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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2016
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OP
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.....please tell me the UI functionality improved since. A lot? I'm sorry but so far I am well disappointed in how unintuitive it is. Again: functionality, not look n feel (which is also ancient-looking, even for 2008, but I digress).....ie how the menus/buttons are arranged, how things are arranged within a window that pops up etc......clearly whoever designed this is more of a musician than a developer. Yikes. For example: - most buttons, including ones most people would rarely use, crammed to the right in the middle of the screen....um.....what? And do they really need a button to click to go to the PG site? - how to select/change the various voices (instruments)? I've changed every one at the top of the main window, but the (rhythm) instrument ie playing the chords remains the same when I retry. - how the flip to turn off the flipping solos? I tried one and now no matter what I try in the solo window, no dice. You'd think there'd be a simple (and more to the point, very conspicuous) check box to turn it on or off. And so on. I'm sure I can/will find at least some of this stuff out eventually, but again the point is it shouldn't be a serious hunt n peck; it should be obvious. So please......tell me these user-unfriendly things are WAY better in 2016. I've such high hopes for this, clearly it's a powerful tool.....but if I'm going to pull out my hair just trying to change even basic settings like this, it might not be worth the coin. My sanity is dicey enough as it is. 
Last edited by joe5; 08/11/16 02:00 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Journeyman
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Joe5 " it might not be worth the coin."
Well with an attitude like that. Save the coin.
Win 10, 64 bit, love my Lenovo T420, BIAB 2019 (613), RB 2019 (2)
Short term memory is getting shorter.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2001
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Joe:
"I understand the situation, I just fail to see the problem" <grin>.
Since PGMusic allows a 30 day money-back guarantee, I'd say buy it and try it.
If it doesn't suit your needs, you're not out any coin at all.
Good luck!
LLOYD S
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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On the other hand, with all your questions in this forum you already could have investigated that PGMusic offers an unconditional 30 day money back guarantee.
Take a 30 day vacation when you receive the package and never forget: The tools are for musicians. That is the realm where vocabulary and pracitces are derived from.
Both programs, Band-in-a-Box and RealBand, require you to follow a learning curve. Depending on your tolerance level as well as your present understood musician's knowledge it might be steep or shallow.
Last edited by GHinCH; 08/11/16 02:31 PM. Reason: Lloyd was a little faster posting...
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The user interface has definitely improved since version 2008; there was a major revision to the main screen a few years ago. But can we say to you "a lot"? That's too subjective to answer. If you're looking for examples of things to find wrong, you will find them. If you approach it with a positive attitude, it should be different. You are correct, the program is written by a very capable musician, for which I am grateful.
I concur with the suggestion to try it, knowing you have the PG Music 30-day money back guarantee.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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.....please tell me the UI functionality improved since. A lot? I'm sorry but so far I am well disappointed in how unintuitive it is. Again: functionality, not look n feel (which is also ancient-looking, even for 2008, but I digress).....ie how the menus/buttons are arranged, how things are arranged within a window that pops up etc......clearly whoever designed this is more of a musician than a developer. Yikes. For example: - most buttons, including ones most people would rarely use, crammed to the right in the middle of the screen....um.....what? And do they really need a button to click to go to the PG site? - how to select/change the various voices (instruments)? I've changed every one at the top of the main window, but the (rhythm) instrument ie playing the chords remains the same when I retry. - how the flip to turn off the flipping solos? I tried one and now no matter what I try in the solo window, no dice. You'd think there'd be a simple (and more to the point, very conspicuous) check box to turn it on or off. And so on. I'm sure I can/will find at least some of this stuff out eventually, but again the point is it shouldn't be a serious hunt n peck; it should be obvious. So please......tell me these user-unfriendly things are WAY better in 2016. I've such high hopes for this, clearly it's a powerful tool.....but if I'm going to pull out my hair just trying to change even basic settings like this, it might not be worth the coin. My sanity is dicey enough as it is. You may have noticed some of the long-time PG fans are prone to taking offense when someone calls their baby ugly! But here is the straight scoop...dunno about 2008 but I've been using the program since 2012 and it has been improved some since then. They removed lots of those buttons and streamlined the main GUI. It still has a ways to go to be a modern GUI and honestly some of the popup windows, dialogs and documentation are so complicated, dated and hard to figure out that I mostly give up and come here and ask these nice people when I am trying to figure out how to do something! There is a small but vocal sub-group here who loudly advocate for significant GUI redesign but honestly we have not received any indication that such efforts are underway. BUT, as a user now for over 4 years I will say that in spite of my grumbling about the GUI I love this software and more specifically, I LOVE these RealTracks! Again I dunno how far along they were in 2008 but in 2016 what you can do with RealTracks is astounding! Beyond compare! Just really mind-blowing! So I will agree with what others have said and suggest you give it a try! They usually have really great special pricing starting around December 1. Be sure and buy the package with the complete set of RealTracks. And feel free to join in with the please-fix-this-GUI sub-group! 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2016
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OP
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You may have noticed some of the long-time PG fans are prone to taking offense when someone calls their baby ugly! It's OK, I'm (almost) used to hypersensitive hissy fits these days, it's all the rage after all. But OMG....you offered further criticism! Do you have a death wish?  Appreciate the info (and level-headed replies from those who were capable). And glad to join the "pls fix the UI" crowd. Re. the money back thing, for one I don't exactly have 24/7 to spend with this (yknow the job etc), so even 30 days, esp based on what I've seen, may not be sufficient to get a definitive feel for if it's worth it. Hard to say, given what I'm looking at is numerous versions behind. Further, I have to wonder if they offer that on a download-? Not that I would, but how do they know I wouldn't just keep it anyway? Who knows......I'll keep an eye out for the possible end of year buys, thx for the tip...if it's cheap enough, maybe I can just take the plunge and pray.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Just an opinion, but I wouldn't expect someone who knows BIAB 2008 to find it all that difficult to get a pretty good feel for 2016 quickly. Sure, you'll find lots of new features and especially tons of new RealTracks, but you should feel at home quickly. If you hit a few snags, just ask us.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Absolutely you should keep bringing this up! Good ideas sometimes need to be seen several times!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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... Further, I have to wonder if they offer that on a download-? Not that I would, but how do they know I wouldn't just keep it anyway? ... For some time now they have an activation procedure. Well you could maybe hack this but... The larger packages come on a USB hard drive, they're too large for a download. For the price you will have to decide your limit. I don't know about the discount for the first time purchase. (I wasn't interested the last couple of years.) It used to be attractive in 2009 when I bought it. But there have been some changes made... Depending on what you want to do with Band-in-a-Box it might be worth it. Practice with what you have, don't bother with what could be better, use what the program offers. It is a lot. If you can get some decent results with 2008, given that it is Midi only, then 2017 should be easy enough to use and time should be sufficient to evaluate the (new) possibilities within the thirty days money back guarantee period. Also, taken from the statements here on that forum, there probably will be no surprises regarding the compatibility of your work until then. What I would do, if I was in your position right now. (Back then there was an evaluation package available without the ability to save your work. What I wanted to keep I had to play through the stereo and record it. Nevertheless after I bought it I did have to enter the songs again.) I would prepare certain songs that I would like to do. I would not care about the current sound possibilities. I was a software tester for some time, not beta test -- the real thing, testing even before the coding started. I would prepare some scenarios that I would want to try. Not the very complicated stuff like a Zwiefacher, a South-German folk dance with time signature changes between a 2/4 and a 3/4 every measure, or the Unsquare Dance by Dave Brubeck. (BIAB can handle both, provided you're ready to devote the time.) I would choose songs that benefit from the main capabilities of BiaB to create different backing tracks very easy, for instance. Good luck with the decision process.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think I started with 2008 or 2009 and yeah, there's been some updating since then.
I like what I saw on that video in Videotrack's post.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB 2024, latest build.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, indeed. But: This defers from the original poster's question.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, indeed. But: This defers from the original poster's question. Well I don't think it totally defers, as the O/P was commenting on the user interface, and wrote (in part): Again: functionality, not look n feel (which is also ancient-looking, even for 2008, but I digress).....ie how the menus/buttons are arranged,...clearly whoever designed this is more of a musician than a developer. Yikes.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think it helps the OP to know there are BIAB fans here who are actively promoting product improvements! And Videotrack's demo certainly shows some nice improvement opps!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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- most buttons, including ones most people would rarely use, crammed to the right in the middle of the screen....um.....what? And do they really need a button to click to go to the PG site?
- how to select/change the various voices (instruments)? I've changed every one at the top of the main window, but the (rhythm) instrument ie playing the chords remains the same when I retry.
- how the flip to turn off the flipping solos? I tried one and now no matter what I try in the solo window, no dice. You'd think there'd be a simple (and more to the point, very conspicuous) check box to turn it on or off.
And so on.
---------
))) tell me these user-unfriendly things are WAY better in 2016. I've such high hopes for this, clearly it's a powerful tool.....
Yes, every one of those items that you mentioned have been much improved since 2008.
Specifically...
-completely new toolbar, organized into functional groups, buttons are no longer "crammed to the right"
- main menu reorganized, into functional groups
- on screen mixer allowing control of voice selection and mix.
- chordsheet window redone, lots of new features
But the obvious difference between 2008 and 2016 is RealTracks, which were only in early days in 2008. Have a listen to the songs in the User Showcase forum, from BiaB you will mainly hear RealTracks.
Regarding "turning off the flipping solos", just don't choose styles that have soloists in the first place. Or you have chosen such a style, click on the track with the soloist and disable that track from the on-screen mixer.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joe5 my take on this is sure I can pick the program apart with the best of them on all the UI things. Totally agree with the complaints. But...
Biab is completely unique, nothing else does what Biab can do.
What it actually DOES is the reason I jumped in 10-12 years ago which means at the time I used 2008 extensively. Yes, I saw immediately the look was archaic, the menus were a mess, the Help files need help, getting around the deeper/hidden parts of the program was a pain and some still are but they're making progress.
If you're asking are all those things now fixed the answer basically is no. There have been incremental improvements but long story short the program really needs a complete rewrite to bring it up to the present including making it 64 bit. But in the end, it's what it actually does right now that matters to me not all that other stuff which means I'm not bailing on the program until it's all cleaned up. I'm a smart guy, I managed to figure all that stuff out with some help from my friends here. You can too, just focus on the job at hand not the limitations of the tool because there is no other tool available that does what Biab does.
Biab is a very deep program. It's much, much more capable than what it looks like from the chord grid. Power users can do amazing things with it.
My suggestion to you is use the program for what it can do for you immediately and you can still discuss how these various things can be improved. However there's nothing new you can say about that that PG isn't very well aware of. There are huge threads on this forum where certain people just have a great old time tearing the program completely apart, ripping it to shreds, Biab looks like the biggest pos in the history of programming, if it's not 64 bit RIGHT NOW they're complete idiots etc, etc.
If you get off doing that, have fun but I don't have time for it, I just open Biab and start making some music with it.
As for how it works and sounds now Biab is all over YouTube and there's a ton of vids right here too. Check them out, decide what interests you. Like the rest of us you'll probably decide the full UltraPak is the best deal because you get all the Real Tracks. You may look at some RT categories and think you'll never use those but trust me, that can surprise you. That's what the new Xtra Styles are all about, they spent hundreds of hours putting different RT's together from these different sets and came up with some amazing stuff.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 48
Enthusiast
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OP
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Posts: 48 |
Thanks Bob. I don't disagree it has a lot of capability, and as with you, that's clearly made it worth putting up with the frustration of poor design. And based on what I have seen of the new one, it does seem improved in some ways. I wish there was some kind of trial or limited version of 2016 I could give a look. I think the biggest problem is that, near as I can tell, they don't really have any competition, so they can frankly afford to be complacent/apathetic about improving things that never should have made it to production in the first place (what I call the "Microsoft Syndrome"). I can tell you that in many corporations building apps, such things would never fly and whoever was in charge of design would be probably seeking employment elsewhere. Just an opinion, but I wouldn't expect someone who knows BIAB 2008 to find it all that difficult to get a pretty good feel for 2016 quickly. Sure, you'll find lots of new features and especially tons of new RealTracks, but you should feel at home quickly. If you hit a few snags, just ask us. Thanks! I will definitely keep that mind if I take the plunge.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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))) I wish there was some kind of trial or limited version of 2016 I could give a look.
There is a 30 day money back guarantee. We've offered that same guarantee for 28 years.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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