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#402196 - 03/23/17 09:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: MarioD]
Larry Kehl Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1969
Loc: New Mexico
if you folks liked the Anniversary update (it caused more than a few headaches for Home users, as well as PRO who did the update) be forewarned in a few weeks the lastest major update Windows (10) Creators is coming.

If you are Home user you'll get it when they push it (or if you are a adventurer you can download now or very soon)

If you are a Win 10 Pro user, I am using pro everywhere (2 laptops and a third boot drive on desktop) it can be delayed (until bugs are fixed or 4 months) ANOTHER reason to get Pro and also to DISCONNECT from cesspool internet when you are doing WORK and do not want to be forceably interrupted

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-tip-temporarily-delay-the-creators-update/


http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/781315/Windows-10-creators-update-automatic-updates-Microsoft-release-date

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/782107/Windows-10-Creators-Update-Microsoft-new-build

I don't HATE MS but this latest fluff OS could have used a business, nose to the grind stone, technical worker version - that kept the security inserts and got rid of the fluff, touch screen driven, pretty pictures, Cortana, MS store, X-box crap it's filled with
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#402209 - 03/23/17 09:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10030
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
if you folks liked the Anniversary update (it caused more than a few headaches for Home users, as well as PRO who did the update) be forewarned in a few weeks the lastest major update Windows (10) Creators is coming.


I was bit in the ar$e by the Anniversary update (as was my wife) on our laptops. I had too much work to do to troubleshoot it, so I upgraded mine back to Windows 7. smile

I was able to get my wife's to finally boot up by using an Acronis Image I had luckily done prior to the Anniversary update), and then when it got applied again, it worked (my guess is the first time was buggy). But all she uses is Microsoft Office and Firefox.

I could have done the same on mine, but I would still have had to re-install a bunch of applications, many of which require authentication that doesn't take between OS upgradees (as I found out when I first upgraded my laptop to Windows 10), so I just went back to Windows 7 for now. I've re-installed everything, and I have a basic Windows 10 image I can use; however, I think I'll wait for the "Creators" update to happen, then download the ISO image, and then try the update on a clean system (since I got mine updated during the free cycle, they already have my credentials for my machine, and I can easily go back and forth between Win7 and Win10 with no consequence.

Interestingly, my HP desktop (even though old) has done just fine with Windows 10.
_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB, 7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#402216 - 03/23/17 10:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10403
Loc: Hamlin NY
Here are a couple of ways to turn off Win 10 updates. You should only do this if your computer is off-line like my music computer. I will not update until I am forced to update by programs, but even then I may just stay with what I have and forget updating everything.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10

http://www.redmondpie.com/disable-turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-heres-how/
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - 2017 BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#402246 - 03/23/17 01:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: MarioD]
Larry Kehl Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1969
Loc: New Mexico
MarioD

Those are mostly just stop gaps

For the "big one" that works (method 3), like me, you still need Win Pro to edit Group Polices (and I have and for more than just updates)

and if you read the info about the upcoming Windows 10 Creators" update it looks like MS will push updates after that update EVEN if you set Metered Connection ON, if they feel the update is "important" - but yes it remains to be seen.


John

I run multiple boots and Win 7 and Win 10 both see a D:\ drive (and there are three other internal drives E:\, H:\, and Z\: - not counting my DVD and Blu-Ray R/W drives). D:\ and E:\ are where 99% of apps get installed (BIAB, Sonar, Cubase, Kontakt and NI stuff, UVI, Fruity Loops 12, GOG games, steam Games, Sampletank and IK stuff, Freelance, Office, Multi-dit, SPSS, SAS, Visio, Visual studio,...)

when Win 7 is booted Win7 is C:\ and Win 10 drive is seen as Y:\
when Win 10 is booted Win 10 is C:\ and Win 7 drive is seen as Y:\

(yep, drive letters reversed)

Each OS sees my "D:\" drive (and other drives) so a lot of stuff only has to be re-installed to same location (with same options) to D:\ (like SPSS, SAS,) and some things like BIAB only need new short cuts and the program can't tell it's a different OS - they all run fine.

as a bonus a lot of things that have "install counters" or "authorization counters" (e.g., Melodyne Studio - 2 installs; Acronis 5 pak, Bitdefender 5 pak, and many others) are assigned to the COMPUTER NAME - NOT the DRIVE letter or OS NAME.

So while I still had to install Acronis, Bitdefender, Melodyne Studio, etc. each twice (once for Win7 and Win 10, and in some cases Win XP) - they only count as ONE (1).

Yes, I've even contacted a few like Acronis, and others, and they have no issues with it, some I DID NOT ASK because I did NOT want to know answer - LOL.


My Win XP drive is seen by BOTH Win7 and Win 10 as drive Z:\. But when Win XP is booted, not often anymore, it is prohibited from "seeing" the two physical drives that hold Win 7 and Win 10 OS's otherwise Win XP deletes the restore points for those OS's - while I don't rely or use restore points, I use Acronis, it's still "dicey" to allow this.


Edited by Larry Kehl (03/23/17 01:13 PM)
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#402264 - 03/23/17 02:39 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10030
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Thanks, Larry. I'll take a look at that as a concept for my laptop. My desktop runs fine with Win10, but I have multibooted.

I've got two 1TB 7200RPM disks (there are two bays in the laptop) and they are getting seriously full with just one O/S. (LOL)

I've pondered going to 1.5 or 2TB drives, but if I want the speed of 7200RPM, it gets prohibitively expensive, and 5400 just seems to run slow. SSD is great for speed, but I would lose a drive bay to a lower capacity disk (as I certainly can't afford the higher capacity ones at this time).

Are your Win7 and Win10 on the same physical drive, or two separate drives? I used to dual boot my desktop by installing one O/S on one physical drive and the other on a different physical drive. Then all I had to do was go into POST setup and change boot order to get the O/S I want.

I've been thinking about running some of my disk content (data/sound libraries/etc) on an external USB (I could use eSATA, but I lose the portableness of the laptop then) and do a dual boot between Win7 and Win10. Also, that needs backed up also, and USB to USB backup is painfully slow for a lot of data.

But my concern is if I get black screened again on Win10, then even though all the application files may be on a D: drive (for example), I would still need to re-install everything to re-establish everything that goes into the C: drive registry.

I used to dual boot between Win7 and XP on my desktop; however, stopped for the same reason (losing my restore points, even though I also use Acronis - and they just sent me a great offer that I may take them up on). smile

I do have some spare (lower capacity disks) big enough to hold the O/S's, so I may be able to experiment.

Thinking out loud, I wonder if I could take a Win7 installation, clone it to the second disk, then just do a Win10 in place upgrade on the second disk to quickly get a dual boot (with apps installed to a different partition). That would get most of the apps' registry information into Win10 without too much pain (and when I did the in place upgrade when Win10 first came out, even many of my license authorizations transferred). If that worked, I could just repeat the process if I ever had a problem in the future (take an Acronis image of Win7, say, apply it to the second disk, boot from that one, then do an in place upgrade to Win10. Microsoft already has my machine ID for Win10, so re-installation and licensing should not be a problem.

I do have some iLok libraries, and I may have to break down and get the iLok dongle, as in the above scenario, it would be a lot of releasing licenses and adding them back in (I'm not sure what iLok tags to). The dongle would eliminate that. I already have one USB dongle from Steinberg for Cubase Artist and for some of their sound libraries I own (Halion, for example).

You've given me some stuff to think about and probably waste a little of my time, but it will be fun.

BTW, I do still run XP on occasion, but just do it as a VM in VMWare.

Bottom line though (if anyone has even read this much) is that I'm not anti-Win10; it's just extremely frustrating when it has been working fine for over a year, then you sit and watch it do a bunch of l-o-o-o-o-n-g updates (because, well you just booted it and want to use it), and then it won't boot at all. And you find lots and lots of other folks are having the same problem. Mine, I guess, is the reverse problem...I want the new operating system to run on my old hardware (versus this thread, which is old operating systems running on new hardware).
_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB, 7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#402293 - 03/23/17 04:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: jford]
Larry Kehl Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1969
Loc: New Mexico
John,

Each OS is on its own 2TB 7200 HDD (WD Black) - actually all the drives are 2TB WD blacks, when I built (2011) it was too expensive to put in 10k RPM drives and 2TB's 10K were rare as hens teeth.
So 12TB's internal storage (and a scores of USB 2 and USB 3 drives for additional -redundant storage, backups, and off site backups - I make redundant back-ups and move one off site every week)

USE EasyBCD its FREE for BOOT options and control and management

http://neosmart.net/EasyBCD/

Not sure I would do or try dual boot in a laptop, the redundant overhead required for OS's is wasteful (just my opinon) - at least until you can get dual, or more, internal SDD's and they would need to be LARGE (2TB's or more) again IMHO

Check PM I think we've worn out our welcome in this thread

Larry
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#402322 - 03/23/17 08:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: Larry Kehl]
Ryszard Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3876
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Eddie, if you thought all I was upset about in Windows 10 was the [potential, but highly likely] lack of updated drivers for my interfaces, you did not read everything I wrote. I repeat: I despise 10.

I immersed myself in PC mechanics in the early 1990s, reading thousands of pages in textbooks and manuals, eventually taking a Microsoft certification course in 2000. I refused to take the test when I saw this question in the study guide: "Microsoft Windows is the most elegant operating system ever devised by the mind of man: T/F?" What arrogance.

I worked for pay configuring, repairing, and upgrading PCs for many years, though, from DOS 3.x to 6.22, and all versions of Windows from 3.1 to 7. I am not speaking from a vacuum.

You commented on Microsoft patching Windows security holes. One thing you and everyone reading should know is that, when MS releases a new version, THEY LEAVE THE SAME SECURITY HOLES THAT THE PREVIOUS VERSION HAD TO START WITH. This was true at least through XP.

If they do it differently now, that's great, but it is one reason that I am so big on third-party security apps, and a large part of why I dislike MS so much. (Incidentally, a long-time MS employee told me a few years ago that they had released a new version of their flagship database to enterprise customers with known, major security holes.)

So device drivers aren't their responsibility. Pfeh. They still suck at what they do.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#402325 - 03/23/17 09:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10030
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
Check PM I think we've worn out our welcome in this thread.


Agreed.
_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB, 7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#403724 - 03/26/17 09:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: Ryszard]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6370
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Ryszard
I have never liked Microsoft. I DESPISE Windows 10.

Hope that clears things up for you.


Ok. My only comment is the same one I give to noobies on this forum when they think Biab is crap because it just won't work for them. That comment is this:

If's it's so bad why isn't this forum full of posts about your same problems?

The answer obviously is very few are having these same problems.

I read your last post in this thread, it sounds to me like you're out of date. Things change, there's a whole new regime running MS now. Have you read all those articles I've referenced before from Cakewalk about Sonar, Pete from MS who's a high level musician and DAW user, all the different articles about security? These are current articles, not ancient history stuff.

As to your issue with your Presonus Audiobox, maybe this helps?

http://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210050723-PreSonus-Windows-10-Compatibility-Statement

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#403751 - 03/26/17 12:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 980
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Originally Posted By: Big john


Thanks Big John, used my Win8.1 key for my wife's laptop. Wiped it completely clean and installed the Win10.iso from disc and no issues after the stuff below.


Originally Posted By: jford

I was bit in the ar$e by the Anniversary update (as was my wife) on our laptops. I had too much work to do to troubleshoot it, so I upgraded mine back to Windows 7. smile


John, everything on the wife's laptop on installing a clean Win10.iso went fine until the Anniversary update. It would take nearly an hour on each pass only to download and fail. I spent the weekend on this and finally got it to work.

Wanted to share this as that Anniversary update was a PAIN!!!

SOLUTION

- Scroll down to where it says, "Steps of manual resolving".
- I followed solutions 1 through 3 and it finally installed on solution 3.
- Solution 1 and 2 can take up to an hour each on those DISM steps.
- To save time maybe just start with solution 3.


Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
If you folks liked the Anniversary update (it caused more than a few headaches for Home users, as well as PRO who did the update) be forewarned in a few weeks the latest major update Windows (10) Creators is coming.


Thanks Larry. In my case, all of our machines are on Win10 PRO. I think I'll take one for the PG forum team here and start working on the Creators update on my main laptop. There's an option in Updates to upgrade early.
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 12.8, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

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#403759 - 03/26/17 01:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Microsoft begins blocking updates for older Windows versions on newer hardware [Re: pghboemike]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10030
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
And just last night my wife's Win10 laptop decided that it didn't like the Logitech wireless mouse and keyboard. Showed driver errors and just hung for hours on reboot until I figured out to take the unifying transmitter out of the USB port. At least she can use the built in laptop keyboard and mouse until I can figure it out. Trying to reinstall the driver just hung. I was troubleshooting way too late last night, and bed was calling, so the fix will have too wait for another day.
_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB, 7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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