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#407998 - 04/18/17 06:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Notes Norton]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8389
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:

I'm thinking about re-doing them with a Ketron and higher bitrate because things are better now

Notes, Yes. I think they really deserve this. I think you will be doing the product the justice it really deserves, and potential customers a great favor. smile
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#408011 - 04/18/17 08:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Dzjang]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6592
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
When I wrote earlier about the differences between GM and non-GM midi I was referring to stuff like Garritan uses the mod wheel for volume control. That's not GM spec. SampleTank has some drum kits that are GM mapped but most of them use Imap. This allows keyboard players to use their hands to play drum parts on a keyboard in a much more natural way than GM drumkit mapping allows for. Same thing with other drum controllers. All use different mapping than the standard basic GM.

Most of the big name softsynths don't even have a GM soundbank. Ask yourself why is that? It's because GM is way too restrictive with it's midi controls, way too restrictive with it's instrument banks. Notes talked about how the patch map numbers are the same. True but you only get one or two patches of each instrument. One nylon guitar, one standard grand piano and one bright piano. A piano VST by itself has dozens and they give you stuff like mic placement controls, lid up/down/partial controls, room ambience and much more. Partial pedal dampening. None of that is in the GM spec.

The best horn and string VSTi libraries are the same. All the different lip, mouth, bowing articulations that have zero to do with GM. It's all those controls that allows a good player to make synths sound real.

That's what I was talking about. GM is very basic and pro's could care less about it.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#408016 - 04/18/17 09:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11450
Loc: Hamlin NY
Bob I agree that is basic and limited and that is why a lot of amateurs also do not use it. Even BiaB is breaking away from strictly GM by adding VSTi and ST2 and Sforzando (sfz).

Have you noticed how many "how do I add (insert a VSTi), "how do I assign a MIDI channel" etc BiaB questions lately? Some forum members are discovering there are better MIDI sounds than what comes with BiaB, even though there are much better sounding VSTis then what comes with BiaB now. But the fact is ST2 and SFZ both sound a lot better than BiaB GM plus you can do more with them.

As far as I am concerned GM is dying a slow death.

YMMV
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#408330 - 04/19/17 12:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Dzjang]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4449
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
The only thing standard in GM are the patch numbers.

The 127 continuous controllers are the same on all synths, GM or not, they are part of the Standard MIDI File set. Whether a particular synth responds to all 127 CC's depends on the synth maker. And there are GM and non-GM synths that don't support them all.

And yes, GM synths don't have every sound known to the synth world, but neither do no-GM synths. But GM synths do include the standard 127 voice GM set.

And no, all GM synths are not restricted to one sound for each of those 127 instruments. My SD 90 has a minimum of 4 variations and up to 20 variations of the same sound simply by adding a MSB and LSB into either the patch selector or entering them with CCs.

My XV5050 has thousands of sounds and it included a GM bank. Same for my SD90. My Ketron has 4 banks, one of which is GMIDI - so please don't be spreading the misconception that GMIDI synths are limited to GM sounds. There are plenty of synths that do not have a GMIDI bank that have thousands of fewer sounds than my XV.

There are good sounding synths with a GM bank and lame sounding synths with a GM bank. There are also good sounding synths without a GM band and bad sounding synths without a GM bank.

All GM specifies are common patch numbers for 127 patches - or twice that for GM2. Everything else is covered by the Standard MIDI File specs, and both GM and non-GM synths either include or don't include everything in the specs.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#408502 - 04/20/17 11:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Notes Norton]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 235
Loc: Milano, Italy
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
The only thing standard in GM are the patch numbers.

And yes, GM synths don't have every sound known to the synth world, but neither do no-GM synths. But GM synths do include the standard 127 voice GM set.

And no, all GM synths are not restricted to one sound for each of those 127 instruments.

My XV5050 has thousands of sounds and it included a GM bank. Same for my SD90. My Ketron has 4 banks, one of which is GMIDI - so please don't be spreading the misconception that GMIDI synths are limited to GM sounds.

There are good sounding synths with a GM bank and lame sounding synths with a GM bank. There are also good sounding synths without a GM band and bad sounding synths without a GM bank.

All GM specifies are common patch numbers for 127 patches - or twice that for GM2. Everything else is covered by the Standard MIDI File specs, and both GM and non-GM synths either include or don't include everything in the specs.

Agreed on all points.

HTH,
_________________________
Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy
https://soundcloud.com/theodore-kojak/tracks
Hy-Bro Test Sound Files

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#413327 - 05/15/17 10:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: jazzmammal]
iska13 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 1
My search today was to find a method for humanistic feels from BIAB. I believe you may have satisfied my quest. Ive heard some really dynamic jazz backing tracks that was said to been created by BIAB. But as you've stated they probably used a DAW for the final product. So I should learn how to get BIAB multi midi tracks properly imported in a DAW. I have LogicPro X, StudioOne V3, and Cubase. Will one work better than the other. My main need for BIAB is to create dynamic backing tracks for my wife (singer) and I (sax) to perform with and not sound boring.

I would very much appreciated if you would share anymore words of wisdom.


Thank you

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#413354 - 05/15/17 03:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: iska13]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4597
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: iska13
My search today was to find a method for humanistic feels from BIAB. I believe you may have satisfied my quest. Ive heard some really dynamic jazz backing tracks that was said to been created by BIAB. But as you've stated they probably used a DAW for the final product. So I should learn how to get BIAB multi midi tracks properly imported in a DAW. I have LogicPro X, StudioOne V3, and Cubase. Will one work better than the other. My main need for BIAB is to create dynamic backing tracks for my wife (singer) and I (sax) to perform with and not sound boring.

I would very much appreciated if you would share anymore words of wisdom.


Thank you


The DAW that will work the best for you is the DAW you are the most familiar with and understand the best to edit audio and midi. BIAB exported tracks are 44.1k/16 bit audio files so they are recognized by every DAW exactly the same.

With time and patience working and learning BIAB, you can make as professional quality backing tracks as anything you can find on the market.

Charlie
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#413702 - 05/16/17 08:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Notes Norton]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 782
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Yes, my demo files are done on the mediocre plug-in soft synth that PG provided at the time. I could have put them on the best sounds of my array of modules, but then if someone bought them and played them on the Coyote or whatever, they might think I misrepresented the product. Plus they are recorded as mp3 files - some with a low bit rate of 32kbps because back then people used dial-ups.

I'm thinking about re-doing them with a Ketron and higher bitrate because things are better now, but it's finding the time. We are gigging doing 4-5 one-nighers per week in the season and 2-3 in the off season, and I'm also trying to make more MIDI styles and Fake Disks that can use either MIDI or RT styles. (I haven't watched a single TV show since the late 1980s)

And if MIDI sounds fake, than the majority of keyboard parts you hear on hit records and plenty of the other instruments sound fake to you as well.

But that wasn't my point.

My point is expression is 100 times more important than the sound. And MIDI allows you to customize the expression. MIDI allows you to change the expression to whatever you want it to be. It allows you to manipulate the music to say what you want it to say.

Yes, our promo video sounds MIDI-ish, and most of the songs definitely have BiaB in there somewhere. I've added some song specific licks and kicks in them to make them sound like the songs I'm representing, and not sound like someone using an arranger keyboard or BiaB live accompaniment. What I've done to them you couldn't do this with RealTracks.

Plus, we have been working steadily since 1985 and get more work and charge higher prices than those duos playing 'real instruments' with a drum machine.

The public doesn't give a @!#&% whether your sounds are MIDI or "real", they want to hear the music the way they want to hear it.



Now the RealTracks sound great, as a musician I appreciate good tone. But I am also a pro musician and know what the public wants. And what the audience wants is actually more important than what I want.

You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians or you can play for the general public. If you are good enough, you'll get the audience you asked for.

If the RT fits the bill perfectly, I'll use them. Sometimes I'll use RT or some RT instruments on songs, especially jazz standards that are chord/melody based instead of riff based like a lot of modern pop music.

But most modern pop music is riff based and any auto-accompaniment style is generic by design. With MIDI I can modify the BiaB output and put the riffs and kicks in.

I repeat because it's important, the public doesn't care if the sound is MIDI. They want to hear and feel the music. Try doing James Brown's "I Got You (I Feel Good)" with a real track and tell me how many people are going to dance to it. Or thousands of other songs that need something that identifies them.

You can't do this or thousands of other songs with RealTracks, but you can manipulate MIDI tracks to do this. We do this song and the crowd loves it.



Notes


I get where your coming from, but for me it's all about real tracks. Why would I pay for audiophile edtion just to use MIDI. Sure, I'm not going to have the backing track emulate the oringal song, but I'm nopt all about that. If the general public doesn't care about whether or not you use MIDI or not, then people would not pay money to see live bands. I do understnand your point as I have tracks made by a guy that use cheesy keyboard sound recorded onto mp3. Also, I don't have the time to meticulously edit every detail for ever MIDI track.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#413859 - 05/17/17 05:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Go Dutch! Barebones Biab and in-app style purchasing? I'm into biab for the music, not for the featu [Re: Dzjang]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4449
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Islansoul
<...snip...> If the general public doesn't care about whether or not you use MIDI or not, then people would not pay money to see live bands. <...>

People pay to SEE live bands because they want to WATCH them make the music.

I have been in a duo since 1985 with 100% MIDI backing tracks that I make myself. We work steadily and are probably the highest paid duo in my area. We currently have a house gig for 9 years running now and have had repeat business that have hired us since the 1980s.

It's what I do for a living.

The public neither knows nor cares that my tracks are 100% MIDI. They like watching Leilani and I sing and play guitars, sax, flute and synthesizers along with the tracks.

What we do is play our music expressively, choose the right songs for the customers, and entertain them.

And I might add that our MIDI tracks sound more "life" than pre-recorded tracks.

What?

Is this blasphemy?

Actually not. There is a difference between having a mix for a recording and a mix for live. What do you hear as you approach a gig with a live band first? Snare drum and bass?

By having complete control over every instrument I can remix things for live performance. I can kick up the snare and kick drum leaving the rest of the drum set alone. I can also exaggerate the groove and put the snare ahead or behind the beat a tad when appropriate. I can even mix a little timbale on the 2 & 4s on the snare to approximate the drummer hitting the head an the rim at the same time and put a couple of MIDI tics between them.

I can pump the bass up, I can change the guitar to a different brand of electric, I can detune the horns a little to approximate stretch tuning to make them sound better and do all kinds of things to make the backing tracks sound more "live" than a recording mixed to sound good in your living room.

That's not to negate Real Tracks, because everyone has their own way of doing things and there is more than one right way to make music.

This works for me, paid off the mortgage, and buys me a yearly international vacation.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows - User Programmable Functions

But, what if you want to be able to tell the program to do MORE than that?

Head to Chapter 14: User Programmable Functions within the online manual, and you'll learn more about programmable features like:

The StyleMaker
Create brand-new styles or edit existing styles!

Making RealDrums Styles
Template file included! You can either record a drummer, or you can piece together a wave file using drum loops!

The Harmony Maker
Create or edit your own (or existing) harmonies!

The Soloist Maker and The Melodist Maker
Define your own Soloists or Melodists in whichever style you'd like!

The Guitarist Maker
The program will intelligently arrange any melody to a guitar chord solo by inserting real guitar voicings throughout the piece. There are many preloaded Guitarists to choose from, or you can customize existing Guitarists’ settings or make your own Guitarists from scratch using this feature.

#TBT Band-in-a-Box® 2017 Review - Software for Learning Saxophone

McGill Music Sax School posted a video review of Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows last year, stating "I love using software to help learn saxophone. One of my favourite programs is Band-in-a-Box. It's a really powerful tool for quickly making backing tracks I can use for lessons, or my own practice."

Check it out! www.pgmusic.com/?vid=2AgfV7emdLQ

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Importing MIDI Files

Did you know that Standard MIDI files can be read in to the Melodist or Soloist track within Band-in-a-Box? You can use all of the MIDI File, or select channels or a specific range of bars, using these steps:
1. Melody | Import Melody from MIDI File to select a MIDI file from disk using the file dialog.
2. Melody | Import Melody from Clipboard - when the MIDI data is already copied from another program to the
clipboard.

A new window will open, asking for additional criteria - which channels, # of bars to offset..., # of bars to import, include lyrics, include patch changes - and more! Head to our online manual Chapter 10: Working with MIDI to learn more!

YouTube Find - Your First 15 Minutes with Band-in-a-Box

Woody Piano Shack recently got their hands on Band-in-a-Box after a long time without the program - and they're thrilled!!

Check out this video they've shared to their YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/9dxSfwjBvG0

Thanks Woody Piano Shack!

National Dictionary Day - Guitar & Piano Chord Dictionaries

Today is National Dictionary Day!

We offer 2 dictionaries for just $19 each: the Guitar Chord Dictionary & the Piano Chord Dictionary!

Each of these programs are easy to use! Simply choose a root note, select the chord you want to learn, and the Dictionary will play and display the chord!

An Essential Tool for any Musician!

User Tip - Band-in-a-Box® to Reaper: The Basics

Forum user DeaconBlues09 has created a video to demonstrate how easy the process is for them to streamline their workflow with DAWs, particularly Reaper - check it out: click here to watch.

Join the forum discussion.

Train Your Brain with Band-in-a-Box®

National Train Your Brain Day is October 13th!

Open your Band-in-a-Box® program, and you'll find the [Practice] button in the toolbar - it's a GREAT resource!
Minimized your toolbar? Head to Window | Practice Window or ALT SHIFT L to access

In this window, you'll find many options to help you practice, including Ear Training games, access to the Chord Builder and Chord Subs, some helpful tools within the Playalong Features menu, and more!

Train Your Brain with Band-in-a-Box® today!

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