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#153631 - 03/15/12 05:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
it's really frustrating....this program could kick serious ass but it just has a few things that render it of no use to me. It's been YEARS that I have been whining about how BB throws notes in the harmony that CHANGE the harmony from what the user specifies. So after I saw the 'simpler arrangement' feature, I bought BB 2012. Guess what? I chose a 'simpler' realtrack, hard rock arp or something, wrote Am and F, and BB played back a ninth on the Am. Grrr. So I had to regenerate the track, and by chance it played back a freaking Am with ONLY the notes of Am. But guess what, soon or later I'd write a chord that I have to 'fix' by regenerating the whole progression, and it will mess up another chord previously writte.

Christ, is it so hard for Pg Music to understand? Not everyone is a jazz player and not everyone cares about playing fancy extended chords where are not wanted.

And STILL no option to play a minor add 2 (different from Am 9 and not the same thing at all ) Come on guys, it's been 25 years since the release of this program. And no 'm add 9' chord.

Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it

After 15 minutes of messing around and wasting time trying to come up with creative ways to make BB work for me, I just turned off the darn computer thing and went back to my Tyros 2.

It's really a shame, since the release of Realtracks I always wanted to ditch my hardware and work with BB to write my music on, but it's just a waste of time. Good program, but it doesn't work for me, I am very precise about my harmonic progressions. Anyways, I wrote all this a zillion times before, so what's the use....

I don't want to hear random stuff. I don't want freaking notes that make no sense in my music. I want the darn thing to play back the chords I write without throwing in anything else. The day that I'll be able to do that on BB, I'll probably be old.


Edited by avatars_the_titletrack (03/15/12 05:47 AM)

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#153632 - 03/15/12 06:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 10948
Loc: Australia
Did you try setting the "Song Settings" to the "Force simpler arrangement" option to see if that made a difference?

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#153633 - 03/15/12 07:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Noel96]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I can understand your frustration. The problem is that the 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' option doesn't seem to override the embellishment at all in my experience (although I'm only using v2011.5)

To do that you have to edit the current style and under the Style menu 'set embellishment for all instruments' to 0.

This should work. If it doesn't then it's usually because ninths and other extensions are part of the notation in the pattern. In this instance you could change the velocity settings to '0' under the Pattern menu targeting a specific midi note, e.g. notes 50, 62 and 74, which would have the effect of zapping any ninths once and for all.

What's needed is a more effective way of doing all this without having to go 'under the bonnet' so to speak. im coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum where even for jazz its not always a good feature to throw in extensions. Especially as in some cases the notes don't really belong and change the harmony colour completely.

Regards

Alan

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#153634 - 03/15/12 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6092
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
This is the deal Avatars. PG gives you all the tools to write all your own styles. You've never mentioned that you wrote custom styles and still have this problem so have you even tried that?. Learn how to write a style and I believe your problem is solved. That's why that ability is there, you can create whatever you want or at least very close to it. Just like on your Tyros btw, you can write custom styles for it too. If you can't or won't do that contact Norton Music, he's got several thousand custom styles. You can email him with your exact specifications and ask him if what you want is possible. I expect it is.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#153635 - 03/15/12 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pwarren Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
If I'm not mistaken, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature only applies to ReatTracks. If chosen, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature will choose an arrangement from a RT that is indeed 'simpler'. However, not all RTs have simpler arrangements. You need to check the individual RTs to see if they do. If you are using RTs that don't have this feature it won't work.

If I know PGMusic at all they will be adding simpler RTs where ever possible in new releases and, via patches, to older RTs. Make sure you have the most recent RT patch installed.

As mentioned above, for midi it's the embellish feature you need to disable in order to prevent extensions to chords. That and modify or create styles that exclude the unwanted notes.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#153636 - 03/15/12 01:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pwarren]
carkins Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 349
I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.

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#153637 - 03/15/12 01:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: carkins]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.




This is the way I do . . . I call it the old fashion way.

Later,
_________________________
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www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#153638 - 03/15/12 11:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pinglis Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BiaB doesn't understand?
_________________________
www.paulinglis.org

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#153639 - 03/15/12 11:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15218
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I thought 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' was for MIDI, and if you want the new 'simpler' RealTracks, you have to select them individually.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153640 - 03/15/12 11:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15218
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Quote:

Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BIAB doesn't understand?



Good point. Examples, please.

We often (not always) find that a chord someone cannot enter is solvable by knowing the BIAB convention for entering it, or something that will pass for it.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153641 - 03/16/12 10:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I think the issue is one of unwanted embellishments to simple chords, not some mysterious chord that biab doesn't recognize.

'Force simpler arrangement' or 'allow/disallow embellishments to chords' has a history of failing to override embellishments already assigned in the pattern editor to the style in use. That's been my experience anyway. You have to set embellishments to 0 for all instruments in the stylemaker to effectively get rid of them.

Regards

Alan

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#153642 - 03/16/12 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15218
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes - we have two separate questions going here. The chord spelling is a different topic from the simplifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153643 - 03/16/12 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9093
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
The fly-by help for "force to Simpler arrangement" states that it is for both MIDI styles and for RealTracks that have the simpler versions available (look at the RealTracks picker - one of the columns tells you if a particular RT has that feature).
_________________________
John

PC: Win10Pro-64
Laptop: Win7Pro-64
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#153644 - 03/16/12 10:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: jford]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I can't tell any difference when selecting this option for a Midi track.

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#153645 - 03/16/12 01:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Rachael]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15218
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Thanks, John and Rachael. Clearly, it's time for me to do more experiments.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac - Special Upgrade Pricing Until May 31, 2017!

On April 20 we released Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac with over 80 new features, 202 New RealTracks, and more!

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Band-in-a-Box® Version 2017 for Windows Build 464 Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows customers can install the latest patch update (Build 464) here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#464

Added: The RealTracks Settings dialog now has a choice of low/medium/high for Elastique stretching quality, instead of just high quality on or off (high quality off meant medium).
Fixed: Chord sheet fonts were limited to a maximum size that would not quite fill the cells. This would cause superscript extensions to sit too high above the roots.
Fixed: Elastique stretching items were missing from the RealTracks Settings dialog.
Fixed: If pasting a single line of text into a layer using the layer context menu, nothing would be pasted.
Fixed: If pasting multiple lines of text into a layer, the last line would be skipped.
Fixed: Shift+Arrow keys were not working to highlight regions on the chord sheet.
Fixed: The "Select Hi-Q MIDI Patch Plugin" menu item should be available to the Melody, Soloist, and Thru tracks.
Fixed: The Help button in the MultiDrums dialog did not do anything
Fixed: The media player in the Hi-Q patch dialog did not have a volume control.
Fixed: The number pad keys 0, 1, 2 would trigger looping features are inappropriate times (eg. when in the song memo, or when selecting the chorus ending bar, etc.)
Fixed: The visual metronome would take over the StylePicker window when playing song demo.
Fixed: When running Band-in-a-Box with factory settings the floating mixer would appear in the top left corner of the screen the first time it was opened.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac - Toolbar Modes #TipTuesday

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac offers you more control over your toolbars!

With the redesigned GUI in Band-in-a-Box® 2017, there are now 3 modes for the toolbar! To switch between them, use the the Mode Selector buttons (located at the top left of the screen).

The three modes are:
1. Smaller, configurable toolbar with tabbed interface.
There's a [CUSTOM] tab in this mode that lets you select buttons you want to see in the order you want!

2. Taller toolbar with fixed on-screen Mixer, useful for people with hi-res screens.
All your buttons are there!

3. DAW Mode.
This makes a small screen, always on top, useful for drag and drop of files to your favorite DAW.

#TipTuesday Want a faster way to switch between your custom toolbar and the taller toolbar? Just select Cmd-T!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac - Special Audiophile Upgrade Option!

Are you currently using a Band-in-a-Box® 2016 Audiophile Edition hard drive? We have a special upgrade price just for you!

During our Mac special, which ends May 31st, registered users of a Band-in-a-Box® 2016 for Mac Audiophile Edition can purchase the 2017 Audiophile Upgrade for only $199! This limited-time offer is available at www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.packages.audiophile.htm or by calling us directly. www.pgmusic.com/contact.htm.

The Band-in-a-Box® Audiophile Edition ships pre-installed on a high-speed USB 3.0 hard drive. This package is similar to the EverythingPAK, however it includes the uncompressed AIFF files for the RealTracks & RealDrums - perfect if you're looking for the highest level of lossless audio!
Note: Due to the large size of these files, the Audiophile Edition is not available for download.

To review all the different Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac packages, visit www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.packages.htm

Ordering your Band-in-a-Box® 2017 Audiophile Edition for Mac, and you're interested in adding the 49-PAK (which includes 24 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 18 Instrumental Studies, 30 MIDI SuperTracks, and 59 Re-discovered RealStyles & MIDI SuperTracks)? If you purchase your 49-PAK at the same time as your Audiophile Upgrade purchase, we'll make sure you receive the AIFF files for the 24 additional RealTracks pre-installed to the Audiophile hard drive!


Special Pricing - Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series with Quinn Bachand Until May 31!

We're offering all three volumes of the Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series with Quinn Bachand! for the special price of $29 until May 31st! (reg: $49)

Anyone familiar with our RealTracks will recognize the name Quinn Bachand - his RealTracks collection includes the Celtic guitar, Bodhran, Irish Bouzouki, and banjo!

Watch the trailer...

Quinn has not only mastered Celtic guitar (he did so at a very young age), he is also an expert on jazz and gypsy guitar! Quinn is a great teacher, and knows all the theory and terminology to describe what he is teaching. These videos included in the Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series are highly recommended. There are 3 volumes, each one hour long ($19 per volume). Quinn cover techniques, chord theory, voicings and walks you through 17 "must-know" tunes. This is for the intermediate-advanced guitarist, and covers Celtic guitar styles (some folk and old-time covered as well).

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