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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7 |
I am having trouble figuring out how to enter an Ebdim(maj7) chord and an Em7b5sus4 chord. Does BIAB support these chords and if so how would I enter them?
Thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Ebdim(maj7) - Eb,Gb,A,D in closed form, try a D/Eb which would yield an Eb in the bass with D,F#,A up above. Expect some doubling on the D sometimes, depending.
Em7b5sus4 - E,G,A,Bb,D - You might be able to use a Gm/E, which will yield the E bass with G,Bb,D above, no A. Gm9/E would add the A, but also will add an F to the other three notes. G2/E would substitute the A, but no Bb -- G,A,D and use the slash /E for the E in the bass.
Yeah, they are all workarounds.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Newbie
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OP
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Thanks, I will try the slash chords, they should work.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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A workaround I sometimes use in cases like this is to enter the closest chord you can then enter the song into the sequencer of your choice and modify the chord structure there.
For instance your Em7b5sus4. I would enter Em7 in BiaB then in Sonar I would change the B to a Bb and add the A and D. A sequencer is also the best way to change the chord inversion.
I hope this helps.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
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For Edim maj7 try C7#9/E as it often emphasises the b5 better than the Eb/E slash chord altermative. The C (#5) will often be left out of the equation as the root of the chord but if it does sound it often reinforces the diminished W/H scale sourse so it still sounds good IMO.
The Emin7b5sus4 might be obtained by other workarounds like A7susb9/E but be careful of the unwanted embellishments that sometimes creep in with altered dominants. If something doesnt sound right you can disable embellishments for a certain instrument in the style pattern editor.
Adding notes to chords using BIAB should be explored rather than as Mario suggests, using a sequencer. It looks complicated on paper but is actually a breeze to do in reality once you get the steps memorized.
1 Move the the generated chord part to the melody channel (copy >move tracks),
2 Set up a new melody harmony with only melody and a low root voice shifted up to the piano range.
3 Then move your original chords to another part of the sheet. Replace with just the note you want added and a slash root of the original chord for the bass.
4 Mute the piano channel and when you regenerate the track and the melody harmony will add the desired note somewhere in the chord.
5 Go to Edit melody and convert harmony to melody,.. then move your original changes back in place. Keep the piano channel muted. your chords should now sound as you want them.
I'll add this workaroud to the tips section as I find myself repeating it a lot.
Total control over chord voicing is possible in BIAB when you combine this technique with another i'll go into on that forum. It may be even more work intensive but its worth it in the end if you have unusual cluster and non-tonal chords in mind.
Hope this helps
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 10/29/09 10:03 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Apprentice
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Alan: Wow! Kudos for the work you've put in to this matter.
However, isn't this part of why pgmusic came up with RealBand?
Mac: In BIAB, G2 (yes, GAD) actually would mean (frustratingly incorrectly) G(add2) (GABD). As far as I'm concerned, there is no such animal as G2; there is either Gsus2 --OR-- G(add2), major or minor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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Expert
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Hi Leovigild,
Not sure I understand your point - G2 is a useful chord being a G9 without the 7th
jazzman
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
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There may not be such an animal as G2, but I have do have an extraordinary amount of sheet music that has "2" chords all over the place. So publishers are definitely using it.
As far as BIAB is concerned, it is simply a shorthand for G(add9). If you want a G(add9), you have to enter it as a G2. Of course, that's different from Gsus2, because the G2 can have the 3rd in it (G A B D), whereas the Gsus2 would not have the 3rd ( G A D).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Newbie
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OP
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Thanks for all of the help. It is too bad that there isn't a quick intuitive way to add notes to chords or make the chords up yourself by entering single notes instead of being limited to the supported chords. Is this possible in RealBand as one previous poster seems to suggest?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There is indeed a G2, often used in folk music and sounding quite different (simpler) from the Gadd9.
I'm not as sure about the meaning of a Gsus2. A suspended chord is supposed to be able to resolve. To where does a sus2 resolve?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
To where does a sus2 resolve?
Sounds good resolving to the Major...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Quote:
Is this possible in RealBand as one previous poster seems to suggest?
Hi William--I was really just echoing MarioD's reply, in that you can tweak a BIAB chord structure any way you want with RealBand, which is a hybrid of BIAB and PowerTracks.
Now, it may be that X2 is found as a chord symbol in certain music genres, but I have NEVER seen it in any jazz score or jazz fake book.
As for Xsus2, it is a suspension from below, resolving upward to the third. Listen to James Taylor's guitar parts--he often toggles between X, Xsus4, and Xsus2. OR you don't have to resolve it at all, just use Xsus2 or Xsus4 as a free standing structure. Mike Stern, for example, uses them that way quite frequently.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Fake chord notations qualify as a bona fide "living language".
As such, the compendium is dynamic and is growing constantly as needs arise.
New additions to the chord compendium are not nonvalid, by any means.
If the new addition turns out to be easy to recognize by the majority of musicians and if the type of chord notation that the new addition catches on as a chord sound, then that new addition, such as the X2 chord mentioned here, will likely "grow" to become used in all genres that use fakechord notations.
It is interesting to notice that the Pop genre has been leading the way for the last couple of decades or so, there is also a bit of "crossover" influencing the situation, I think.
When penning a chart, it may become necessary at some point for you to have to actually come up with a new fakechord designator. The "rules" here are natural -- if what you pen is easy for musicians to grasp what it is, follows as much of the "convention" of rules for fake chords that has preceded it and is needed in more than just "your" song, it may someday end up as part of the compendium. Or not.
Fake Chord notations have also historically been known to be location-centric. For example, "West Coast Notation" was once used to describe certain Pop fake chordings that jazzers on the East Coast wanted to belittle as not being "real". -- Until one or two of thier own started using them. See Herbie Hancock and his use of the "Pipe" chord notation...
--Mac
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