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#360436 - 08/11/16 06:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] RealTracks Question
europa_man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 7
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
We are using BIAB 2015 in our studio.
We love the RealTracks feature in BIAB.

I am looking over all the new RealTrack series that are being released on the website.

I can't believe that the new RealTracks will only work with 2016 version.

What is this all about! We are not able to purchase new Real Tracks.

Software that is a year old cannot play the newly released RealTracks!

Something is wrong here.

As a long time user of BIAB - since the DOS days - I find this very upsetting.

Has anyone tested this?

This is unethical in my mind.



Edited by europa_man (08/11/16 06:22 AM)

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#360440 - 08/11/16 06:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Probably not unethical, just the reality of evolution of this and many other products.

Older version perhaps don't recognize some of the features of the newer realtracks, and don't know how to handle them, etc.

Newer versions are made to work with older and newer realtracks and therefore can handle both.

(You probably cannot open that latest MS Word .docx document with the version of Word that came with Windows 95. Same difference isn't it?)
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#360442 - 08/11/16 07:03 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: VideoTrack]
europa_man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 7
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Hugh difference. We are talking about one year.

BIAB 2015 to BIAB 2016 is not Windows 95 to Windows 10!

Windows 95 was released August 24, 1995!

RealTracks are only audio files.


Edited by europa_man (08/11/16 07:03 AM)

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#360443 - 08/11/16 07:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2143
I use an old copy of Office and open new Word docx files using a free addon from Microsoft.

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#360451 - 08/11/16 07:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: europa_man
Hugh difference. We are talking about one year.

BIAB 2015 to BIAB 2016 is not Windows 95 to Windows 10!

Windows 95 was released August 24, 1995!

RealTracks are only audio files.

Maybe I should have used a later version than Windows 95 in my example.

I fully understand how new features might not be compatible with an earlier model, even if the older model is not that old. Simply put, if the functionality in the older version didn't anticipate requirements of newer features, then how could it accommodate them? Perhaps the program needs to know about every option beforehand, rather than loading them on the fly like a MIDI file. I'm not the developer so I cannot answer definitively.

Back on topic: My choice was to upgrade BiaB and take advantage of the newer RealTracks. Probably not what you want to hear, but at least everybody has that choice.

BTW: You're not alone. I've purchased this product only to find an update came out shortly after and I missed out on the new features.

We're of course only end-users like you. You could talk to PGM Support for more knowledge of the upgrade mechanisms, and what will work in your 2015 version.

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#360469 - 08/11/16 09:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5622
Well, I feel your pain but the same thing happened in the audio world. The software operating systems went from 32 bits to 64 bits with the new release of a 64bit OS.

Suddenly, all of the software drivers that were 32 bit would not work on the 64 bit systems and lots of things would no longer work. You either had to buy the new product or get the fix if the programmers were feeling generous. If you bought within 12 months, they normally upgraded you for free, but beyond that.... nope.

Someone came out with J-bridge.... but the fact is manufacturers and programmers are upgrading and improving things all the time and while many times, the new stuff will work on the older platforms, some times it doesn't.

Just out of curiosity, have you asked support about this?
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#360484 - 08/11/16 11:03 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4371
Loc: South Carolina
I seem to recall the RealTracks will work with older programs but will not integrate correctly with the Stylepicker and show up in searches.
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#360488 - 08/11/16 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17217
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Though I'm not certain because I only have the latest build of 2016, I think Charlie is correct. I thought newer 2016 RealTracks are selectable individually in 2015; it's just a case of having these newest XtraStyles show up, and for that new feature you need 2016.

In general, it's great when software is backward compatible, but there is never a guarantee it will be forward compatible.
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#360508 - 08/11/16 12:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: Matt Finley]
europa_man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 7
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Thank you guys for the quick responses.

It's expensive to update.

You would think the core program of BiaB would last longer than a year and that you could buy additional packages along the way to enhance it.

One year is very short lifespan even for a software program.

I sure love my Cakewalk Pro Audio ver 9 for midi. Old but solid as a rock. I still use Sonar Producer 3 but Reaper is my DAW software.

Reasonable price - rock solid and free updates almost every month!
All BiaB RealTracks are saved as waves and imported into Reaper.

Works great.

BiaB now forces you to upgrade to use the new RealTracks.

Disappointed is the word I think is best to describe this problem and I'm a huge fan of BiaB since the 90's.

Thanks for the input.

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#360513 - 08/11/16 01:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
It might be that just something simple like the "What add-ons do I have" function won't reflect the newer styles, or the demo won't play, but they may still be selectable from the StylePicker.

I asked the PG Support team what happens if you purchase a 2016 style. Would it still be usable by the 2015 program, even though there may be some limitations?

I'll report back what I find.

Trevor


Edited by VideoTrack (08/11/16 01:11 PM)
Edit Reason: Asked PG support for input
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#360526 - 08/11/16 02:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17217
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
As far as I recall, this is first time this has happened, and it's because of the new XtraStyles feature just added.
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#360529 - 08/11/16 02:32 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
Me Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 6
The Real Tracks are made by paying studio musicians and studio time. PG Music needs to be reimbursed for their time, no?

Sorry if Mis-interpreted your question? We have to pay for the latest and greatest.

Trax

You are correct. I thought you wanted the latest RTs for a freebie, I apologize. The 2016 RTs *should* work in Biab 2015.

Trax


Edited by Me (08/11/16 02:35 PM)

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#360534 - 08/11/16 03:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
GHinCH Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
You could use the 2016 RealTracks with 2015 but there are inconveniences. Dr. Peter Gannon says something here: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323287&Searchpage=1&Main=47410&Words=realtracks&Search=true#Post323287

Sometimes evolution has new features where the code of the older version cannot handle newer developments. VideoTrack mentioned different Windows versions. I chime in but I'm using a different harmony. In Windows XP you could search for certain properties like title or certain keywords of files. You still can do this in Windows 10, but since Windows Vista you cannot see the respective entries of e.g. pdf-files anymore. Microsoft was wiping out lots of hours of work put in by users worldwide.

While evolution in software almost always make older files useless after one, two or maybe three generations; PGMusic so far establishes a backward compatibility to the oldest files.

If you need an example of bad customer relationship, Microsoft again jumps in as a volunteer. There are features in Access that we used in Access 2000 and could convey to 2003 but no version of Access later than that is able to run the procedures and there is no (!) conversion to newer functions. And to continue, it is no more possible to install Access 2000 on Windows version after XP -- well you can, but you cannot install any other software after Office 2000 is installed. It destroys the UAC.

Updates can be expensive. But often the most expensive update is the one we skip.
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#360561 - 08/11/16 06:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: VideoTrack]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
OK, here's the official response from PGM Support:

The 2016 styles are technically usable in the 2015 software. However generally the 2016 styles are going to need to reference a 2016 Realtracks which the customer would not have unless they had purchased them separately.

Even it is still a bit of a grey area as the new Xtra Styles Pak states on the website it requires the latest build for 2016.

I would suggest the customer upgrade the full software if he wishes to use the new styles. If he were to upgrade to an UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK or Audiophile Edition they would then have all the new styles and RealTracks would be included in the 2016 upgrade.
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#360643 - 08/12/16 10:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: VideoTrack]
europa_man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 7
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada

Thank you going the extra mile on this.
I'm still a little confused.
All I want to do is go online and purchase some of the latest RealTrack packages that caught my interest.

I will update to 2016 on my own time.
I feel like we are being forced to update to keep up with the new stuff.
I can't state it any stronger but I'm using ver. from 2015!

I'm not using Band in a Box 2001!

I'm tempted to order some RealTracks for the 2016 ver just to try & see if they will work.

Thanks again.

Great forum support! Appreciate it.



Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
OK, here's the official response from PGM Support:

The 2016 styles are technically usable in the 2015 software. However generally the 2016 styles are going to need to reference a 2016 Realtracks which the customer would not have unless they had purchased them separately.

Even it is still a bit of a grey area as the new Xtra Styles Pak states on the website it requires the latest build for 2016.

I would suggest the customer upgrade the full software if he wishes to use the new styles. If he were to upgrade to an UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK or Audiophile Edition they would then have all the new styles and RealTracks would be included in the 2016 upgrade.

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#360655 - 08/12/16 01:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
GHinCH Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
The RealTracks will work with 2015.

What everybody else is referring to is the styles. There is a change in the picture and your 2015 StylePicker has difficulties to address the 2016 styles. But the RealTracks are not affected.

It is just bad luck on your side that some major changes are done while you're entering the (moving) train.

You said that updating is expensive. Since I don't know you and your circumstances I cannot argue. I only can state some facts. The current price for the update is USD 129. The last years the update price during the discount season was USD 99 (if you had the current version of that time).

You don't have to buy the complete version, the update, called the PlusPAK, is sufficient. This PlusPAK also includes all the regular styles and RealTracks that are new with BIAB 2016.

Having said this, there is a 49-PAK with some more RealTracks which is available in August 2016, because of the new Xtra styles that reference some of these RealTracks. These may or may not be included in the 2017 version.
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#360717 - 08/13/16 04:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
rayc Offline
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 308
Loc: Stanwell Park NSW Australia
I have BIAB 2011 Pro and bought a couple of style packs a couple of months ago - they aren't the newest sets but they work well with my 2011.
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#360718 - 08/13/16 04:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
JBlue7 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 152
Loc: Glos. England
Hi All,
The new extra stylepak is brilliant well worth the money. Depending on circumstances of course, I don't feel the upgrades along with new real tracks once a year are expensive. PG have to pay their staff and developing costs and musicians to give us such a great program.
Usually we have had an upgrade mid year I am guessing PG are running out of ideas of what to add to BinB so I assume in the future we will be offered more and more of these new extra styles, so worth upgrading to 2016 I feel.
Regards Jeff (UK)

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#360809 - 08/14/16 05:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: GHinCH]
europa_man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 7
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Thanks for the reply.
This makes sense to me.
How could the "RealTracks" not work?
I never mentioned the word "styles".
I do know the difference.

Please you check out:
63 New Rock-Pop RealTracks in Sets 228-235... (Rock-Pop RealPAK Vol 12)
Requires Band-in-a-Box 2016 or higher in the description.
And it's in red.

I would like to think that they would like to be able to sell these new RealTracks to customers who purchased their software one year earlier.

I hope your clarification is correct.



Originally Posted By: GHinCH
The RealTracks will work with 2015.

What everybody else is referring to is the styles. There is a change in the picture and your 2015 StylePicker has difficulties to address the 2016 styles. But the RealTracks are not affected.

It is just bad luck on your side that some major changes are done while you're entering the (moving) train.

You said that updating is expensive. Since I don't know you and your circumstances I cannot argue. I only can state some facts. The current price for the update is USD 129. The last years the update price during the discount season was USD 99 (if you had the current version of that time).

You don't have to buy the complete version, the update, called the PlusPAK, is sufficient. This PlusPAK also includes all the regular styles and RealTracks that are new with BIAB 2016.

Having said this, there is a 49-PAK with some more RealTracks which is available in August 2016, because of the new Xtra styles that reference some of these RealTracks. These may or may not be included in the 2017 version.

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#360829 - 08/14/16 07:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RealTracks Question [Re: europa_man]
GHinCH Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
Well, this is what I take from Peter Gannon in the thread that I linked previously ...

(... and from others who bought them with versions prior 2016 and posted it here in the forum somewhere ...)

... and there is always the money back guarantee.


Edited by GHinCH (08/14/16 07:13 AM)
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