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#407347 - 04/14/17 01:05 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3975
Loc: South Carolina
I understand, no problem in agreeing to disagree. Myself and many others happily share our knowledge any time we can help and hope you will give us the opportunity if the need arises.

I will say that you have never actually articulated to us what you can't do with BIAB. Completing the steps to input chords and generate a song is pretty much as complicated as it gets. Midi setup and vst's can be troublesome but are only issues if that is an area you want to use to enhance the sound quality, dynamics or add an effect to a song. Notation can be a mystery but moreso because one needs to understand notation. Everything beyond the point of generating a song are methods, techniques or procedures to make your tracks sound better, be more authentic to an original piece or to function in practice and educational aspects. In other words, they are not necessary to navigate BIAB.

New users of BIAB/RB that join the forum are fresh eyes and ears to forum members and PGMusic. We welcome your insight, criticisms and suggestions. Hopefully, disagreeing with you or you disagreeing with us will not discourage your participation.

Charlie
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:BIAB Build 505, RB 2018 Build 3; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#407366 - 04/14/17 02:12 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2124

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#407368 - 04/14/17 02:44 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4477
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: texasprenegade
I have never in my decades of using and writing software seen a more confusing, disorganized, and cluttered user interface than Band in a Box, and never experienced a greater need for good tutorials. Please, fire the GUI department and start over. Start with mashing together Chordpulse and the Digitech Trio (but in software) -- each is stupidly easy to use. Complexity can be added in a better way than just cramming another button on the front page.





Interesting that the two examples you cite are toys compared to BIAB.

Chordpulse? Seriously? grin

No one here will tell you to RTFM before calling for a complete re-write of the program. They are too nice. I will. It's worth it.


Regards,


Bob
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



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#407563 - 04/15/17 04:10 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3186
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: 90 dB

Interesting that the two examples you cite are toys compared to BIAB.

Chordpulse? Seriously? grin

No one here will tell you to RTFM before calling for a complete re-write of the program. They are too nice. I will. It's worth it.

Regards,

Bob


Bob,

The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.

I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2017 BiaB (470) UltraPlusPak RB 2017 (Build 8)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

++ Saving My Sanity One Song At A Time ++

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#407658 - 04/16/17 06:44 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: Jim Fogle]
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 7260
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle

I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.

I have to agree. All of the information is beneficial. However there needs to be possibly at least two levels of manuals:
1: Most Users - Fundamental settings to get you going and perform typical functions.
2: Experts - Under the Hood. The Nuts and Bolts that hold it all together, how it works, and why.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#407669 - 04/16/17 07:58 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: Jim Fogle]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4477
Loc: Florida
John Ford said the same thing , albeit with more finesse. wink

This GUI debate is getting tedious.


Is the UI clunky? Yep.

Is it buggy sometimes? Yep.

Consider this:

There are no other programs that can do what this one can. Period.




“The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.

I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.”




So, you've spent several hundred dollars on a very complex program, and you don't “have time” to crack a manual? I love manuals. You can learn how to use stuff with them. wink



Regards,


Bob
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



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#407694 - 04/16/17 12:43 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: 90 dB]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2124
I would rather watch a movie than read a book, you do an "RTFM" as a last resort, most people these days would rather watch a video.

"PG was approached by Universal to make a movie about it."
that was a joke, but I think it is really what it needs, a Movie, as in long, covering all aspects like an up to date Video Manual without having to go to Groove3 and and other Tutorials.

"The videos on pgmusic.com are several years out of date and mostly worthless to a new user."

"The first nice attempts pointed me to some videos that I found inadequate."

"What is needed is a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software. Most people have no trouble doing the basics, but if you delve deeper, Band-in-a-Box can do many other things."

A local video manual rather than video help buttons linked to old youtube videos, I have these below but the are all old ones.

I would sit down and make them but I don't have any where near enough musical knowledge or about all the ins n outs of BB.

You can just use mp4 h264 low bitrate/framerate and they are not much bigger than an audio file.



Attachments
BB-Video-Manual.jpg



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#407697 - 04/16/17 01:41 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3186
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
John Ford said the same thing , albeit with more finesse. wink

This GUI debate is getting tedious. I agree

Is the UI clunky? Yep. Again I agree

Is it buggy sometimes? Yep. We are still in agreement

Consider this:

There are no other programs that can do what this one can. Period.Bob, you are so right with this comment!


“The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.

I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.”

So, you've spent several hundred dollars on a very complex program, and you don't “have time” to crack a manual? I love manuals. You can learn how to use stuff with them. wink Nope. Actually I've read the manual several times cover to cover. I also make it a point to skim through the manual with each revision to find out where the changes are documented. I love manuals too! I wrote manuals for more than a decade and proofread manuals even longer. I can't think of any program that needs a 669 page description.

Regards,

Bob


I don't think we disagree, I just sometimes enjoy having the conversation.

Sincerely,

Jim
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2017 BiaB (470) UltraPlusPak RB 2017 (Build 8)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

++ Saving My Sanity One Song At A Time ++

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#407970 - 04/18/17 12:47 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: Pipeline]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6344
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
I would rather watch a movie than read a book, you do an "RTFM" as a last resort, most people these days would rather watch a video.


Right and this is why society has turned into a bunch of 30 second, no scratch that, 15 second soundbite idiots with the attention span of a 2 year old.

Doctors don't become doctors by watching videos. Engineers don't become engineers by watching videos. I didn't become a tax expert by watching stupid videos. It takes study, good writing skills and experience. EXPERIENCE.

Experience, what a concept.

This is a music program. Anybody here think music is SIMPLE? Is it EASY? Hell no. Music is one of the most complex things there is. Software that can approach pro level quality is by it's very nature extremely complex. There are college degrees in music production. Those courses are all about working with software because that's what every studio in the world uses. Software, software and more software. You want complex, try Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar. Biab by contrast is quite simple compared to those.

Pipeline you seem to be an expert with a whole range of high end music software. Just how long have you been doing this? How long did it take you to be come this proficient? What is your background that allowed you to become so proficient with both computers and all this music software?

It ain't easy and watching some video tutorials is a decent start to get you going but they won't make you an expert. Reading 619 pages of the manual is what's needed for that. And lots of experience. Did I say that word again? Why, yes I did. Experience.

Forget the GUI and start making some music. When you're stuck post it here and somebody will show you how it's done. .

In the time it's taken for some of you guys but especially the OP, to write this huge gripefest about the GUI you could have created 10 songs and posted questions asking how to make them better.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#408061 - 04/18/17 01:03 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
Tobias Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1538
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
Huh? Band In A Box has a manual?
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#408110 - 04/18/17 03:02 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
texasprenegade Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/10/17
Posts: 7
Re: videos. If I ask a colleague to help me with software, the most effective way is to watch him do it while he explains what he's doing. That's all a video is. Some prefer that method of learning, not because they have short attention spans but because it's very effective. The get off my lawn comments about the kids these days are irrelevant.

I've read TFM. It doesn't help much. I am putting in the time and don't expect instant gratification. But I've put in enough time to form an opinion about the UI from a beginner's perspective--yes, I'm entitled to an opinion on the UI. Eventually I am learning to do things on my own. But just because I can eventually figure stuff out doesn't mean the UI couldn't be much much better. My complaints are not about doing one specific thing or another. The problem is it takes much longer to figure out than it should and I have to rely on trial and error.

Nobody is saying a complicated program has to be easy at first glance. Examples I gave are those that paid attention to its design for functionality's sake, not because they look pretty.

The gripes about the software have nothing to do with music or music education or anything like that. Learning music theory and learning to use this software have nothing to do with each other. The opinions are all about the functionality of the user interface. A UI is ~supposed~ to help the user, but in my opinion the UI does a terrible job of it. Note I'm not criticizing the capabilities of BIAB at all, just the UI.

Y'all don't have to agree with me. If you like the UI and think it makes sense, that's super. These are my opinions on the UI and the UI only, not the capabilities or complexity of the software.

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#408126 - 04/18/17 03:46 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2124
Quote:
"a more confusing, disorganized, and cluttered user interface than Band in a Box"
That sounds about right, I appreciate your input from someone who is new to Biab, this gives the developers information to improve Biab.


I'm right there with you, some users come here with problems they find and say that things need to be improved, but are shot down, put off and never return, others stick around and make these things happen, by nagging, pleading, suggesting new ways, ideas to do things to make BB/RB better.

As said before you bring valuable information from a new user's perspective.
Don't stop, just keep posting ideas and ways you think it can be improved !

It's gone from this,:


To this,:


Then to this that needs your input: ???























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#408150 - 04/18/17 04:28 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: Tobias]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18499
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Originally Posted By: Tobias
Huh? Band In A Box has a manual?


Gotta admit, that made me laugh.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#408162 - 04/18/17 05:08 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: rharv]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5384
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: rharv
Originally Posted By: Tobias
Huh? Band In A Box has a manual?


Gotta admit, that made me laugh.


Love it! I remember I used to keep a copy of the BIAB manual by my bedside - 20 years ago. It was apparently much smaller then.
_________________________
Dan
BIAB2018
BIAB User Map
SoundCloud


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#408173 - 04/18/17 05:41 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: BIAB's GUI [Re: texasprenegade]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18499
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I kept it in the room directly across from the bathroom ..
sorry, just sayin'
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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Moderator:  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 
PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

We have put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog/blog/how-to-record-a-cover-song-using-band-in-a-box-and-realband

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=IYMMZVvQdCw

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me": http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433190

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:
http://floydjane.com/
https://www.janiceandbud.com/

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 49 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts more than 50 new features... and a lot of the new features fill the requests posted by program users!

Some of these include:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I love the Audio Chord Wizard, as it figures out chords from mp3 and other audio files. But it is a separate program from Band-in-a-Box, and I can’t go back and forth to change things easily.

A. We've solved that, as BiaB 2018 has integrated the Audio Chord Wizard directly into Band-in-a-Box. Now load an audio file into BiaB, open the Audio Edit Window – Audio Chord Wizard mode, and let it automatically figure out the bar lines and chords for the song.

Q. I like to save songs as MP3 files, and can't do this with BiaB, except a very low quality one, 64kbps.

A. We've improved this, by adding support for Windows Media Foundation. This allows you to save MP3 in your choice of resolutions, up to very high 320mpbs. Better still, it works on current versions of Windows (Windows 7,8,10) and also on older versions too (Vista, XP).

We've answered 49 questions - review all of these answers on our forum post "49 of your Problems solved? List of 49 Requests fulfilled in Band-in-a-Box 2018" here.

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

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