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Can anybody recommend a good MIDI Compressor plugin, something that can intelligently handle MIDI Velocity (with threshold, ratio and gain)?
I occasionally have a requirement for one that I would like to use with Sonar. Cakewalk have one called velocity, but it's fairly rudimentary, and I find it somewhat unintuitive in terms of knowing what it's actually doing.
There must be something out there that works for MIDI?
Ideas?
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I wonder if there is a CAL script for this, given that you are using SONAR. Perhaps post there, too?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Midi is data. While it is possible to compress data, it's not the same as compressing audio. Data compression is done all the time but not in relation to midi. AFAIK. I would venture to say that you're not going to compress the Midi.... if you're wanting to play with the velocity of the midi notes, there might be a way to do that that's easier.... I found this : http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Keyboards/acapella-18/363476-Compression, however, I believe you will find, is reserved to the audio portion of music. You might find tools to assist with velocity levels but that's not the same as true compression. I used to work a lot in midi and yes, it was a real pain to tweek the velocity of the notes.... so I can feel your pain. I would think it would be easier to use a velocity "touch" sensitive keyboard and let it read the velocity of the played notes...assuming that's how you enter the notes. One of my keyboards is velocity sensitive and that's a really cool way to enter the notes and include the touch sensitivity in the data from the start.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I would think it would be easier to use a velocity "touch" sensitive keyboard and let it read the velocity of the played notes... Thanks Herb That's actually how this whole mess started. An 'over ambitious' player using a velocity sensitive keyboard. The dynamics of the performance are wide ranging, too wide ranging to get a good balanced mix over the entire performance.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Like Herb said there is no such a thing as a MIDI compressor. What exactly are you trying to do?
If you are trying to raise or lower all or some of the notes the velocity tab on the track page will help. You can raise or lower velocities by an absolute amount or by a percentage. You can also use find/replace to select only the notes that you want to change and then change them.
Another option is to right click on the MIDI clip, select MIDI effects then velocity. There you will find a number of tools to help set velocity levels including one that you can set an absolute level then randomize it by a given amount.
Your last option would be to bounce the track to audio then you can use compression, limiting and any other audio effect.
Good luck.
[edit] typo
Last edited by MarioD; 06/21/16 03:17 AM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks Mario
I thought it would be simple to have an algorithm that works similar to the way an Audio Compressor works. The algorithm has thresholds and applies intelligent dynamic adjustment to values based on the note velocity information.
I don't want to adjust them by a 'fixed' percentage, but by dynamically controlling their velocity based on their range/distance 'outside' from an upper (or lower) threshold.
It's not impossible (at least for me) to draw a parallel between MIDI "Note Velocity" information and "Audio Loudness". Surely if one can apply a compressor to control dynamics to Audio, a similar concept could be used to control the dynamics of MIDI velocity data - of course using a tool designed for MIDI Data, not Audio.
Thanks for your input and ideas. Yes, I could go to Audio and then compress that, but I like the idea of maintaining the flexibility that MIDI still gives me in this case.
Trev
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Have you ever worked with CAL scripts? This may already exist. I've seen scripts for far stranger things.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Thanks Mario
I thought it would be simple to have an algorithm that works similar to the way an Audio Compressor works. The algorithm has thresholds and applies intelligent dynamic adjustment to values based on the note velocity information.
I don't want to adjust them by a 'fixed' percentage, but by dynamically controlling their velocity based on their range/distance 'outside' from an upper (or lower) threshold.
..... but I like the idea of maintaining the flexibility that MIDI still gives me in this case.
Trev
You can do that in find/replace. Find the ranges that you want to change, lets say 6-120 velocity. Input these ranges on the first page then on the second page select the ranges that you want, say 25-85. Find/change will then replace all of the velocities accordingly. That is a 120 will be 85, a 6 will be 25 with the other place in between according to how far out of the limits they are. Those velocities outside in the limits will not change, note there are two in the after pictures, so you have to carefully pick your initial limits. good luck. Ps - I will check on a cal later today time permitting. [img] https://www.dropbox.com/s/agpjnx2x4wkw3d5/Initial.JPG?dl=0[/img] [img] https://www.dropbox.com/s/fktm4z0qh8dtaji/Page%201.JPG?dl=0[/img] [img] https://www.dropbox.com/s/iydzznv57g24agh/Page%202.JPG?dl=0[/img] [img] https://www.dropbox.com/s/8d7q8smu9krpvdu/after.JPG?dl=0[/img]
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I have a Sonar "compressor" .cal from Garry Simmons (Apr 93) that does essentially what you want - BETWEEN the strings of the "%%%%%%%%%"
C&P into a text editor and save as name.CAL
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
; This CAL script works like a compressor/gate.
;
; Garry Simmons, April 1993
; simmons@ittc.wec.com
;
; This script performs the following three functions:
;
; 1) Notes with velocities BELOW the gate threshold are DELETED.
;
; 2) Notes with velocities BELOW the low threshold are INCREASED
; a percentage of their distance from the low threshold.
;
; 3) Notes with velocities ABOVE the high threshold are DECREASED
; a percentage of their distance from the high threshold.
;
; Application Notes:
;
; A compression perctange of 0% does nothing. A compression percentage
; of 100% sets the Note Velocity to the threshold.
;
; The gate is disabled by setting the gate threshold to zero.
;
; The velocity increase is disabled by setting the low threshold to zero.
;
; The velocity decrease is disabled by setting the high threshold to 127.
;
; The unaffected "deadband" between the high and low thresholds is
; eliminated by setting both the high and low thresholds to the same value.
; This causes all non-gated note events to be either increased or decreased
; toward the threshold value.
;
; prolog
(do
(int GT 0) ;Gate Threshold
(int LT 60) ;Low Threshold
(int HT 100) ;High Threshold
(int PCT 50) ;Compression Percentage
(int DV 0) ;Delta Velocity
(int Add) ;Amount to Add
(int Sub) ;Amount to Subtract
(getInt GT "Gate Velocity:" 0 127)
(getInt LT "Low Threshold:" 0 127)
(getInt HT "High Threshold:" 0 127)
(getInt PCT "Compression(%):" 0 100)
)
; body
(if (== Event.Kind NOTE)
(do
(if (< Note.Vel GT)
(delete)
(if (< Note.Vel LT)
(do
(= DV (- LT Note.Vel))
(= Add (* DV PCT))
(= Add (/ Add 100))
(= Note.Vel (+ Note.Vel Add))
)
(if (> Note.Vel HT)
(do
(= DV (- Note.Vel HT))
(= Sub (* DV PCT))
(= Sub (/ Sub 100))
(= Note.Vel (- Note.Vel Sub))
)
NIL
)
)
)
)
NIL
)
; epilog ;
NIL
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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If an overly aggressive player banged on the keys of a velocity sensitive keyboard, you should be able to go into the piano roll view (PRV) (in Sonar) and select groups of notes in the midi track and lower them all by a set amount.
I also think you can draw in a line with your mouse to set the velocity. I'm not sure how to tell you how this is done because I don't work in PRV at all. I know that it can be done because I did it one time many years back. This might be the better option for you to customize the velocity quickly. I had another Cakewalk user guide me on this.... although it's not some dark hidden secret. It's in the help manual. (F1 in Sonar)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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PGs products have some of the best midi manipulation and Marios recommendation is a place to start, however I do know of one plugin that allows you to apply a self drawn velocity curve that you can put befor your sound module VSTi. It's by a guy who goes by platinumears on the KVR forums. I've used it for exactly what you refer to.
Go to platinumears.com and grab the velocity curve plugin. You can draw in a compression like input output curve with it. I had to do this because I didn't like the limited velocity curves in my Casio XW P1 when outputting to some piano VSTi.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 06/26/16 05:14 AM.
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