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#460207 - 03/03/18 12:12 PM [Off-Topic] Speaking of red-headed stepchildren…
Ryszard Offline
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Seems like it is fashionable to hate certain segments of the music business. Right now Behringer, a manufacturer of economical music electronics, is the target of much venom. (In the 70s and 80s it was Peavey.)

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.” (Come to think of it, I have gotten that here about Master Writer, a songwriting aid.)

Why have people got to be like that?

Okay, my bourbon-fueled philosophical musing is at an end… cool

Richard
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#460210 - 03/03/18 12:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ryszard

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.”

Maybe for some. But, the band always turns up on time. The drummer keeps tempo nicely and never plays over the top of the others. He also uses brushes when he's supposed to and only changes over the sticks when you actually want him to. And the bass player is never too loud and never loses his place on the chart while he's too busy checking for pretty talent on the audience. Is it cheating to get that? Nah.
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#460234 - 03/03/18 01:58 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
ZUrlocker Offline
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In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history. I'm not saying that reputation is deserved today, but it's something they occasionally have to overcome. And I think there's also a view among synth players (like guitar players) that the original designs from the early period (think 50's designs, 60s guitars from Fender, Gibson) are the only way to do things and anyone who tries to do something modern or derivative is misguided or worse.

Reminds me of Monty Python's "4 yorkshiremen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE
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#460246 - 03/03/18 02:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Offline
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I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?
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#460249 - 03/03/18 02:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?



I have a Behringer Eurorack mixer and a headphone amplified hub that I have had for a number of years now and both work perfectly.

Ah lets not mention newer Gibson's ultra expensive and poorly made guitars.
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The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#460250 - 03/03/18 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
90 dB Offline
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"In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history."


No, their reputation was earned by ripping off other people's designs.




"In June 1997, Mackie accused Behringer of trademark and trade dress infringement, and brought suit seeking $327M in damages[14][18] but such claims were later rejected by the court. In their suit, Mackie said that Behringer had a history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.[19] The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]

In 2005, Roland Corporation sued to enforce Roland's trade dress, trademark, and other intellectual property rights with regard to Behringer's recently released guitar pedals.[23] The two companies came to a confidential settlement in 2006 after Behringer changed their designs.[24]"



Regards,


Bob




Edited by 90 dB (03/03/18 02:34 PM)
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#460265 - 03/03/18 05:25 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: 90 dB]
Ryszard Offline
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Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.
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"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#460267 - 03/03/18 05:36 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
90 dB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ryszard
Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.





"The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]"



That speaks to the degree of dislike in the Pro Sound community. Don't believe me. Go ask Greg Mackie. grin



Regards,


Bob
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#460272 - 03/03/18 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Offline
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I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.
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#460320 - 03/04/18 03:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.


I agree. I worked with a band and now a Church that had X32's as well as owned a Behringer X32 digital mixer and it is an awesome mixer and worked flawlessly.
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#460343 - 03/04/18 05:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Notes Norton Offline
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I've never owned a Behringer product, but a friend of mine has one. He plays at the same place that we do once a week, he has a mixer and powered speaeker. I've got to hear him, and haven't noticed any problems from the audience location, and I've never heard him complain about it.

I remember when musicians all dissed Peavey the same way. I've had some Peavey gear and I think it was all worth the money I spent for it.

Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#460358 - 03/04/18 06:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Notes Norton]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10981
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
.....................
Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes


Although I use auto-tune I agree with you. I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV
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The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#460379 - 03/04/18 08:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: MarioD]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6490
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob
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#460384 - 03/04/18 09:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10981
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob


Since I don't keep up with rap/hip-hop I didn't know that. Thanx for setting the records straight.
_________________________
The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#460899 - 03/06/18 03:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
HearToLearn Offline
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Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1451
Loc: -
I liken it to just about anything that has done well. All of the companies mentioned seemed to get their worst reputation when they were REALLY growing.

Just like Nickelback, Britney Spears, McDonalds, Walmart. There seems to be a lot of haters...yet they are selling millions and billions anyway. Even Amway. I had to look it up...8 almost 9 billion last year. REALLY? Wow! They don't care that I didn't buy anything from them. They are too busy succeeding without me! lol

Rock on Behringer!
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PG Music News
Video - Making A Song in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Ever wonder how to create a song in Band-in-a-Box®? We start off with the basics in our latest video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018!

Windows users: click here | Mac users: click here

RealTracks Patch Update for Windows Users

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest RealTracks update patch (519) here.

This patch includes some RealTracks audio updates we have made since the release of Band-in-a-Box 2018. 2018 users should be sure to download the latest Band-in-a-Box 2018 update patch (519), as that patch includes the bulk of the fixes for RealTracks released with 2018. This is a larger download than typical because it updates the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks audio files. There is more information and Audiophile patches available here.

Summary of RealTracks Audio updates:
Improved: There were small issues with the tuning of several Bass styles. This has been fixed for both the original mix and the direct input mix. This affects the following RealTracks:
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow16thsByron Ev16 060
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow128Byron Sw 040
- Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySwingByron Sw 190
- Bass, Acoustic, BluesyPopByron Ev 100
Improved: Audio glitches have been removed from the ends of phrases in the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest (free) update patch (519) here.

Summary of changes:
Added: Additional dialog available for detailed information in the StyleMaker (fields for memo, examples, and other parameters). These are set in the StyleMaker (more dialog, a button called "Style Memos etc").
Added: Help Video button Added to the Audio Harmony dialog.
Improved: ABC opening improvements with some accidentals, and leadin bars that occur in middle of song.
Improved: Audio harmonies now used Improved algorithms, and can be easily set using N voices above, M voices below (and have additional functions like duplicate melody, and dup. melody octave below).
Improved: Lyrics will be now read from .mid files that used to be karaoke files (.kar) and got renamed somewhere along the line.
Improved: Support for RealTracks that should be transposed only lower (ie heavy metal guitars) and for future Improved metal guitar comping.
Improved: The Audio Harmony Dialog has been rearranged to be more intuitive when using Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: Audio harmonies might be missing some notes.
Fixed: Audio harmonies would be generated with the wrong notes if selecting a range of audio in the middle of the track.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash on bootup with error "Read Beyond end of file".
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box should show message if the latest VJT application is not installed when the user tries to render videos.
Fixed: File > Open Special > Open Audio was importing audio instead of opening it in a new song.
Fixed: In the Bar Settings window, "Chordsheet and Notation - Start a New Line" should say "Notation - Start a New Line".
Fixed: It was not possible to record audio using WAS audio drivers if "Output always on" was disabled.
Fixed: Misc. RealTracks updates.
Fixed: Quicklist drums picker sometimes showing too many drums in the list.
Fixed: Redundant flash messages were showing.
Fixed: Removing a custom drums from a track would still display Drums as the name of the loop in the track.
Fixed: Rendering audio while there is a region of bars highlighted in the chord sheet might cause a crash.
Fixed: Saving a MIDI file would fail unless saving as type 1.
Fixed: Some 12-key RealTracks were incorrectly set to allow transposition.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog needed some hints.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog was missing the new Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: The VJT application should print out its version number in log files.

Tutorials - How to Install Your Band-in-a-Box® for Mac Hard Drive

When you have your Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac UltraPAK shipped to you on a portable hard drive, there are a few different options for installation. We go over these 3 options with our latest video series:

Option 1: Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to view.

Option 2: Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks & RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to view.

Option 3: Install Band-in-a-Box® and the RealTracks & RealDrums on your computer hard drive: click here to view.

Check out all our Band-in-a-Box for Mac videos here.

Video - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets for Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

Have you purchased your Band-in-a-Box® package, and want to make sure you're downloading and installing the RealTracks Sets correctly?

Well, we've created just the tutorial video you're looking for! Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets.

Video link:
www.pgmusic.com/?vid=QndXu8H_IwM

Thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 - Mac Power Users Discussion

David Sparks and Katie Floyd discuss a variety of topics in their recent episide of Mac Power Users: https://www.relay.fm/mpu/432 - listen all the way through (and laugh along with them - it was a very entertaining episode!), or jump to 1:37:40 where David shares his thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac!

Thank you David and Katie!

Polish New Features Video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Our Polish Distributor, Sound Station, has finished their Band-in-a-Box 2018 New Features summary video (in Polish!) - click here to watch.

We hope all our Polish Band-in-a-Box users find this video helpful - thank you Sound Station!

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