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I have been helped massively in the past in setting up VSTs in RealBand. I can configure the default VST as well as setting a VST for a specific track. When I use my midi keyboard to record on the VST track I hear the default VST but when I play back the recorded midi it plays, as expected, on the configured VST. I'm sure I had this working before but I can't see how to echo the VST output as I record. In fact I'm sure I was able to do this previously by playing the keyboard without actually recording.
Have I forgotten something?
Regards
John Lundrigan
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One workaround trick, if you are using the default VSTi synth, is to reverse the setup.  Put the current default VSTi synth in the MIDI Port 1 slot instead. Take one MIDI track and assign it to that port. Then you can right click and 'Assign all MIDI tracks to X synth' .. so it is acting like that synth is the default (all MIDI tracks use it) but it is actually an individual port. Now put your other synth you want to play on it's own port, point the new track at it and play away.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks rharv for your reply. I'm not really clear about identifying MIDI Port 1 slot. But I've realised how I managed to get this configuration working previously. When configuring the MIDI devices I deselected the option to route everything to the default VST.
Then when when I select a specific track the midi keyboard will use Thru on that track to operate the VST I set up for that track. I set a different VST on the track below this and confirmed that the selected track would play the relevant VST. I had expected to get nothing from the other tracks when they were selected because the signal was now not being routed to the default VST. However, I did get a response with significant latency (I don't know why though because ASIO is selected throughout)
So this seems to work for me.
I am also interested in what you say about selecting a specific MIDI Port though. I will look at the manual because I think what you say is important for any other work I will do in RealBand.
Regards
John
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This is a continuation of my last post. I managed to get my VST working as intended. That is, I removed the routing to the default synth and my midi controller was quite happy to be echoed on the selected track VST.
I did notice that on other tracks the default VST was used although I had not specifically set this up. But one thing did strike me; if I configured the CoyoteWT synth for a specific track I wondered how to choose a particular voice from this multi timbral VST. I noticed a dialog for this on the track control panel and successfully used this to select from the available instruments on CoyoteWT. When I went back to another track hosting a single voice VST I noticed that the same dialog was also available (and active) to choose a voice. This has no effect (as I hoped). Why is this available.
I am trying to understand how this works. Any lights being shone would be most helpful.
Regards
John
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Right-click a MIDI track and look at the port options .. you'll catch on quick enough.
RB sends MIDI to one of 16 Ports. What you do with those ports is up to you. Most assign one to the 'default synth' as you did previously.
But you can assign any or all tracks/channels to any port you want.
Then you assign a synth to that port. So you can have 16 different synths if you want.
The point I was making was 'don't use the default synth' option.
This routes your input to it.
Instead use a separate port and assign all the tracks to that.
It appears you did so.
As for the patch selection in Coyote;
You have to change the sound for the correct MIDI channel on the track you want.
It may be track 7, but the MIDI data in the Event List may be MIDI channel 4. The Coyote lets you set sounds using the MIDI channel.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks rharv. I will digest your reply post Christmas celebrations.
Regards
John
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Put the current default VSTi synth in the MIDI Port 1 slot instead. Take one MIDI track and assign it to that port. Then you can right click and 'Assign all MIDI tracks to X synth' .. so it is acting like that synth is the default (all MIDI tracks use it) but it is actually an individual port.
Now put your other synth you want to play on it's own port, point the new track at it and play away. Bob you really are the man when it comes to RB. I've seen that "Assign all Midi tracks..." for years and never realized that's what it really means. That's pretty cool. And John, we all have our tastes and if you're happy with the Coyote synth great, but seriously that synth is pretty weak. I wouldn't be spending any time trying to work with those sounds, at least spend $40 or $50 and get the Forte DXi or buy Music Creator (sold by PGM) so you can get the Roland TTS1 synth. Those two are certainly not pro level either but way better than the Coyote. Just MHO. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Thanks Bob. I understand and agree what you mean regarding CoyoteWT and I don't use it generally. It's the fact that it's multi timbral that lets me get up and running quickly with a midi file and then I can choose specific instruments to use on each channel. This is what prompted my question to Bob. Normally I would assign a single instrument to a track as a midi channel (SONAR) and then configure the properties of that instrument using it's plugin properties. However, when I set CoyoteWT to a track and used its properties I could see that I now had one of the 16 channels to choose from so this didn't line up with my understanding of the way midi was being used.
I also use the SONAR TTS-1 for the same purpose but then I have a wide range of sounds from KOMPLETE 9.
I have been trying to figure out the MIDI configuration for RealBand with the help of information from Bob. I have a good understanding of how MIDI itself works; the ports, the channels, events and so on. It is the way in which MIDI is used in RealBand that I am have a bit of difficulty with. From Bob's explanation I ad beginning to see how this works but I was expecting to pick this information up from the user manual under MIDI Configuration. It probably is there and I am missing it somehow.
Regards
John
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Open the PDF manual and search for MIDI Port using CTRL + F keys.
A few hits down and you'll find it {around page 65 here} ..
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks rharv,
Yes, I have been looking in that area (on page 69 of the 2017 manual) but, as far as I can see, it doesn't give any information about the overall way in which MIDI works with RealBand.
Take, for example, the following paragraph from page 69 of the manual:
'The settings panel that opens is either for the default DXi synth (16th DXi synth slot which is MIDI port 32) or the current DXi port number if the track is set to a valid DXi port (17-32).'
Where is the information about the numbering of the DXi synth slots and where can I find the the 16th slot is connected with Port 32?
My understanding of the addressing in MIDI is that there are Ports and there are Channels. Each Port can host up to 16 Channels. This is all quite straightforward until it is combined with the architecture of a DAW like RealBand. In this case the MIDI will have to work in conjunction with the tracks of RealBand.
When I monitor the keys from my midi controller I can see that, by default, the midi signals are received on channel 1 and I can configure the midi controller to specify any of the other 15 channels. But there is no mention of Port number here and how is the midi data being processed by RealBand.
It seems to me that the Thru data appears as a source to ALL the RealBand midi tracks and the fact that each selected track can use this midi data would appear to confirm this. So the midi controller data will appear at each of the tracks, no matter what channel I set the midi controller to.
1.Am I correct in thinking that after a track has received midi data from my midi controller then it is now up to how the track is configured as to how the midi data will then be sent to attached VSTi or patch for that track?
2.Each track requires the capability of 16 channels in order to deal with a connected multi-timbral instrument. Does RealBand differentiates each group of 16 channels by allocating a different port number?
3.The manual seems to imply that you can set a specific Port number for a track. In reality the port number is really selected by the choice of VSTi/DXi instrument chosen for that track. If I choose an existing VSTi from the menu then that VSTi will also receive this track's midi data. If I choose a new VSTi then an appropriate Port number will be generated to associate the VSTi instrument with that track.
I know that in most cases some of this does not matter, just select the VST and it works! But I seem to have this hangup with Port numbers and the connection with the Thru input from my Midi Controller. This is why I was looking for some technical reference in the manual.
If I am correct in the above assumptions then I will have answered my own question and will be very happy.
Kind Regards
John Lundrigan
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Here's how I look at the MIDI flow.
Your MIDI In device handles incoming MIDI from your MIDI keyboard. If you select "Send ALL MIDI data to default DXi/VSTi" it will do just that. Now you'll hear your default MIDI softsynth try to play whatever comes in.
My workflow is that I uncheck this, and assign all the desired MIDI tracks to a separate instance of the same synth on it's own dedicated port (17-31). Now I can uncheck that box and hear all existing MIDI tracks just like they sounded before, but incoming MIDI is no longer routed there.
Then I set the default output port to be what I want. I can still set it to a different synth using the 'Reroute all MIDI' check box if desired, or use a separate (hardware) port by leaving it unchecked.
My normal workflow is to just record both the Audio and MIDI from a synth on given take. This is configured in Prefs. That way I have the sound I 'hear' from the synth but also have the MIDI data in case I want to use a different synth later. I can mute the audo and assign the MIDI to any port/synth. Normally, because I like my hardware synth sounds AND because the fact I am hearing it as I play affects the MIDI performance, I work with the original audio.
BUT if I want to, I also have the option of routing that same MIDI data back to the original hardware synth (or any other) and re-recording the audio sound from it, should I decide I want any adjustments.
This just seems like the most flexible route to me.
But anyway, to make it as basic as I can; the MIDI In gets routed to MIDI Out for sound (or you can record BOTH Audio and MIDI from a hardware synth, which is usually my choice).
So if you use the 'Reroute all MIDI to default DXi synth', RB does just that. All MIDI (including IN) gets routed to there.
At least that's how I've always worked with it.
I'm open to learn though if different in your experience.
Last edited by rharv; 12/29/16 03:34 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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rharv, thank you for your patience and detail. I am very happy with your explanation and it works as you say.
I think where I am getting confused is in the terminology that is being used to describe the operation of midi within RealBand, particularly the use of the words Port and Channel. Port definitions are not not discussed within the manual (at least not that I can see).
The Midi specification defines 16 channels for a single port. A single port could therefore be used to address 16 different synths or the 16 channels of a single multi-timbral synth.
From what I can see, RealBand allocates a maximum of 16 Ports for use with the available tracks. This means that there is a maximum capacity for 16 different synths. A single port can be linked to one or more tracks but the maximum number of possible different synths is still 16.
So Ports (17-32) are for synth slots (1-16). However, when I start a new project and change a track to Midi, I can see it is attached to Port 1!
So, is Port 1 special? What about Ports 2-16?
I do appreciate the work you put into explaining this issue and I understand and have used what you describe. But the Port/Channel/Track architecture in the manual just feels as if there is a page missing. But I do get it now.
Very kind regards
John Lundrigan
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Port 1 would be the default physical MIDI out port.
Some of use harware and have multiple MIDI Out Ports in use also (these can be assigned 1-16).
17-32, as you've learned, is 'softsynths.
So technically you can only have 16 'softsynths' .. but you can easily have dozens of hardware synths (or other MIDI devices from effects to lights) using various hardware routing.. you can have 16 soft and 48 hardware. The limit is softsynths only.
You'd need a good system to run 16 softsynths anyway, and I don't see it as a barrier in actual use.
If I was going to run that much MIDI I'd probably rather use hardware anyway.
Last edited by rharv; 12/30/16 01:53 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I agree with your description and I feel I am getting the picture of the MIDI architecture now. DAWs such as Ableton do not have a logical upper limit on soft synths even though there would be a physical performance limit.
Thank you once again for helping me confirm my thoughts on this topic. You have clearly got a good grasp on this area of the software.
Regards
John Lundrigan
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