching Time” seem closest to an album song in terms of a great production and an identifiable or branded “sound.” Not that you should use ukulele on every song, but these two songs were very simple and warm, and your vocals are excellent and warm as well. This particular simplicity of instruments and tonalities fits your voice and lyrical story telling style very well: it sort of cradles your voice in the warmth of the production, if that makes any sense. If I were producing this, I would strive for this level of warmth, and groove, and in the pocket production on all of the songs. Kind of like a James Taylor album---all of the songs might be different, but they usually all have a similar sound and tonality in the warmth and production. I would use these songs as your touchstones for producing the rest, they turned out really well. On some of the others, I like the songs, but found the instrumentation to be a little jarring or high pitched, in contrast with these productions which really cradled your voice. To me, your very warm, earthy voice tones should be cradled in musical warmth on all of these songs and any instrumentation that does not provide a warm pocket for the voice should be avoided. This album—to me—seems like it is a showcase for your voice, and not the instruments, which need to take second place. Hope this makes sense. If it does, I will be happy to take a listen to all tunes again if they are redone on a song by song basis just to give my production feedback as to whether I feel they are providing that warm pocket for your voice, or are distracting from your voice, should that feedback be useful. Great job with the writing so far. Really excellent material.
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David. Wow! Thank you so much for your detailed feedback. Thank you for taking the time to listen to all the songs. I am intrigued with what appeals and what doesn't. I take all your points very seriously and will definitely think about your kind offer when I do the album
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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Song #10 Her Serenity HER SERENITY I have absolutely no idea where this one came from! It started out from my own point of view, getting older, on the homeward journey, grey hair, getting wiser etc...etc using a metaphor of a boat or ship. Then I changed the point of view to "Her" instead of "I" and everything changed. Now, when I listen to it, it could have been written for a friend of mine who passed away from cancer in May last year. And it makes me weep. Not the intention I had when I started but thought I would just Fawm it and move on. Her deck is rough and slightly worn sails no longer bright ropes a little salty stiff stays no longer tight She'll start the homeward journey now set her sails again Sail before the heaving seas wind behind her main feel splendor in Serenity Find beauty in simiplicty See the wonder of Symmerty I know she'll find her Serenity She's been learning all the way That life is not a race slow and even fair or fowl To set a steady pace She's learned to sail the boat alone tried to ride the storm found that endings start with one She'll steer her ship back home Realtracks RealTracks in song: ~518:Bass, Electric, Pop HalfNotes Ev 085 RealTracks in song: ~896:Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Rhythm FolkRock Ev 100 RealTracks in song: ~2200:Guitar, Nylon, Background CountryBrent Ev 085 RealTracks in song: 1856:Cello, Background PopCountry Ev 085 RT2457:Strings, Rhythm CelticAir Ev 085 And a dimension pro violin
Last edited by JosieC; 02/18/16 04:54 AM.
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Josie,
I'm "sold" before listening.
You have an uncanny ability to radiate love, warmth, respect, and empathy in your glowing personality. You are bulldog-tenacious in your loyalty to your myriad friends.
If we could bottle that, the world would be a much brighter place.
Donny
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Song #10 Her Serenity
A very nice write! Your prosody in this is excellent.
Typically, you would want to have your hook or title repeat - at the beginning and end of the chorus is always a good repeat... in this one (this is just an opinion of course), I think it would be more effective if you could find another word (first line) similar to the others and leave Serenity until that last line.
You are doing great!
fj
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Joanne,
Best of luck with FAWM - quite the undertaking. I admire your efforts.
I'm a big fan of your latest song, Her Serenity. Love the lyrics and the way that you deliver this one...
Bob
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Bob, Don and Floyd. Thanks for the latest comments. Point taken about the word "Serenity" Floyd It is NEARLY OVER. Don't know if I am going to miss it or be relieved. I think the big take home for me is just how many great song writers take part in this every year. This guy Arthur Rossi who I have collaborated with in Whats the Time in Amsterdam, The Train to Phnom Penh and this one has written nearly 100 sets of lyrics during FAWM (He aims to reach 100, of which many are in German). 31 of these lyrics have been set to music by various FAWMers. An incredible achievement! I am half (and only half) tempted to give 50 90 a whirl...... Here is song # 11
I HATE PLANES with Arthur Rossi
Lyrics The airport is as airports are, cold, a little dark, and today you’re leaving, and today you’re leaving... your bags already on the flight there’s half a life inside, today you’re leaving, today you’re leaving... (Chorus) I hate planes, if they were not there, you'd still be here you’d be my darling, still my dear and all’d be the same... I hate planes, oh, I hate planes... I just wished the'rd be no planes, no ships, no cars, no trains, so you’d not be leaving, so you’d not be leaving... I hope you’ll think of us, don’t look back through that glass when you are leaving, when you are leaving (Chorus) I hate planes, if they were not there, you’d still be here, you’d be my darling, still my dear, and all’d be the same... I hate planes, oh, I hate planes... Realtracks: RealTracks in style: ~684:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesSync Ev 120 RealTracks in style: ~522:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 120 RealTracks in style: ~1677:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking CountryBrent Ev 120 MIDI SuperTracks in style: 2060:Strings, Rhythm PopCountry Ev 120 RealDrums in style: NashvilleEven8^3-a:Sidestick, HiHat , b:Snare, HiHat Open
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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Josie,
Sorry to be so stupid, helpless, and ill-informed, but you had a mellow, Folk Acoustic Guitarist on a recent song (don't even remember song title) but I think it perfect for a current project. Please help me find that specific style.
As wonderful as the new Style Picker is, it depends upon the Irish user to prompt it with ACCURATE data. I know it was FOLK>ACOUSTIC>GUITAR but that leads to dozens of styles to audition. Hopefully, you can give me the style NAME. Hint: It's one of your a new FAWM songs.
Thanks,
Donny
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LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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As heard at Sutter's Mill - Eureka, we've found it!
What's the name, Jo?
Last edited by Don Gaynor; 02/20/16 05:15 AM.
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As heard at Sutter's Mill - Eureka, we've found it!
What's the name, Jo? RealTracks in style: 2548:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm FolkSorrow Ev16 090
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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Such a gorgeous laid-back style a beautiful ending.
Donny
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Song # 12 Uncovered with Cynthia Wolff I will hopefully get one more song done before the end of Feb (I have another collab that I have promised so I had better!) Last weekend they had a whole weekend of "Skirmishes". This is were somebody hosts an hour of intense songwriting. They publish a topic and people write a song, record and publish in an hour! I wrote something really bad..(I guess it takes practice..I wont post it here) but someone called Cynthia Wolff wrote a wonderful lyric that really spoke to me because it was quite close to the bone to what has happened to me (and many many others). So I offered to put her lyric to music and this is the result. I am drifting. A country without law. my unprotected skin Worn and torn and raw Exposed and vulnerable Pulled from my home Taken from my country Left alone to roam Bombs bursting Bricks tumbling Down Down Down All around me now history Down Down Down Down Down Underneath the night sky No bed to call my own Had to flee my homeland Left alone to roam What gives you the right To treat man this way Uncovered and exposed Homeless left to stray Gone is everything Our pride our dignity Where lies the blame for this inhumanity Where lies the blame Realtracks RealTracks in song: ~~701:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesSync Ev 085 RealTracks in song: 887:Piano, Acoustic, Solo-Accompaniment FolkPopPrairie Ev 100 RealTracks in style: ~~365:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 085 RealDrums in Song: NashvilleEven8^1-a:Sidestick, HiHat , b:Snare, Ride Final stretch now so any comments most welcome...
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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It's your normal fabulous, Jo!
I especially like the theme and story-line. Sometimes it is okay to leave the listeners "down, down, down". In this case, your having actually experienced it adds an element impossible to imitate. You've turned negative experience into a valuable asset.
You go, girl!
Donny
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Hi Joanne,
I listened to the last 3 songs and I like them all. It's always a pleasure to listen to your vocals and harmonies.
Guenter
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Phew! It is over and the fat lady has sung. I managed to get my count of 14 new songs (the missing one is one that I am too embarrassed to post because it was a one hour skirmish). Thanks to everyone who has listened to any of the songs and taken the time to comment. Kevin Emmrich has also been a great encouragement for me.It is much appreciated. I hope I can now get back to some listening.(I sound like I just won an Oscar!) FAWM really is a wonderful experience and I highly recommend it to all forum members. The highlight for me has been the collaborations, which have all been extremely easy and productive. Band in a Box is the most awesome too for something like this. I have had loads of comments about the production of my tracks. I have also had loads of comments and questions on my harmonies so I am going to do a blog post on my website shortly to explain exactly how I have been doing those. The last song is this one that is a collaboration with John Hudome called Stuck in my mind
Lyrics: Sun is setting in the west Maybe I can get some rest Days I sit here locked inside Living here inside my mind Lost in thoughts of yesterday Doesn’t matter anyway Darker thoughts haunting me on my own by never free Prechoruse I know you don’t understand Try to do the best I can Find the place I'm looking for Still I hope to find more Fear there’s nothing left inside Chorus … Tears, pain showing on my face… … Fears, again, echo in this place… … You say you're coming back some time… … I live here waiting stuck here in my mind Last call, its all too clear closing time is near Shut it down and lock the door I expect, nothing more Brige Floating on a cloud Music plays too loud Words are all unclear Turning hope to fear Realtracks: RealTracks in song: 908:Bass, Electric, SmoothBallad Ev16 065 RealTracks in style: ~364:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 065 RealTracks in style: ~368:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 065 Tambourine even8ths RT409:Fiddle, Background George Ev 08
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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Congrats! That more song's than we've written in the last year and a half!
We really do admire you for taking on an endeavor like this AND being successful with it.
And that is a nice tune to close it all out with.
J&B
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Josie,
I've long since quit trying to limit the boundaries of your talent and physical energy.
You are very talented, my friend.
A subtlety that I especially liked was the held fiddle note ending. Not Earth shaking but a very pleasant surprise - ear candy.
I'll go back and re-listen before commenting on the storyline or lyrics. That requires more attention that is impossible here.
Donny.
PS: I'm glad FAWM is over. I've been suffering Josie withdrawal on SJ. (Smile)
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Hi Joanne, Congrats! That more song's than we've written in the last year and a half! We really do admire you for taking on an endeavor like this AND being successful with it. And that is a nice tune to close it all out with. For me it's one year. Respect! I'm looking forward to the end results after editing. Guenter
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