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Supposedly, this piano had been tuned the last time 6 years ago. This piano was only off by about 11 cents on average across the middle few octaves. The thing that was particularly impressive is that there were probably only 15 notes across the whole of the piano that were significantly not consonant with themselves.
I brought it a little closer to A440, and doggone it if those same 15 notes didn't need to have a twice-over or thrice-over after going through the whole thing.
It was an M405 model. It's 12 years old. Loud and clean.
It also didn't have a bunch of ugly decoration on it. That's one thing I like about my own Yamaha - plain jane styling - will kind of hide on the wall for years to come.
-Scott
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Yeah, I've noticed that the M's are an easy tune, too. And they HOLD it. Great pinblocks.
One thing to look out for in certain M's and also the C's -- hardened hammer felt.
You can websearch up enough info about that one, Scott. There was some felt that would just turn hard in a few years time. Scuffing it up doesn't help much, the only real answer is to refelt all the hammers. An "ouch" of a job the first time or two, a piano technician can sometimes find a heckuva deal on an M or a C because of this, though, and refelt and turn the piano back into something divine -- and resell at the "proper" street price because of it.
If the piano has good felts in it, not to worry. They changed the material somewhere along the line when the problem was finally recognized by the factory.
The way I spot the hardened felt syndrome on the Yamaha's is simple enough. Having experience with MIDI keyboards, the Yammy with the hardened felt problem often feels like you are trying to play a MIDI piano that has had its touch sensitivity set too light. And so all notes sound like they are being hammered or pounded, even when you use a light touch. bang-bang-bang The piano that is "on its way" to this problem can be a little harder to spot, but not for someone who is keen to what a piano should sound like when played pianissimo. When the felts are just starting to harden, one can often use felt dressing tools to alleviate the problem, extending the life of the felt a few more years, especially of value for the home piano enthusiast. Pros should likely get the new felts immediately. If their M or C has the problem, that is.
--Mac
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All these years of reading your posts, I had no idea you're both piano tuners.
About 5 years ago I decided I wanted a grand but the only way to afford a good one was to buy a ugly beater and rebuild it so I bought a 5'8 50's era Knabe grand that somebody had painted a lovely chipped up beige with a brush 20 or so years ago. It was structurally solid, no cracks in the soundboard, just looked like crap. I completely disassembled it in my living room in a condo complex, no garage, right down to having some friends over to remove the plate which I refinished on the balcony, putting the case on blocks, removing the lyre and legs, everything. Working on the action and restringing is beyond me so I hired that out but I did everything else including refelting, new dampers, the whole deal. Since it was in my living room, after stripping it with a ecofriendly orange stripper, I refinished it by doing hand rubbed shellac, "french polishing".
I could have used some tips from a couple of pros, I should have posted some questions. As it is, I spent about 6 months researching this on the internet before I started. The tech I used for the action, hammers, repinning and keys did a great job too.
You guys may not appreciate this part, but I created a paper company just so I could order all the parts I needed from various piano supply houses around LA without being a member of the tuner's guild...
I still have it in mind to do another one, maybe a bigger Steinway or Mason Hamlin but not in my living room this time, I would rent some space somewhere. I really love those Mason's.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Knabe's are great old American pianos.
I'm glad to hear you saved one from the junk heap.
As for creating the paper company, that's how its done, son!
I'm not a Guild member either, just some guy who started a job many years ago at a piano and organ store and branched out. Some of the old boys who originally taught me the ropes were Guild members. We used to deliver a piano and then schedule a tuning, of course. I was one of the new generation that started using a Stroboconn to tune pianos. Those old boys certainly frowned on it a lot back in the day. But once I'd owrked out the stretch tables with it and documented same, I could retune a certain piano *exactly* the way it had originally been tuned, with absolute reproduction of result and precision. Today, there are digital stroboconns that can "remember" a piano and recall it for the retune. Wonderful things. Still, one should first learn to tune "by the beats" so that they understand what's really going on there.
I used to deliver a piano as the salesman and sit right down and bring it in to the fork and set the beats for the size of piano and room, right then and there. The old adage that what makes you a "pro" is that somebody paid you to do the job more'n once, I guess.
I'm never too far from a hammer, fork and mutes, though. The skill can really come in handy when you are faced with playing whatever's sittin' in the club, too...
--Mac
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Well, I wouldn't call myself a piano tuner yet - I've tuned about 10 pianos total. I learned the very basic rudiments from the gentleman who tuned our piano for years when he offered to show me the introductory ropes. I don't have the stretch tuning aspect even started except I do tune the upper and lower 2 octaves entirely by ear - mainly out of necessity since my cheapo little guitar tuner, even with a piezo pickup, simply doesn't lock onto anything in those octaves. I think the pianos might end up slightly stretched, but I can't be certain.
The gentleman I learned from has been tuning for 40+ years. He has used a stroboscopic tuner for all of those years - a very cool looking piece of analog gear that I would love to own but my understanding is that the refurbed models cost loads.
Where I live, there are so many pianos to be tuned, I hope that I am not taking work away from a true guild technician. I need to invest in some different sized heads for the single hammer I have, and I also need to get some felt for the upper couple octaves.
I'm doing about 1 piano every 3 weeks right now. Actually, that's enough since I have a day job, a wife and 4 kids. I'm getting the customers that are mostly cheapskates (like me) since I don't feel right charging the same rate as a guild technician and I really don't have the tools to do repairs. (yes Mac, I remember you telling me that I can make my own tools - but I've got the Schaff catalog and it's overwhelming).
-Scott
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Quote:
...I really don't have the tools to do repairs. (yes Mac, I remember you telling me that I can make my own tools - but I've got the Schaff catalog and it's overwhelming).
-Scott
I found a lot of stuff on Ebay Scott, including a box of misc piano tools for something like $20 or so including 2 tuning hammers, some rubber spacers and other stuff. As I was driving around LA picking up things, I would wander around the back of several different shops where they were rebuilding pianos and talk to the workmen who were very helpful. Several of them would say here take one of these things, I have several already. I've got a whole file cabinet full of notes, phone numbers and leftover stuff relating to rebuilding pianos. One guy gave me the name of a company in Minnesota that has all the soundboard and fallboard decals for what looks like every piano company that ever existed that I used for my Knabe. None of this stuff is particularly hard, it's mostly grunt work and common sense except for the keyboard assembly and restringing with new tuning pins. I was tempted but decided nah, leave that to a pro. The only potentially bad thing is to gradually release the tension on the old strings before you start cutting them, otherwise you might get sliced up or lose an eye.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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