You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#153631 - 03/15/12 05:32 AM 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 301
Loc: london
it's really frustrating....this program could kick serious ass but it just has a few things that render it of no use to me. It's been YEARS that I have been whining about how BB throws notes in the harmony that CHANGE the harmony from what the user specifies. So after I saw the 'simpler arrangement' feature, I bought BB 2012. Guess what? I chose a 'simpler' realtrack, hard rock arp or something, wrote Am and F, and BB played back a ninth on the Am. Grrr. So I had to regenerate the track, and by chance it played back a freaking Am with ONLY the notes of Am. But guess what, soon or later I'd write a chord that I have to 'fix' by regenerating the whole progression, and it will mess up another chord previously writte.

Christ, is it so hard for Pg Music to understand? Not everyone is a jazz player and not everyone cares about playing fancy extended chords where are not wanted.

And STILL no option to play a minor add 2 (different from Am 9 and not the same thing at all ) Come on guys, it's been 25 years since the release of this program. And no 'm add 9' chord.

Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it

After 15 minutes of messing around and wasting time trying to come up with creative ways to make BB work for me, I just turned off the darn computer thing and went back to my Tyros 2.

It's really a shame, since the release of Realtracks I always wanted to ditch my hardware and work with BB to write my music on, but it's just a waste of time. Good program, but it doesn't work for me, I am very precise about my harmonic progressions. Anyways, I wrote all this a zillion times before, so what's the use....

I don't want to hear random stuff. I don't want freaking notes that make no sense in my music. I want the darn thing to play back the chords I write without throwing in anything else. The day that I'll be able to do that on BB, I'll probably be old.


Edited by avatars_the_titletrack (03/15/12 05:47 AM)

Top
#153632 - 03/15/12 06:52 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 7703
Loc: Australia
Did you try setting the "Song Settings" to the "Force simpler arrangement" option to see if that made a difference?

_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#153633 - 03/15/12 07:30 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Noel96]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 676
Loc: Scotland
I can understand your frustration. The problem is that the 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' option doesn't seem to override the embellishment at all in my experience (although I'm only using v2011.5)

To do that you have to edit the current style and under the Style menu 'set embellishment for all instruments' to 0.

This should work. If it doesn't then it's usually because ninths and other extensions are part of the notation in the pattern. In this instance you could change the velocity settings to '0' under the Pattern menu targeting a specific midi note, e.g. notes 50, 62 and 74, which would have the effect of zapping any ninths once and for all.

What's needed is a more effective way of doing all this without having to go 'under the bonnet' so to speak. im coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum where even for jazz its not always a good feature to throw in extensions. Especially as in some cases the notes don't really belong and change the harmony colour completely.

Regards

Alan

Top
#153634 - 03/15/12 11:36 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
This is the deal Avatars. PG gives you all the tools to write all your own styles. You've never mentioned that you wrote custom styles and still have this problem so have you even tried that?. Learn how to write a style and I believe your problem is solved. That's why that ability is there, you can create whatever you want or at least very close to it. Just like on your Tyros btw, you can write custom styles for it too. If you can't or won't do that contact Norton Music, he's got several thousand custom styles. You can email him with your exact specifications and ask him if what you want is possible. I expect it is.

Bob
_________________________
Win 7 64 bit, AMD Phenom 6 core, 1TB HD, 4 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank

Top
#153635 - 03/15/12 12:39 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pwarren Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
If I'm not mistaken, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature only applies to ReatTracks. If chosen, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature will choose an arrangement from a RT that is indeed 'simpler'. However, not all RTs have simpler arrangements. You need to check the individual RTs to see if they do. If you are using RTs that don't have this feature it won't work.

If I know PGMusic at all they will be adding simpler RTs where ever possible in new releases and, via patches, to older RTs. Make sure you have the most recent RT patch installed.

As mentioned above, for midi it's the embellish feature you need to disable in order to prevent extensions to chords. That and modify or create styles that exclude the unwanted notes.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

Top
#153636 - 03/15/12 01:42 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pwarren]
carkins Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 349
I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.

Top
#153637 - 03/15/12 01:44 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: carkins]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.




This is the way I do . . . I call it the old fashion way.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

Top
#153638 - 03/15/12 11:10 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pinglis Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 54
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BiaB doesn't understand?
_________________________
www.paulinglis.org

Top
#153639 - 03/15/12 11:28 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 11998
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George, N...
I thought 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' was for MIDI, and if you want the new 'simpler' RealTracks, you have to select them individually.
_________________________
"Brazilian Wish" CD 2-minute preview. Studio recordings of songs composed in Band in a Box.

Top
#153640 - 03/15/12 11:31 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 11998
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George, N...
Quote:

Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BIAB doesn't understand?



Good point. Examples, please.

We often (not always) find that a chord someone cannot enter is solvable by knowing the BIAB convention for entering it, or something that will pass for it.
_________________________
"Brazilian Wish" CD 2-minute preview. Studio recordings of songs composed in Band in a Box.

Top
#153641 - 03/16/12 10:10 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 676
Loc: Scotland
I think the issue is one of unwanted embellishments to simple chords, not some mysterious chord that biab doesn't recognize.

'Force simpler arrangement' or 'allow/disallow embellishments to chords' has a history of failing to override embellishments already assigned in the pattern editor to the style in use. That's been my experience anyway. You have to set embellishments to 0 for all instruments in the stylemaker to effectively get rid of them.

Regards

Alan

Top
#153642 - 03/16/12 10:35 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 11998
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George, N...
Yes - we have two separate questions going here. The chord spelling is a different topic from the simplifying.
_________________________
"Brazilian Wish" CD 2-minute preview. Studio recordings of songs composed in Band in a Box.

Top
#153643 - 03/16/12 10:48 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 7053
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
The fly-by help for "force to Simpler arrangement" states that it is for both MIDI styles and for RealTracks that have the simpler versions available (look at the RealTracks picker - one of the columns tells you if a particular RT has that feature).
_________________________
John

Top
#153644 - 03/16/12 10:53 AM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: jford]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1614
I can't tell any difference when selecting this option for a Midi track.

Top
#153645 - 03/16/12 01:01 PM Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Rachael]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 11998
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George, N...
Thanks, John and Rachael. Clearly, it's time for me to do more experiments.
_________________________
"Brazilian Wish" CD 2-minute preview. Studio recordings of songs composed in Band in a Box.

Top


Shout Box (Live chat with other users)

PG Music News
Testimonial - Band-in-a-Box Basics by David Snyder

We've just uploaded the latest video testimonial from user David Snyder!

https://youtu.be/M-CS4f35uA0

Click here to watch all the videos we've received so far!

You can still send us your video - Click here for more information

The Video Help Button in Band-in-a-Box 2015

One of the GUI updates that was added with Band-in-a-Box 2015 was the Video Tutorial button you'll find in more than 40 of the various dialog windows!

For example, the MIDI Tracks | MIDI SuperTracks Window has one (you'll find it on the bottom right of the Window), which opens up this video on our website! And, any related videos will also list on the video page!

Video - Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin Mode

With Band-in-a-Box's Drag-and-Drop Plugin Mode you can drag-and-drop MIDI and audio (WAV) tracks from Band-in-a-Box to your favorite sequencer. Work in your favorite sequencer, type a progression in Band-in-a-Box, and then simply drag the track from Band-in-a-Box to your sequencer’s track at the desired track and bar location!

We've created a short support video... watch it here.

#TBT - Band-in-a-Box Japanese 7.0 for Mac

Look at what we came across in the Marketing Office - Band-in-a-Box 7.0 Japanese for Mac!
This version was available in 1997!

Click here to see the retail box.

Did you know we have a very active Forum on our website?

You can post your original songs, share videos, post some Band-in-a-Box tips, ask questions about the program, make program suggestions in the Wishlist section, and even share some jokes and other stories in the Off-Topic forum.

Our Forum is packed with some AMAZING people - check it out!
www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Video - The Chord Builder in Band-in-a-Box

The Chord Builder feature allows you to hear and build chords up by clicking on the root, extension and alternate slash root if applicable - and it's a great way to test out chords to input into your song!

Watch the video: youtu.be/uRWIz6dSh88

Wondering what chords are recognized by Band-in-a-Box? Find out here: www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_chordlist.htm

We'd Still LOVE to See Your Video Testimonial!

In June we announced that we'd started a new Video Testimonials Page and that we are seeking Video Testimonials from Band-in-a-Box users like YOU.
If you’re video is selected, we'll send you a Band-in-a-Box EverythingPAK!

Want some inspiration? Visit our Video Testimonials page at www.pgmusic.com/video.testimonials.htm to see the videos already submitted.

For information on how to create your video testimonial, click here.

Forum Stats
23510 Members
38 Forums
35264 Topics
281546 Posts

Max Online: 1591 @ 03/15/15 04:12 PM
Newest Members
yhevi, Jazzsingr, cinesatires, liamcolemax, beegee

23510 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Guitarhacker 102
c_fogle 95
VideoTrack 91
MarioD 89
JimFogle 87
jazzmandan 86
solidrock 81
gruverider 81
gibson 80
90 dB 78
Today's Birthdays
Kenn