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#132090 - 10/27/11 02:23 PM More - More VLT and BIAB
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Thought best to start fresh with current problem versus rehashing where we have been. However, if you are new to this and give a hoot, or if you have forgotten, here is where we left off:

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=334310&an=0&page=1#Post334310

Created a subdirectory - Gig Favorites using BLT, in order to work on selected songs which I will have some vocal component and want BIAB to control Harmonies in the VLT. These songs need a Midi Melody track converted to Audio and they need to have the DXi softsynth disabled so MIDI does not get redirected to DXi.

First Problem - when I render the midi melody it does not incorporate any of the F5 Bar Settings and just plays the melody over every verse. I had to fix this in my DAW to play only over the first and last chorus of my arrangement. OK, I can work with this.

Second Problem - While BIAB now sends MIDI to my VLT - based on the settings in the Pref-OutPutChords, it only works for the first chorus! This is a show stopper since it does not continue to send MIDI over the final chorus. If I Edit-Unfold (Convert to 1-Chorus) it then sends MIDI for the entire tune. But then none of the F5 bar settings are followed... What’s with that??

Here I go again… I know, I am doing it to myself.
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Jazzmandan
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#132091 - 10/28/11 09:51 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
TerryB Offline
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 63
Loc: Blue Springs MO
So if I am following what you want to do is:

1. Use BIAB as your live accompnient.
2. Have it drive the harmony notes that the VLT will create.

Is that correct? I assume that you are trying to do this with the MP3 aux on the back and feeding an audio signal or are you trying to feed it midi?

I thought on the TC products you could set the scale and feed it any MP3 or audio track and get it to recognize and produce melody.

Thanks,

Terry
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#132092 - 10/28/11 11:44 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: TerryB]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 3606
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

So if I am following what you want to do is:

1. Use BIAB as your live accompnient.
2. Have it drive the harmony notes that the VLT will create.

Is that correct? I assume that you are trying to do this with the MP3 aux on the back and feeding an audio signal or are you trying to feed it midi?

I thought on the TC products you could set the scale and feed it any MP3 or audio track and get it to recognize and produce melody.

Thanks,

Terry




You got it right with items 1 and 2.

However, while the VLT is very versitile and has multiple options for inputs to drive harmony, I wanted what I felt would be the best input option, MIDI from BIAB. Heck, BIAB has a feature specifically for this exact purpose where it outputs midi triads and simple extensions to drive vocal harmonizers. And since the VLT is the Sound Device, I selected to input the MIDI to the VLT via the USB.

In my mind the VLT is not limiting me at all, it is just the hoops I have to jump through to work with BIAB in this circumstance. My arrangementss are already fully arranged BIAB backings which I have used for several years - having to make significant changes to redo the arrangemetns to work with the VLT is not what I expected nor what I want to do, but alas....
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#132093 - 10/28/11 12:26 PM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
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I think you should try a reboot and then a Return to Factory Settings and then see if your F5 commands are recognized. One step at a time...


--Mac
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#132094 - 10/28/11 01:06 PM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: Mac]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Quote:

I think you should try a reboot and then a Return to Factory Settings and then see if your F5 commands are recognized. One step at a time...


--Mac




Will do Mac, good suggestion, ...but I find that the arrangements I make using F5 - who plays what when,- do not always work well with other features. My guess is F5 was a later generation addition to the program and is not fully integrated with all other features. But what do I know?

I'll let you know one way or the other.
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#132095 - 10/28/11 01:08 PM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
Mac Offline
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
F5 seems to be working okay here, if that's any help.


--Mac
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#132096 - 10/28/11 01:33 PM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: Mac]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Quote:

F5 seems to be working okay here, if that's any help.


--Mac




1) Load the BIAB file into RB and all the arrangements made using F5 will be lost.

2) Use the UnFold to 1 single chorus feature and all the arrangements made using F5 will be lost.

3) Output midi to a specific channel using OutputChords feature and it will only work on the first chorus, unless you Unfold to 1 single chorus, at which point refer to #2.


Your milage may vary...

Am I starting to sound like Eddie... (no offense my friend, just you and I do speak up when we are having issues.)
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Jazzmandan
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#132097 - 10/29/11 06:02 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Didn't catch it that RB was involved.

Since RB is going to lay things out Sequencer fashion, things will indeed be different when transferring a song to RB. A lot of those commands are likely tied up in the auto-arrangement code that is part of BB, I think.


--Mac
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#132098 - 10/29/11 06:23 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7111
Dan sent me a file and indeed in 2011.5 it's the same as he says however the F5 settings do come over but the solo changes do not. I suspect that the solos were not actually done with F5 but through the soloist or the RT medley maker.The song he sent had 5 choruses. I don't know how to get different solos in different choruses.
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#132099 - 10/29/11 06:30 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 3606
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

Dan sent me a file and indeed in 2011.5 it's the same as he says however the F5 settings do come over but the solo changes do not. I suspect that the solos were not actually done with F5 but through the soloist or the RT medley maker.The song he sent had 5 choruses. I don't know how to get different solos in different choruses.




John, solo changes were indeed done simply with F5 which in BIAB world will put a Solo-RT track into any chorus. That is how I "arrange" my BIAB backings. But these have never gone over properly into RB.

So what F5 setting come over if not the solo-RT tracks. How about just tuning on and off different rhythm tracks. I also use F5 for these and they also don't go over into RB.
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#132100 - 10/29/11 06:55 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
silvertones Offline
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Posts: 7111
Yea I figured it out while waiting for a reply.So it looks like either redo all you songs.Right! or figure something out. The issue here really boilds down to the fact that you want to use a DXi/VSTi and drive the VLT with the BIAB Send chords feature.
Let me install a HW midi device and see if I can make this work.
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#132101 - 10/29/11 07:20 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 3606
Loc: Chicago
Hold on, I may have stumbled upon somthing. At this moment everyting APPEARS to be working, with minimum adjustments!!!

I need to be able to "see" what is being sent on Midi Channel 9 to my VLT. Right now I only have the blinking light on the VLT to show me that midi is being received. My problem MAY be that I mute the midi melody channel after Chorus one - but the Melody is Channel 4?? and the OutputChords is sending on Channel 9, So why does the light stop blinking when i mute the melody and then beginning blinking when I unmute it.

It there some way in BIAB that I can actually "see" what is being sent on these individual midi channels.

I am trying to use Piano Roll to view the channels but am very very confussed on what is actually be used for each instrumetn... It seems I need to understand this to really get to the bottom of my problems.
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#132102 - 10/29/11 07:34 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
jazzmandan Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 3606
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

Yea I figured it out while waiting for a reply.So it looks like either redo all you songs.Right! or figure something out. The issue here really boilds down to the fact that you want to use a DXi/VSTi and drive the VLT with the BIAB Send chords feature.
Let me install a HW midi device and see if I can make this work.




I gave up on using the Dxi/VSti. Since only the melody track is midi, all others are RTs, therefore for selected songs which I will sing I have gone to rendering this single track as a wav which BIAB allows me one wav file with each tune. With this I now have all audio tracks. This allows me to direct midi to the VLT for these songs. Problem solved.

I just need to really understand all this midi channel stuff .... a work in progrss.
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Jazzmandan
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#132103 - 10/29/11 07:39 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7111
OK my findings and this IS messed up. I hooked up my Edirol.I set the "chord output" channel to #1 as that's not being used by any other parts.I loaded an all midi song and hit play. I can hear the chords from channel #1 as they're low in pitch. The weird thing is that if you mute the soloist part it also mutes the "output Chord" part.This should not happen but it does. Now the really bad part. If you have a RT on the soloist part the "chord output" is disabled and doesn't send chords. In Dan's case, or anyone for that matter, just deciding to use all RTs and sending the chords to the VLT WILL NOT WORK if there is a RT on the soloist.I couldn't find a way out of this. Dan your only choice in the matter is to redo all your songs in RB or run your guitar through the VLT.
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#132104 - 10/29/11 07:42 AM Re: More - More VLT and BIAB [Re: jazzmandan]
jazzmandan Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 3606
Loc: Chicago
Quote:


1) Load the BIAB file into RB and all the arrangements made using F5 will be lost.

2) Use the UnFold to 1 single chorus feature and all the arrangements made using F5 will be lost.

3) Output midi to a specific channel using OutputChords feature and it will only work on the first chorus, unless you Unfold to 1 single chorus, at which point refer to #2.





Well for those following along, #3 above has been busted. I now have OutputChords feature staying on for all choruses. It appears to be a midi channel thing.

Just wanted to set the record straight.
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