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#445910 - 12/18/17 03:43 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18596
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
To OP,

VST and DX plugins can be used either way; during the recording or after.

I prefer after myself, as I'm OK with setting the levels and monitoring them as I record. You do not need a hot signal, give yourself some room.

In PGMusic products it is called Input Monitoring, and is an option, but it's a bit more complicated to do as you record.
I would definitely try it after to start with.

In Realband there a button on the track in some views called FX, just put what you want in there.
In BiaB I think it works kind of the same way but you'll find it in the mixer area.

Also, in addition to PGDynamcs compressor there are many free ones available and many you can buy.

ReaComp (from Reaper/Cockos) is an easy one to learn on, as is Classic Compressor, which I happen to like for vocals. Both are free.
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#445918 - 12/18/17 03:57 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3333
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (509) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 4)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#445935 - 12/18/17 05:00 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Jim Fogle]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4510
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.




"Is it possible to use a compressor in BIAB for recording the voice track?. Sometimes the singer wears the vu-meter in the red zone while singing."



Or, he might just learn to set gain stages properly. It's really that simple. grin


Regards,


Bob
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#445937 - 12/18/17 05:09 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3333
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.




"Is it possible to use a compressor in BIAB for recording the voice track?. Sometimes the singer wears the vu-meter in the red zone while singing."



Or, he might just learn to set gain stages properly. It's really that simple. grin


Regards,


Bob


Definitely agree there's a learning opportunity. I figure that's why the op asked the question.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (509) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 4)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#446448 - 12/20/17 08:40 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Tobias Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1549
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
I don't know if it's possible to compress on the way in using BIAB. But, if you have to use a high compression ratio, say, 4:1 and higher to control the singer it is going to start sounding squashed and unnatural. A low ratio, 2:1 or so will probably not mess up the take but is not likely to tame the input VU meter enough either.
If it were me, I would have the singer review some microphone techniques and practice with the microphone and headphones. Then redo the take/s. He'she may even appreciate the improvements he/she makes as a singer.
Also, it's okay to record with quite low input levels. Just so long as the noise in the room is also very low.
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#449433 - 01/06/18 04:14 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Bob Calver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 244
Loc: UK
Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up. Trouble is you can't undo it. using input controls to stop meters going into the red allows you to maximise the volume without clipping. I was always taught that the closer to the origin the highest possible setting makes for best signal to noise ratio, that is if you are using a usb interface or preamp (the first stage after the mic)you turn up as loud as possible without clipping and then in the DAW turn up the input volume to maximum without clipping so you maximise signal to noise. its logical if you think about it.

if you have a low signal going in and then boost it at the DAW stage you're turning up any noise as well as the signal.

as far as standing further away from the mic, some mics actually have a presence effect - for example close to a Shure SM58 boosts bass and many vocalists actually use the effect to enhance their vocals - simply swaying away for the loud bits (watch Tony Christie live doing Is this the way to Amarilllo!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69xk1aBEL_E

compressing a recorded track gives you greater flexibility although I do know with outboard effects some professionals do put a little compression on the input


Edited by Bob Calver (01/06/18 04:16 AM)

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#449636 - 01/06/18 09:03 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Bob Calver]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4120
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up. Trouble is you can't undo it. using input controls to stop meters going into the red allows you to maximise the volume without clipping. I was always taught that the closer to the origin the highest possible setting makes for best signal to noise ratio, that is if you are using a usb interface or preamp (the first stage after the mic)you turn up as loud as possible without clipping and then in the DAW turn up the input volume to maximum without clipping so you maximise signal to noise. its logical if you think about it.

if you have a low signal going in and then boost it at the DAW stage you're turning up any noise as well as the signal.

as far as standing further away from the mic, some mics actually have a presence effect - for example close to a Shure SM58 boosts bass and many vocalists actually use the effect to enhance their vocals - simply swaying away for the loud bits (watch Tony Christie live doing Is this the way to Amarilllo!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69xk1aBEL_E

compressing a recorded track gives you greater flexibility although I do know with outboard effects some professionals do put a little compression on the input


Hi Bob, I don't understand what you mean by "Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up." or "trouble is you can't undo it." Maybe you can expand on your set up and the effect on the compressor in your setup. I normally think of vocal compression as an effect and independent of the signal chain. For instance, a signal chain is still complete and carries the audio signal regardless if a compressor resides in the signal chain or not.

You control clipping either analog or digital clipping through proper gain staging (see 90db's comment above). Analog and digital clipping are different and the proper gain staging is different between the two. Gain staging is different between recording and live broadcasting. A separate mix is set up to properly record a live show that has different settings for gain, eq and dynamics for the recording feed from the FOH or stage monitor feeds. The highest volume without clipping is not the proper gain stage for a digital recording. The noise floor for digital is much lower than the noise floor for an analog signal. Thus there is much more available headroom in a digital recording and the signal is normally 6-12db lower and more care must be taken to not have digital clipping. Because of the signal/noise ratio of the digital path, there is a lot of flexibility to work with lower input signals.

What you are calling a presence effect is actually called a proximity effect, an increase in the low frequency response when speaking closely into a microphone. Again, there is a difference in the desirability and benefits between live broadcasting and studio recording. Many singers employ the effect live but it is rarely desirable and more often avoided in studio recording. It is actually a poor recording technique for studio recordings because normally the changes in tone between close mic and the singer turning away or moving back from the microphone has to be 'fixed' in post processing. It is better to have less of these tonal and dynamic changes because it will take a lot more processing and time to correct. Live broadcasting is a lot more forgiving environment.

Note that your example of Tony Christie is a live recording visually but the liner notes to the YouTube posting indicate the audio has been overdubbed with a studio recording from a CD and synced to the video and is not a true representation of how that audio actually sounded nor did it reflect what the sound engineer may have been required to do on the mixing board to compensate for Mr. Christie's mic techniques.

A common way studios, both home, semi pro and pro increase the quality of their recording chain is to use a Channel Strip. A channel strip will have a high quality or boutique preamp, a compressor and an EQ. Using a channel strip along with a quality mic can make recording into consumer grade interfaces and digital recorders like the Zoom models, Tascam DP series recorders and similar models record high quality, professional grade audio.
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#451035 - 01/14/18 03:48 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Bob Calver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 244
Loc: UK
I learnt a lot of my mixing from my days as a TV producer recording music for jingles or backing tracks for films.

With a professional desk you can compress the vocal signal before it hits the tape (as it was in my day) or the digital recording.

But once you've recorded a compressed signal that's what you've got. You can't uncompress it.

Whether you can compress an incoming signal before it hits the DAW I'm not sure and it will vary from set up to set up.

Some valve/tube preamps automatically compress the signal anyway and I occasionally use one before inputting an analogue signal for recording as opposed to a digital signal vis USB.

As to mic technique and the proximity effect I've found the booklet that came with my SM58 stage mic and it definitely says closeness boosts bass frequencies - and that would be lost if you reduce gain by standing further from the mic.

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#451037 - 01/14/18 04:05 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Bob Calver]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4120
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
I learnt a lot of my mixing from my days as a TV producer recording music for jingles or backing tracks for films.

With a professional desk you can compress the vocal signal before it hits the tape (as it was in my day) or the digital recording. Charlie : I agree. I have a Presonus Eureka Channel Strip that I can send the line out to my Audio Interface when I input my signal or I can use an Aux Send and use it as a post effect.

But once you've recorded a compressed signal that's what you've got. You can't uncompress it.

Charlie : I agree. But the same can be said for the lead guitarist that mic's his amp and records all of his pedal effects and tone. There's nothing wrong with recording the input with effects or dynamic processing as long as the tone and effects are what is desired.

Whether you can compress an incoming signal before it hits the DAW I'm not sure and it will vary from set up to set up. Charlie : You can record across input signal as a channel insert. It can be hardware or software.

Some valve/tube preamps automatically compress the signal anyway and I occasionally use one before inputting an analogue signal for recording as opposed to a digital signal vis USB.

As to mic technique and the proximity effect I've found the booklet that came with my SM58 stage mic and it definitely says closeness boosts bass frequencies - and that would be lost if you reduce gain by standing further from the mic. Charlie : I agree. We are talking about the same thing and it may just be a colloquial difference.

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#451916 - 01/17/18 11:28 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Ellisonling Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/17/18
Posts: 1
From all post under your question list, I guess you already know the answer of your issue. So here, let's me to share my experience of recording audio tracks from videos. As for recording audio from video and any vocal audio, the one I use is TunesKit Audio Capture, which can support multi-track audio grabbing. And it’s can keep or edit all original ID3 tags. Also it can save and record the recorded audios as MP3, AAC and other popular audio formats. If you would like to cut the unwanted segment and get a fascinating audio track, this audio recording software can do this well.
Hope this post can help you to solve you question freely.

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