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#455729 - 02/05/18 07:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy?
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 240
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
I could not get a remotely decent sound out from the audio harmonies. I recorded this example using BiaB 2018 and the tutorial (also issued in 2018) with its accompanying sound file. The harmony I generated sounds muddled, static-y, and grainy relative to the one it should sound like based on the tut's wav.

https://soundcloud.com/user-423212678/4-part-vocal-harmony

I cut back and forth from what it's supposed to sound like with snippets of what my output was. Please note the terrible screech (kinda like a dial-up modem) that swells in preceding my generated harmony.

Thanks in advance!
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#455733 - 02/05/18 07:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
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I'm hearing distortion, especially on the last segment. Can you post a recording of just the harmony?
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#455735 - 02/05/18 07:46 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: Matt Finley]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 240
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
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#455744 - 02/05/18 08:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17411
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Much more helpful, thanks.

I'm hearing distortion.

But I'm also hearing a flanging type sound and I think that's what you find objectionable in the spaces. I've heard that when the original is mixed back into a copy of the sound after some processing. I've also heard that from a chorus effect, when the timing and/or pitch is displaced. Is it possible you are doing anything like that?
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#455749 - 02/05/18 08:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: Matt Finley]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 240
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Thanks Matt, but I don't think that's the case :-(

I used the tutorial's pre-prepared .MGU under X:\bb\Documentation\Tutorials\Tutorial - Audio Harmonies, without touching anything else.
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#455754 - 02/05/18 08:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17411
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Ok then. Time to give PG Music Support a shout if no one else knows.
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#455756 - 02/05/18 08:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: Matt Finley]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 240
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
What's the best way to contact them? The shout box? Email?

The last email I sent was responded to three weeks later with a request for clarification, which I promptly replied to, and then I haven't heard from them since (it was a couple months ago).

Thanks again, Matt!
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#455757 - 02/05/18 08:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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They have an email address and telephone numbers on the PG Music Contact page
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#455761 - 02/05/18 09:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: VideoTrack]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 240
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Thanks VT,

Follow-up Q:

What's the deal with the Shout Box, what with the forums and BiaB support? Most the replies I see there are directing folks back to the forums...
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#455765 - 02/05/18 09:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
jford Online   content
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10539
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
There are level settings within the audio harmonies. Perhaps set some of them lower and see if you can get better, non-distorted results.

Also, the TC-helicon audio harmonies feature was introduced back in 2004, updated in 2005, and as far as I can tell hasn't been touched since. So, it really is 13 year technology.

I have used it successfully a few times. I have not had great luck using the MIDI tracking features without artifacts, and so generally stick with the chordal harmonies (still some artifacts, but they can usually be pushed back in the mix).

I have found that if you want the best harmonies, you need to sing the song straight and clean (no no vibrato and pretty well in tune. That gives the harmonizer the best source to work with and makes it easier to determine your base pitch with which to harmonize. I've also had best luck with the "down" harmonies rather than "up". The "up" harmonies tend to be more chipmunky. I usually select 1-up, 2 down when I do them. So with the lead, that gives you 4 parts. Not saying it's perfect and it really depends upon the song, but I have had some nice generated harmonies in the past.

And then in the mix, you need to keep the lead vocal out front, or you will definitely hear both a pitch shift effect and chipmunkiness (if that's a word).

Also, I could be wrong (PGMusic would have to answer), but I don't believe the harmonizer was ever updated to use the elastique pitch stretching capability that it uses for RealTracks.

I'm not sure why it's so distorted using the "Listen" file (which clearly isn't your recording). I've played with it before and have gotten mostly clean results. If I have a chance, I'll run it through in 2018 this evening after work and post back.
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#455776 - 02/05/18 09:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17411
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
The Shout Box is OK for saying Hello, but you can't put the level of detail usually needed, and you can't attach links and attachments. Comments become separated, so you can't get the whole picture.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#455786 - 02/05/18 11:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: Matt Finley]
fiddler2007 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 784
I never got decent harmonies out of the BIAB's plugin. TC's voicelive is quite a bit better, recently used the rack version for an el-cheapo production, and did not get any complaints sofar. It's a standalone hardware box however, and you'll need trickery to route it for use within BIAB; thus i used it with Cubase only. F

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#455896 - 02/05/18 08:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: fiddler2007]
cxp Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 27
I have used the harmony feature several times in different ways. While it is not state-of-the-art by any means it can be useful. I've even used it to harmonize certain realtracks.
I originally tested it for use with generating harmonies for a vocal track using a midi melody as a reference. This track is the result. It was finished in Power Tracks using chorus and delay to mask the generated artifacts:

https://soundcloud.com/cxp-2/johnny-angel

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#456489 - 02/08/18 12:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Why does this harmony file sound so awful and glitchy? [Re: cxp]
fiddler2007 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 784
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09
I could not get a remotely decent sound out from the audio harmonies. I recorded this example using BiaB 2018 and the tutorial (also issued in 2018) with its accompanying sound file. The harmony I generated sounds muddled, static-y, and grainy relative to the one it should sound like based on the tut's wav. ....
Sounds funny sort of though ... music from mars .. F

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