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Charlie...
You could of said it in single line, a quote from your post:
"BIAB doesn't seem fitted to be a mixing seminar forum for me"
I feel that you probably did not understand the concept that I proposed.
I proposed a thread where people who want help would ask for it, based on specific audio.
(Mixing or non mixing issues)
If I am filling the tune with some 70%-80% content from BIAB, I think I can ask people who are familiar with that content. People who mixed with that content!
Thanks.
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<<< You could of said it in single line....
I feel that you probably did not understand the concept that I proposed. >>>
I understand your concept and your comment. I have graciously removed my wordy comment.....
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Tangmo,
Thank you for detailed post! As you mentioned referencing audio....
I am lucky owner of Neutron 2. I picked it up at very reasonable price because I wanted couple of plugins within main VST, but never went beyond of what I was comfortable with.
Janice & Bud suggested yesterday very similar approach to what you are describing. This morning I located the "extra" plugin within the Neutron suite, which is magical. It is called "Tonal control" It analyzes reference track and shows your frequencies and how they stack up against targeted "feel". Then it lets you tweak EQ for individual channels in single VST window. I am overwhelmed with fantastic response that people gave. Most importantly, views shared many similarities which focused on couple of items that I should take more seriously when mixing.
Thank you!
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I proposed a thread where people who want help would ask for it, based on specific audio. (Mixing or non mixing issues) There are multiple paid and free web sites that offer exactly what you are proposing. One of the websites, +++ Mix Challenge +++ accepts audio files for use in the contests. +++ Modern Mixing +++ offers prizes for winning mixes. Another forum I'm a member of has a section VERY similar to what you're requesting. The Cakewalk forum "Song" section is very well known for the critiques members provide. +++ HERE +++ is a sample thread. In my mind, the public face of the forum is more about encouraging others and praising effort than it is about critiques. I do know that many members private message other members with ideas and analysis "off the record". But even then the messages are gentle and offered only after each member feels a personal connection is established.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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The EQ massage...on my mixes I need a combination of skilled chiropractor and a strong handed Thai massage therapist to gain flexibility.
BOLD: chuckle....I think we've all been there when our amount of tracks becomes sonically unwieldy and listening to the song ad nauseum isn't helping matters. For the record: my comment was only that I never mix on phones. Not to infer that others should not. There are different approaches to arrive at the same quality result. We all have developed our own way to proceed when we are at the 'mix' stage and it's not for me to lecture others how they should proceed. I'll only comment and others can assess if it works for them. When I begin the 'mix' process my first few mixes I always monitor at very low volume.Not moderate volume or loud volume....very low volume through my 32 year old pair of Tascam S1010M's. (powered, with 3 inch speakers) If I were in a different room than your child my mixing volume would not be bothersome at all. That's the first rule I employ when I approach the 'mix' process. I have other personal 'rules' I adhere to also. Just wanted to clarify those points. That "Thai massage" path is sounding pretty appealing to me.  Back to topic.....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 10/21/18 07:06 AM.
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Jim, Sorry to say, but I do not see the reason behind your post.
BIAB is a composing/arranger software, Realband is kind of DAW.
People record music/ discuss all aspects of music making. Here is the forum, where people share ideas and techniques. I do not see anything wrong with me asking or requesting something that I do not believe is out of line with PG forum.
My point is, you can discuss music until smokes comes out from computer keyboard, but unless you hear it, all of that would be just typed words.
In my opinion, it is very logical to have thread on music creating forum that deals specifically with specific audio and that has those audio samples. Especially when BIAB is used to make these!
But hey, it is me. I suggested a thought, that's all.
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Yes, the tonal balance control that comes with Neutron 2 is great! I use that here all the time. I set the target to “modern” and enable the fine display mode. Then you can left click (I think, I’m not on my music computer) with your mouse, zoom right over the problem areas and you can hear exactly where the problem is.
I have also loaded a target song into the tonal balance control from time to time if I want to emulate a specific mix.
I saw your request for details on how I mixed the vocals in my latest song and I’m more than happy to share that. I’ll do that either later on this afternoon or on Monday.
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chulaivet1966,
Yep, I try to do it sometimes sitting 20 inches from monitors, which I believe are also 3" and listen mix on low volume.
I used to listen to mixes on AKG 240s, the vintage ones until few years ago drivers gave up completely. Went through couple of other brands, but was disappointed. Finally found a good set of open back AKG, that sound neutral and feel good on ears.
My goal is not to record full fledged songs, I like..hmmm how to put it right, more improvisation style things. Just to get idea out of the head. I rarely spend more than couple of days on song. Just want those mixes to sound acceptable to ear so I can come back to them at some point in my life when I have more time.
P.S. I liked your Time Travellin tune. Very positive!
Thanks,
Mike.
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Dave, Thank you!
Take your time. There is no rush.
As I mentioned, I am interested to know how vocal is routed. I really like it. It is upfront, not over saturated and yet warm, clear and most importantly (for me) not "overproduced", has a lot of life in it.
Thank you,
Mike.
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My goal is not to record full fledged songs, I like..hmmm how to put it right, more improvisation style things. Just to get idea out of the head. I rarely spend more than couple of days on song. Just want those mixes to sound acceptable to ear so I can come back to them at some point in my life when I have more time. I've had my AKG240DF's since the Pleistocene Epoch.....light on the head, clear sounding and I still think they're great. I approve of your mixing at low volume. Hmmmm.... If you're not actually doing 'full fledged songs' and writing 'more improvisation style things' that allows you far more subjective decision making on the final mix as mixing an actual song does have some default approaches and expectations by many that may comment....me included. Sounds like you're more into esoteric/interpretive/sound track pieces. Hopefully you got some sound advice to use in this thread. (Sidebar: it's very kind of you to give a listen and comment favorably on Time Traveling. I actually like the song myself and it took a few weeks to flesh out the lyrics/story line/imagery to my satisfaction. The time traveling concept has always been fascinating to a science geek like myself....so, I had write about it. Can't believe it was 26 years ago! thx again)
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 10/21/18 02:18 PM.
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Dave, Thank you!
Take your time. There is no rush.
As I mentioned, I am interested to know how vocal is routed. I really like it. It is upfront, not over saturated and yet warm, clear and most importantly (for me) not "overproduced", has a lot of life in it.
Thank you,
Mike.
Mike, ok I have the project file for In the Still of the night open. In the past I have used some quite complicated effects chains for vocals, always experimenting, but this one is quite simple. No hardware, all software. 1) Neutron 2. I get the initial setup by running it's track assist function, that is great for finding the interesting EQ nodes and setting the initial parameters for the compressor. Similar to the tonal balance control you can press ALT left mouse button and zoom over those nodes it has identified and hear exactly what is happening there and tweak if needed. For this mix I am only using the EQ portion and the first compressor, I disabled the other modules. 2) Waves De-Esser 3) Waves Vocal Rider. This is a great little plugin that saves lots of time drawing in volume automation to keep the levels more constant. Depending on the track sometimes it is all you need, and I see that on this track I didn't do any manual volume automation. That's pretty much it! Also I have two sends coming from this track, one is going to a dedicated reverb track, the other to a delay track. Reverb is set to 100% wet, and I adjust the volume of that track until I get the amount of reverb I want. I prefer having the reverb on a separate track because I find it's easier to control that way. The delay track is using a stereo delay (the one that came with reaper) with two different delay times. The one panned left is set to 100ms, the one panned right is set to 150ms. Subtle but effective. Hope this helps a little!
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Dave, nice! Thank you! I had a feeling that you used Vocal Rider. I had it on previous computer, but could not re-activate on new one. Have to call them today. If I remember correctly, the beauty of this plugin is that it just rides the volume slider, without cutting dynamics. Looks like our setup for vocal is very alike. I have Neutron 2 + Nectar that I use. I am glad you mentioned use of ALT in Neutron. I was mousing and clicking all over yesterday trying to figure out how to do that Final question about Neutron please. I know it has to be on Master bus... As I understand, you can hear(see) the whole mix tonal balance, but you can change EQ from the plugin only if you have an instance of Neutron in FX on the specific track. The reason why I am asking is that I also have Nectar VST (Also Izotope) that I use on vocals and just do not want to "over" EQ the track. So the question is, if I use Neutron EQ in tonal control, I should bypass Nectar EQ? Thank you, Mike
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Hi Mike,
Yes, vocal rider just rides the volume of the track, adjusting up or down as needed, that's the beauty of it.
I have Nectar here too, it's a nice one to have. In my example above the reverb I'm using on the reverb track is actually the reverb from Nectar (with all the other modules disabled). It was Bud that turned me onto using that reverb, that's what he uses, and it's a great sounding reverb IMHO. Nectar also has a pretty good de-esser, I could have used that instead of the waves one I used.
If I had both nectar and neutron on the vocal track I would probably disable the EQ in nectar, but you could let your ears be the judge of that I guess.
When you say Neutron has to be on the master bus, I think you mean the tonal balance control module? Yes, that has to be on the master bus. And from that tonal balance control you can adjust the EQ of all the neutron modules used in the session.
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Dave, Thank you for insight and help!!! I re-activated my Vocal Rider today. Should of done it 6 month ago, my tunes would have been more even Best regards, Mike.
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chulaivet1966, I like to complete my songs including lyrics (once the backing track is completed) in no more than 2-3 sittings (well, standing for singing) It goes something like this... At times I feel like a pregnant woman in her last trimester (and at times like a constipated man), and in either case I have to get it out of me, the faster the better. So I rarely bother to re-do lyrics or music. You can make a kid wear teeth braces, but you can not change the shape of his/her nose. That's life My goal is try to do things as neatly as possible from the start, so I do not pull remains of my hairs later. Advice I got was awesome and very detailed! This is probably the first time I did it in such manner, none of my close friends do home recordings, so there was nobody to ask in "live" setting. Mike.
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Yup.... I consider the Showcase as the "catch all" category for music. Everything gets posted there from rough scratch ideas to finished songs. I personally think the Showcase should be a "SHOWCASE" for your finished tunes. Mixed, polished, and ready for prime time. However, that's not always the case. I've posted there and said Comments Welcome.....and as a result of those comments felt it necessary to go back to the DAW and make changes to one degree or another. When one person points out something, OK... it's a personal preference, but when 2 or 3 say the same thing.... maybe it is time to have a second look.
There's no problems in asking for "comments welcome" or.... "critique the mix please". Everything from great song.... to the mix needs work.... are valid comments. Some folks don't want comments, don't want critiques, and don't want advice. But if I think comments more than good work are deserved, I will comment and if it's a "heavier" critique, I will often comment by PM. Even then I have been told all sorts of things from I should mind my own business to where I could go and what I could do when I got there. Kid you not.
The songwriter forum is more ( IMHO ) for the folks looking to collaborate or having an idea and asking someone else to jump in and offer some writing advice. Partial, unfinished musical snippets to almost or completely done are fair game there. It's also the place to post links to writing videos and articles. It's all about becoming better writers over there.
Not mentioned is the Recording, Mixing, and production forum...... this one, well, all three kind of are in the same general area in my book..... with subtle differences. You can also post in there if the thrust of the post and info sought is more into the recording and production area.... such things as does the bass sound clear? Is the snare too loud? Is the overall EQ and reverb levels good on this? I'd suggest using this forum section for the unfinished mixing questions, but.... you can do the same thing in the Showcase.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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My take on this is that any song that is posted on the Internet is open to honest, friendly, helpful critiques. If one has thin skin then don't post.
I have given some critiques as well as received some very helpful critiques on my posts. You can respectfully give advice without trashing the song. It has happened on the Showcase many times.
Although there are a few members who could do it the Showcase is not about critically analogizing each and every song. If that is your goal their are free and paid serves that do that sort of thing. But again you better have some very thick skin.
My vote, if we are voting, is for keeping the Showcase just the way it is now. YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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RustySpoon#,
I'm sorry you missed the points I tried to make. Perhaps it is better for me to just let it be.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Herb, Mario thank you for posts. Maybe I misinterpreted initial request a bit... Showcase worked very well for what I needed. It is not my intention to ask a "critique" or "tips" for every (or every fifth) tune I make. I guess, next time (if it comes) I will post a small audio snippet to "Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production" To rephrase initial request: "audio issues when using BIAB / RB programs / content" -Not specific to mixing. That was just a thought. It would be nice...If there is no traction, who am I to speak? Beggars can't be choosers P.S. You know... When I let my wife or friends listen to my new tune I say.. tell me what you do not like about it. That's what friends are for, to give honest opinion if asked for one. I know I am a crappy musician, but for a part time hobbyist, I am ok. I love it!... Lucky for me, I do not get hurt very easily and take critique very well. I believe when it is honest, it is the only thing that could make one better, trying to re-evaluate & re-imagine things constantly. P.S.S. Maybe a thread topic: "A Skin Of A Snow Tire" (chulaivet1966 (C)) Wayne, it is totally yours, but if you have no use for it, I will gladly use it in future tune and credit you for it. If you are reading this, please let me know. Thanks, Mike.
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P.S.S. Maybe a thread topic: "A Skin Of A Snow Tire" (chulaivet1966 (C)) Wayne, it is totally yours, but if you have no use for it, I will gladly use it in future tune and credit you for it. If you are reading this, please let me know. Thanks, Mike. Chuckle..... Not to worry....I don't create drama to exalt myself and I'd never make any claim regarding that phrase. Use it at your own future whim should you think it worthy in any context. No one else will know. Back to topic weed hoppers....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 10/22/18 06:18 PM.
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