You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#438261 - 11/16/17 04:33 AM [Beginners Forum] Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?

Top
#438299 - 11/16/17 09:16 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8056
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Could you give us some more information on what Real Tracks and Style you are using?

Also, what version of BiaB?

That would assist to check further.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#438337 - 11/16/17 11:33 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13099
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?


Yes, I have experienced something similar what you describe.

Try this...

To get the Realtrack back on track, put a chord on beat 3 in the cell that you've set as 2 beats. This chord doesn't play (so it doesn't matter what it is), but it helps realign the Realtrack generation.

If you have BIAB 2017, the chord on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar will be gray to show that it is inactive. This is the beat to use.

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#438440 - 11/17/17 04:19 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Could you give us some more information on what Real Tracks and Style you are using?

Also, what version of BiaB?

That would assist to check further.


I'm running 2017 BIAB on a MacBook Pro. I use "_BG_Band" a lot and swap in "_BG_BDFS" (fiddle), "_BG_BDGS" (guitar), and "BG_BDMS" (mandolin) when I want a soloist.

Top
#438451 - 11/17/17 05:13 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?


Yes, I have experienced something similar what you describe.

Try this...

To get the Realtrack back on track, put a chord on beat 3 in the cell that you've set as 2 beats. This chord doesn't play (so it doesn't matter what it is), but it helps realign the Realtrack generation.

If you have BIAB 2017, the chord on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar will be gray to show that it is inactive. This is the beat to use.

Regards,
Noel




Sorry, but this doesn't work. I get two beats of silence, then the RealTrack musicians are two beats ahead of the actual chord change.

Top
#438453 - 11/17/17 05:27 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
If anyone is willing to try this, here's a simple experiment. Use _BG_BAND.STY as the style. Key = G; Tempo = 130; # bars = 9.

1) G
2) C
3) G
4) D
5) G
6) C
7) G D
8) G
9) G

Bar 9 is set to 2 beats using the Bar Settings feature. Everything else is standard 4 beats/bar.

When I do this, I get a pause during playback at the end of the chorus, and the instruments are out of alignment with the chords after that.

Top
#438455 - 11/17/17 05:36 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13099
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
If anyone is willing to try this, here's a simple experiment. Use _BG_BAND.STY as the style. Key = G; Tempo = 130; # bars = 9.

1) G
2) C
3) G
4) D
5) G
6) C
7) G D
8) G
9) G

Bar 9 is set to 2 beats using the Bar Settings feature. Everything else is standard 4 beats/bar.

When I do this, I get a pause during playback at the end of the chorus, and the instruments are out of alignment with the chords after that.


Thanks for this.

After setting bar 9 to 2 beats, did you set bar 10 back to 4 beats?

Also... after entering chords on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar, all tracks need to be unfrozen and the song regenerated for the chord(s) to take effect.

Lastly, I've put your above chord progression together and set bar 9 as 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats. I then added an Eb chord on beat 3 of bar 9. After generating the song, it played fine for me (BIAB 2017 build 470).

When you get a chance, can you try the chordsheet that I put together? You can download it from the link below. I'm interested in knowing if it works for you.

Test SGU file with 2/4 in bar 9

Regards,
Noel

P.S. I notice that bar 9 is the last bar of your song. Do you have multiple choruses by any chance?



_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#439300 - 11/21/17 01:17 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 777
Hi Slick Salmon,

Time signature changes when using RealTracks have been doing this in the Mac version for a while.

We don't have an immediate fix for you (sorry), but I'll check to make sure the development team is aware of the issue.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Top
#439333 - 11/21/17 03:07 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Noel96, your file works perfectly. When I do it myself as a repeating 9 bar chorus with a 2-beat measure in bar 9, the problem persists regardless of whether I set bar 1 to 4 beats or not. However, if I do the tune as a continuous 18 bar chorus, setting bar 9 to 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats, everything works perfectly. Apparently, the program gets confused when the 2 beat bar is the last measure of a chorus, but it doesn't mind if an internal bar is 2 beats. This is going to be tricky to program, since bluegrass routinely employs 2 beat measures at the end of a verse.

Top
#439345 - 11/21/17 04:03 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 777
Hi Slick Salmon,

If Noel made the test song with the Windows version, it will likely play fine on a Mac. When we tested this bug, we found that the difficulty generating RealTracks with time signature changes only came up if the song was created with the Mac version.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Top
#439400 - 11/21/17 09:25 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13099
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Noel96, your file works perfectly. When I do it myself as a repeating 9 bar chorus with a 2-beat measure in bar 9, the problem persists regardless of whether I set bar 1 to 4 beats or not. However, if I do the tune as a continuous 18 bar chorus, setting bar 9 to 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats, everything works perfectly. Apparently, the program gets confused when the 2 beat bar is the last measure of a chorus, but it doesn't mind if an internal bar is 2 beats. This is going to be tricky to program, since bluegrass routinely employs 2 beat measures at the end of a verse.



I'm glad to read it worked.

If your song is less than 255 bars long, why not set it out as a linear progression rather than using repeats or multiple choruses. That's what I always do. I like the control that it gives me to add part markers where I like.

If you want to use multple choruses, though...

.... have you tried setting (say) bars 1 to 4 as the introduction and then have the song repeat using bars 5 - 14. I've done that in the songfile that you can download from the link below. See how it goes. Since the song repeats from bar 5, I've set that to 4 beats.

Test file (2) - with intro

Regards,
Noel



_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#440187 - 11/24/17 06:48 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Noel -- I wasn't able to play your second file, because it crashed my program. I don't know why, since your first file ran just fine. Given Kent's comment, I'm becoming increasingly convinced the BIAB is not happy running on a Mac. Nonetheless, the structure you used with the four intro bars is one I use all the time, so I'm familiar with it.

As for laying out tunes as one long chorus rather than repeating choruses, I just don't know the correct approach. The program seemingly wants you to use repeating choruses and provides a wide assortment of tools (eg., jumps, sections, first/ second endings, etc) that make traditional composition possible. It certainly make printing chord sheets a lot easier. On the other hand, the way the program manages soloists makes such a layout challenging. I haven't landed on a comfortable approach.

Top
#442725 - 12/05/17 06:21 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Kent - PG Music]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: Kent - PG Music
Hi Slick Salmon,

If Noel made the test song with the Windows version, it will likely play fine on a Mac. When we tested this bug, we found that the difficulty generating RealTracks with time signature changes only came up if the song was created with the Mac version.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music


Just for clarification, Kent is correct. The fix that Noel provided initially appeared to work, but doesn't reliably do so. The Mac version of BIAB is unable to handle time signature changes with RealTracks. Frankly, without this ability, the utility of this program for me is significantly compromised. I'm going to have to switch to a PC version.

Top
#442774 - 12/05/17 09:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13099
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
As for laying out tunes as one long chorus rather than repeating choruses, I just don't know the correct approach. The program seemingly wants you to use repeating choruses and provides a wide assortment of tools (eg., jumps, sections, first/ second endings, etc) that make traditional composition possible. It certainly make printing chord sheets a lot easier. On the other hand, the way the program manages soloists makes such a layout challenging. I haven't landed on a comfortable approach.


To lay out a song a single chorus is just a matter of (a) setting the number of choruses to '1' and (b) manually adding part markers to define the various sections of a song.

Part markers are obtained by clicking on bar numbers. The first click will put a blue box around the bar number, the second click changes the box to green and the third click removes the part marker.

  • Blue part markers tell BIAB to create a backing that is simpler and with less energy. These are usually well suited to verses.

  • Green part markers tell BIAB to create a backing that has more rhythmical and performance energy. I use these for choruses.

To see these in action, simply open up one of your songs that uses multiple choruses (by 'chorus' I mean 'once through the entire song') and then go to "Edit | Song Form Unfold" and the song will be turned into a single chorus song, 'once through' format. This is linear format.

Quote:
EXAMPLE SONG

Let's say the below is the song that I want to generate.

1. Time signature: 4/4

2. Key signature; C

3. Intro: 4 bars

4. Verse 1: 8 bars

5. Chorus: 8 bars with 2 beat bar following the 8th bar (i.e. in 9th bar)

6. Verse 2: 8 bars

7. Chorus: 8 bars with 2 beat bar following the 8th bar (i.e. in 9th bar)

8. Repeat Chorus


I'd set the "number of choruses" to '1' and then layout the song as shown in the following SGU file.

link to example song

Given that my original files with the bar changes worked for you, this one should work, too. The Eb chords are on non-playing positions in the 2-beat bar. They should just help to re-align the Realtracks for the change back to 4-beats in the following bar.

Let us know how you go.

All the best,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#442814 - 12/05/17 11:43 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Thanks for sticking with this Noel, but laying out tunes as one long chorus isn't helping. I got it to work once, but haven't been successful after that. Kent is saying that it's a fundamental problem with the Mac version of BIAB, and I'm inclined to believe him. I'm working with customer support to try to transfer all my work to a PC. I'd rather work on a Mac, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't know what else to do. It's either that or abandon the program altogether.

Top
#442918 - 12/05/17 08:47 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13099
Loc: Australia
Just one very last thought...

Rather than use my file, have you tried creating your own by starting with a brand new, blank chordsheet.

To do this....

1. Select "File | New". (Don't simply delete the chords on an existing chord sheet. It's important to create a brand new, blank one.

2. Now select a style, tempo.

3. Set number of choruses to 1.

4. Add a couple of 2-beat bar mid-sheet.

5. On beat three of the 2-beat bar, put in some chord (it won't play).

6. Make the subsequent bar 4 beats.

7. Generate and play.

Does that bring any joy?

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top


Moderator:  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 
PG Music News
RealTracks Artist Quinn Bachand - Hard at Work!

Check it out - this is happening NOW... Quinn Bachand's latest RealTracks recording session!

Image: http://www.pgmusic.com/gfx/Quinn_Session.jpeg

Listen to demos of Quinn's existing RealTracks at http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=61&os=win&sortby=name

The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 PlusPAK Upgrade for Mac

Did you know....

If you are currently using a Band-in-a-Box® 2017 UltraPlusPAK or EverythingPAK and are wanting to upgrade to the new version, with the 202 new RealTracks that were just released, the PlusPAK upgrade is a great option! This is available on DVD, flash drive, or electronic delivery - simply install the content to your existing 2017 BB folder! Add the 49-PAK to your purchase, and you'll complete the RealTracks library with the 40 BONUS unreleased RealTracks!

This package is on sale for just $99 during our special (reg. $129): http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.packages.pluspak.htm.

Get to Know The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK for Mac

Purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac during our special and you will receive a Free Bonus PAK which includes Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band, 10 MIDI SuperTracks, 7 Instrumental Studies, 40 AmpliTube Presets & 37 Associated bonus Styles, and 52 Loops for Band-in-a-Box!

Take it a step further and add a 49-PAK to your purchase for only $49! Add the 49-PAK to your Band-in-a-Box® for Mac purchase and you'll receive these GREAT Band-in-a-Box Add-ons:
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band
ALL 40 UNRELEASED Bonus RealTracks
22 MIDI SuperTracks
101 Instrumental Studies
Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

Get to Know The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK: Video link - Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac- 49-PAK Overview

Band-in-a-Box® Version 2018 Pro & MegaPAK RealCombos!

We've added MORE to the RealCombos included in the Pro & MegaPAK packages with the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Pro includes 300 RealTracks instruments in over 100 bands - that's 100+ more than previous years - listen to them here.

There are now over 500 RealTracks in 300 Bands in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 MegaPAK! Take a look at all the RealTracks & RealDrums in the MegaPAK here.

To receive the new version with these new RealCombos, upgrade during our special for as little as $59! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.packages.htm.

Get ALL the Regular RealTracks & RealDrums when you upgrade to an UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition!

Title Track Day, May 23, 2018!

Did you know... today is Title Track Day!

Which album do you think of on this special day? Better yet, have you created your own album and named it after a song?

Join the converation...

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac packages during our release special (which ends May 31st!).
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac release special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=fzkX6jO_hW4

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)!

Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=7ZrfGSqjaOU

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade - on sale until May 31st!

Forum Stats
27519 Members
50 Forums
51881 Topics
428708 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
Dixiesatellite72, hhbailey, medblues, Terry V, The Captain

27519 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Icelander 357
Noel96 156
Janice & Bud 150
zedd 138
David Snyder 133
JayO 113
rsdean 107
floyd jane 105
Scott C 98
Charlie Fogle 95
Today's Birthdays
cbkslo, Liana ALEXANDRA