When using biab, if a instrument is select (one without a realtrack), how is the sound actually created on the pc? Is is just using some generic software (general midi)? Is there a way to improve the sound quality for those type sounds?
I'm using a firewire hardware interface (focusrite saffire) for connecting my instrument to pc and have the pc sound running into a pair of powered external speakers via this interface. Inside an audio program I usually choose the saffire as the output. I notice that there is usually a midi output selection option in many daw's and wasn't sure exactly what this should be set to. Is this just for midi signals?
When using biab, if a instrument is select (one without a realtrack), how is the sound actually created on the pc? Is is just using some generic software (general midi)? Is there a way to improve the sound quality for those type sounds?
I'm using a firewire hardware interface (focusrite saffire) for connecting my instrument to pc and have the pc sound running into a pair of powered external speakers via this interface. Inside an audio program I usually choose the saffire as the output. I notice that there is usually a midi output selection option in many daw's and wasn't sure exactly what this should be set to. Is this just for midi signals?
Thx Rut
The sound is created by a soft synth. Either the default GM or a specific one if you are selecting one.
GM or general Midi is the lowest quality synth sound. I use TTS which is better as my default synth. It comes with Cakewalk software DAW's. Above that are the synths like Kontakt that cost a few hundred dollars and use sampled sounds as opposed to software generated sounds. These are the most realist since they are actual instruments recorded as audio and triggered by the synth. Prices here can go way up from a low of a few hundred dollars to several thousand.
I also use the Focusrite Saffire interface with the same setup you do.
I have a mic and a guitar that get connected to it for audio. I also have a midi keyboard that connects to the midi port. Audio goes straight to the track and gets recorded.
Midi recording uses 2 tracks in my Sonar DAW. I do not work with MIDI in BB or RB. Data or midi, comes out of the midi controller/keyboard in a channel and goes to the saffire which sends it on to the software where it gets recorded in a midi track. It is recorded and output at the same time. Another track, an audio track has the synth in it. the midi track output is linked to the audio track (synth) input which creates the sound from the midi data and sends it to the saffire and the speakers.
You can also check my website.... for a more detailed setup description....here's the info: this is assuming TTS is the default synth and it's using 3 midi tracks and 1 audio track. TTS is one of the few good synths that supports multiple midi tracks..... most, like Kontakt only allow one midi track per instrument sound. To get more you simply insert more instances of the synth and add until your computer can't handle the load.
ADVANCED TTS set up and operation.
You only need one instance of TTS to be able to play 16 different midi tracks as 16 different instruments. In this demo I will explain just how you accomplish this by starting with 3 midi tracks and one instance of TTS.
So…open a new project ( I opened a normal project and deleted the audio track and then inserted the midi tracks needed and then inserted the soft synth) and insert 3 midi tracks and one instance of TTS. I have: Track 1 midi piano Track 2 midi bass Track 3 midi strings Track 4 Cakewalk TTS1-1 (audio track this is where TTS lives in this project)
Use the track icons…it makes it ease to know what track you are working on.
Understand that this is just a basic setup of TTS to show you how to setup multiple instruments in one instance of TTS and get it all working.
Set Track 1 (piano)
Input FR channel 6 Output 2-Cakewalk TTS1-1 Channel 1 Key 0 Bank & patch = piano
A NOTE about my set up..... Notice that all 3 tracks are using the same input....FR channel 6. (Focusrite=FR) This allows all three channels to “hear” the midi keyboard which I have set to transmit on channel 6. I could set each channel input to a different channel. By doing so I have to change the midi keyboard to transmit on that channel....none of the other channels will hear it, and that can be very useful in recording as you will see shortly.
By setting all 3 channels to the same midi input channel (channel 6) I am able to play all the parts into the three channels with out changing the midi transmit channel on my DX27S. I arm track 1 and record my parts doing the same for the next two tracks. Since the outputs are set to different channels they are sending their midi data to different channels in the TTS synth. The synth looks at the channel number, and routs that data to that channel and applied the patch & bank info you assigned to it and it carries out those instructions. The result is that you hear 3 different instruments playing from your speakers.
Hope this helps.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
.. how is the sound actually created on the pc? Is is just using some generic software (general midi)? Is there a way to improve the sound quality for those type sounds?
By default it is the generic MIDI sound set in Windows. You can change this default synth to Coyote Forte or TTS if they are available on the system.
You can also try other VST or DXi softsynths (or even external hardware synths), but by default you get the Windows sound set. The image below show how to access some of these options via the 'Options-Preferences-MIDI' path
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Thanks for the detailed information. At this time I'm not using midi inputs. As far as output sound goes, it sounds like I can choose the ones that come with BIAB or use a vst plugin synth?
A couple of followup questions
1. How do the real band sounds in biab compare to high quality synth sounds? Are they produced the same way?
2. Are there some synths that are known for realistic guitar sounds? Drums?
You have a third choice, mentioned briefly above by rharv: a hardware MIDI synth. Just be aware that your Focusrite is a good sound card but does not provide sound for MIDI. I have some Focusrite equipment, and I use Roland hardware synths for MIDI.
#1, with a really good hardware or software MIDI synth, you can get sounds comparable to the quality of the RealTracks, maybe better. In addition, you have complete control over the individual MIDI sounds in a way that RealTracks cannot match.
That leads the the second part of the question: they are produced in a totally different way. MIDI is a set of instructions to a software or hardware synth; MIDI has no sound of its own. RealTracks are snippets of audio recordings by actual (great) musicians, under control of BIAB. They couldn't be any more different in origin.
#2, this is a very subjective question. I know I hate the way all MIDI sounds on horns, because I play horns. Similarly, a MIDI guitar might sound OK to me, but perhaps would not sound OK to a guitarist. You will get all kinds of opinions, but if you can narrow down your selection to a few choices you might buy, then I suspect you could get better opinions from us users.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
1. RealTracks are recordings of actual instruments, so no they are not produced the same way.
2. In my opinion, some synths produce certain instruments well and others not so good. I don't use a lot of Midi anymore, so I have nothing to recommend. Prior to using RealTracks, I did a lot of Midi work and used a Korg keyboard as my sound module. Certain parts sounded really well (keyboards, bass) others sounded artificially produced (Fiddles, Cymbals). When I create a Midi part now, I use the Synth VST that is included in my DAW (StudioOne) as my sound module. I find drums to be a bit tricky. Certain parts of the kit sound really good through the synth, but I've yet to find a really good cymbal sound. My normal practice is to use RealDrums and then add individual hits in the DAW, either from WAV or Midi.
3. Welcome to the board.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
Thanks for the detailed information. At this time I'm not using midi inputs. As far as output sound goes, it sounds like I can choose the ones that come with BIAB or use a vst plugin synth?
A couple of followup questions
1. How do the real band sounds in biab compare to high quality synth sounds? Are they produced the same way?
Real Band tracks are actually the instruments they claim to be, recorded in a studio with microphones.... in other words, essentially sampled instruments but better. There's nothing fake about them.
Quote:
2. Are there some synths that are known for realistic guitar sounds? Drums?
realistic guitars? yeah, but there's a few things you need to know first. 1. you need to already have a good skill set on the keyboard. 2. there's a learning curve to making things work and sound good. 3. to sound realistic, you also have to know and understand the nuances a real player of that instrument plays and be able to emulate it on the keys in real time.
Drums are so much easier to work with as is bass when it comes to using synths. There are quite a few really nice drum synths and bass synths, and just about every other instrument as well.... certain ones, guitar, horns, sax, woodwinds to a large extent and others fall into that first category where you have to really pay attention to the nuances otherwise you end up with a really cheesy sounding rendition of that instrument.
Wanna know how real the real tracks sound compared to synths? Listen to the tracks of some of the folks here who use the RT's in their music.... including mine. I love the RT's and use them in everything. I don't always use midi and synths in everything but on occasion, yes, I will use them on drums or bass and keys.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/27/1602:38 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I agree with everything that Herb as said but I will add a couple of things.
1-in order to get good sounding MIDI you will also need good sound sources. You will not get good results using inexpensive GM sounds. You will need programs like Kontakt, Samplemodeling, and others. The thing these programs have in common is that they are expensive. Thus better sounding MIDI comes from better sound sources and the working knowledge of MIDI. Not to worry as the MIDI learning curve is not that steep. The translation of actual instrument nuances to MIDI may take a little longer. The biggest advantage of using MIDI is that you can play what you want where you want much easier that with RTs. IMHO a good MIDI sound source under the hands of an experienced MIDI user sounds as good as RTs.
2-It is not an either or situation when it comes to RTs or MIDI. Many of us use both in our music. In fact I use mostly RTs when doing clients music. Even a track or two of GM sounds can sound good when combined with a few RT tracks. However replacing those GM tracks with better MIDI sounds will make a huge difference.
3-My music uses virtually all MIDI and most all of it is on the user showcase forum.
I hope this helps and good luck.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
So bottom line, if I want realistic sounds from midi sources during playback, is there an inexpensive option that is any better than the GM? By inexpensive, I'm thinking $100 ballpark.
This DAW comes with TTS-1, a GM2 sound source. IMHO the TTS-1 is one of the best sounding GM sound sources. Plus Music Creator 7 comes with a few VSTis. You may find this DAW is the one you would like to use.
PS - the TTS-1 works fine with BiaB.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I use Cakewalk and TTS so TTS is my default synth for BB/RB. TTS is one of the better low priced synths... Depending on what you want your synths to do, the really nice ones start at several hundred and go up. Kontakt from Native Instruments is a good commercial grade/quality synth. I believe it's around $400 or so...give or take.
I try NOT to use midi tracks unless there's no other way and then I use samples which sound better.
BTW..... if you buy MC7 from Cakewalk for $20 it also has the Cakewalk Sound Center synth which is a sample based synth and it comes with some nice sounds.... plus, they sell add on sound packs for $20 each.... It's a great deal
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
If you go with Music Creator 7, be sure to install the 32-bit version if you want to use TTS-1 in BIAB. It's installed as a DXi synth (versus VSTi), so you can't use jBridge to access the 64-bit version (because jBridge only works with VST effects and VSTi synths, not DX effects or DXi synths.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
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