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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I recently acquired a Scarlett 6i6 (after a long list of various interfaces, both USB and analog.) The Control software is relatively complex (to me at least.. not as much as the M-Audio, but the flexibility of routing options is daunting.)
What I am trying to accomplish is this.. I have a beloved external MIDI module (Ketron SD1000) which I would LIKE to use in conjunction with Real Tracks (or even some of the great Super MIDI tracks.) I eventually figured out how to setup the Focusrite Control to route the analog input of the SD1000 so I can hear it through the monitor headphones, or even output through my stereo amp.
Where I am getting stumped is being able to RECORD the mix to a .WAV file on my PC. Exacerbating the issue is the plethora of Sound devices I have available.
My motherboard (graphics card) includes Nvidia HDMI outs, as well as a Sound Blaster Recon 3Di (which offers me a "What U Hear" input and SPDIF output in BIAB Audi Settings.)
I also have the option of the Focusrite USB (input and output) where the choice of ports is handed over to the Focusrite ) which has 1/2 and 3/4 analog as well as SPDIF in and SPDIF out.
Once upon a time I used to use a program called iRecord (which still operates) to record "What You Hear." Currently I am able to get that to record the MIDI from the SD1000 OR the Real Tracks but never BOTH mixed (which I can hear on the monitor or stereo.)
I also have Audacity which I used to be able to use (once upon a time) with its Loopback feature, to record a mix of RealTracks and MIDI. I can no longer get THAT to work.
My machine is pretty fast, and I have no issues with latency using MME (I try to keep it simple.) Any attempts at WAS give me the dreaded -9998 error.
Anyone have experience with a combo like this? All suggestions appreciated.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi
Well it seems to me in general terms that:
Once you have sent your midi out to an external midi module like your Ketron
And found a way of hearing it
Any of the sources that you can hear on whatever device, are the ones you need to find as inputs on your recording device say, Audacity under the input tab pull down where the mic is in the tool bar.
Or indeed any other wave recorder you may use
You may need a Y adapter if hard wiring the audio to the recording device and you still want to use the head phone at source to monitor.
But normally you can move your headphones on and monitor the recording devices input or output instead once you get the sound coming in,
Try to construct a simple in line chain like this, and try not to get involved in looping things back to the same device.
Mike
Later edit
If you want to involve the Scarlet on the way to add bits and bobs. then send the Ketron’s audio to the Scarlet line inputs and then choose the Scarlet to monitor, and use its output to your wave recorders input.
Last edited by Mike Head; 10/07/18 04:55 AM.
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I use Adobe Audition and record the mix in real time.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I guess I should have been more specific in my request. Does anyone here have specific experience with Focusrite Control program who has successfully used a Scarlett as a mixer to record Real Tracks, and audio from multiple Scarlett inputs (specifically 1 - XLR mike in and 3-4 (line in from an external MIDI module?)
There are really three sets of variables... The Windows Control Panel Sound options, the BIAB audio options and the I/O options of the recording program (preferably Audacity.) Audacity does not give me the choices of the outputs I can hear as recording devices.)
Thanks
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Had a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 for about a year. Found the Mic inputs quite OK, but the software interface a little unpractical and complicated, so i sold it after a while because of that mainly. Although it worked fine, and after sales services and helpdesk from Focusrite was very good. F.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I understand. I have three Focusrite Scarlett units. Not only is the software complicated, but there is a considerable difference between the first and second generation units and the software is not interchangeable. You didn’t say which you have.
I mix all inputs in the Scarlett then record the stereo out in real time.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Audacity won't be able to see all of the Focusrite's I/O in a Windows environment due to the limits in Windows audio drivers. The only way to be able to make use of all I/O is to use the Focusrite supplied ASIO drivers which bypass the OS completely. However, as you have found, Audacity isn't licensed to use ASIO drivers, although I believe that there are ways of making them work. So for Audacity and other Windows A/V apps you are stuck with basic stereo I/O. WASAPI drivers may allow up to eight channels of I/O.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I finally got it working as I wanted.. I ran the line out of my Scarlett with a Y cable to the line in on my motherboard Sound Blaster. Set the SPDIF out of the Sound Blaster as default Windows playback, and the Focusrite USB as default record device. This is the only way I could record MIDI with no latency. I used the iSound app instead of Audacity with the Playback set to SB SPDIF and and Record device as the Recording Device and SPDIF out as the recording Source.
I pretty much randomly clicked on stuff in the Focusrite Control, because I still don't have a CLUE as to what all THAT crap does. When I heard a mix come out of my Scarlett Monitor phones, I hit record and when I played back the .WAV I had a mix. I just saved and screen shot all the settings. This has been a bit of a nightmare. I think I'll wait until tomorrow to add the XLR mike in to the Scarlett mix. Thanks for the suggestions.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For anyone interested, the i-Sound Recorder is about $30 US and has always come through for me when other recorders have failed... https://www.abyssmedia.com/products.shtml
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Why not consider an Mixer? Input all your sources to the mixer and send a stereo mix to your Computer. The stereo mix can go to any DAW, or Audacity. The mixer can be Analog, Digital, a hybrid and be with/without a USB output interface. Any of them will work.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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An analog mixer will introduce noise. A digital mixer could work.
But the real problem here is that the Focusrite Scarlett software IS a mixer; it's just very complex to learn.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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An analog mixer will introduce noise. A digital mixer could work.
But the real problem here is that the Focusrite Scarlett software IS a mixer; it's just very complex to learn.
Hi Matt. The mixer suggestion was suggested to simplify both physical routing as well as avoiding the complexities of the Scarlett software mixer. It's a moot point now that PhillyJazz has his system working but I'm not clearly understanding your distinction between noise of an analog mixer and digital mixer. Both will inherently introduce noise and that will be determined by the quality of the mixer preamps as well as what point in the signal path after the preamp the audio is tapped for the ADC. I'm thinking most mixer line level outputs will be on par with the line out of PhillyJazz's Ketron SD1000 or audio out of his keyboard. Just curious.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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At this point, I AM using the Scarlett as a mixer. It's just the actual recording device (Sound Blaster Line In) that is an analog line-in. I do not hear any "noise" per se that I would consider a deal-killer. An audiophile may argue, but it serves my purposes.
MY real issue stems from not really knowing where the Realtracks "live" in the mix. I have no problem recording THEM without the Sound Blaster, but the current configuration is the only one that lets me record MIDI along with the RealTracks (with near zero latency.)
The monitoring on the Scarlett is great when I use a woodwind controller to record MIDI tracks along the the RealTracks. I just tested it using the BIAB "record audio" function, and my XLR Input 1 is live. I can monitor the background and MIDI as I record an audio track, so all is good. It's been years chasing this particular setup. What a relief !
And I was also just able to get Audacity to record using the line-in of the SB and the Scarlett as the playback !!!
Last edited by PhillyJazz; 10/10/18 03:09 AM.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi PhillyJazz. Yes, I'm glad you've worked out your issue so there's no need for you to consider a mixer in your situation but I was curious for Matt give some feedback about the noise issue from a mixer a bit more. The Scarlett mixer is ideal in your particular setup.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I have only used stand-alone mixers on the line-level output side for years (decades?) because using them on the input introduces more noise. I’m referring mostly to microphone low-level signals. It’s very bothersome to me to have any additional input noise.
The Scarlett mixer software is powerful but admittedly difficult to master no matter how many tutorial videos you watch. Is yours a new one (what they call 2nd Generation)? I actually found the software rewrite to be more difficult than the original (which was a big letdown).
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Yeah.. This is the Gen2. I had a 2i4 awhile back, but the USB connector broke, and it is a sealed unit. Out of warranty, or I could have fixed it with a soldering gun and a couple of bucks.
Had not intended to get another one, but this now has a SPDIF out so easily replaced my Kontakt Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 (very simple, but the input levels were just too low for my mike placement when I shot desktop videos.)
Last edited by PhillyJazz; 10/10/18 04:15 AM.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sounds good. The 6i6 has the same mixer software as my 18i20 (2).
I have an older 18i20 (1) on my backup machine, and an older 6i6 (1) on my Mac. The units have all been very robust, though I don’t move them like someone with a 200-series might.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Thanks for your reply Matt. I was just curious to your workflow. I agree that with a Scarlett, the native preamps are more than adequate for superior recording results and there's no need for exterior preamps (that will add some amount of noise).
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Once you get up to the 6i6 external power is needed anyway.. Most of the mixers I'd used had USB power.. I do need phantom for my condenser mikes, though..
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It’s not in front of me but I thought the 6i6 had a switch for phantom power. The 18i20s certainly do, in banks.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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