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#65049 - 03/12/10 09:03 AM [Off-Topic] New Song - Our Caledonia
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
Hi All,
I have taken advice from this forum and tried to include it in this song.

1. It is an AAA song (no chorus)
2. I tried to tell a story in the Lyrics
3. I tried to have the song build as it went along.

The song is my take on Scottish history and aspirations.
It is about gaining independence.

Here it is:- Our Caledonia

If you scroll down there are Lyrics to view.

I would be grateful for your comments.

Best regards
michee
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#65050 - 03/12/10 05:58 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: George Nelson]
jim111 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 409
Hi Michee,

Me likes it. In fact, me likes it a lot. I think you nailed all your goals and then some. I've listened to it thru my three systems and the mix holds up really well in all three. (headphones, Yamaha kp 10's powered by Alesis RA 100, and Event TR-8's with KRK sub)

But you want some comments, and I do have at least one suggestion. The ending note. It's not pretty, it dies a horrible death, and I would urge you to fix that. :>)

Ok, some maybe's. If I were mixing this, I probably would experiment with a few things, just to see if I could get some slight improvements.

1. Vox---Love the effects here and they are done to perfection (to my ears at least. lol) but I would try backing off the reverb on the vox just a little and adding a small amount to the whole mix, hoping that would bring the guitars and vox into the same space more naturally. Any gains here would be small because the guitars and vox sound great as is.

2. Guitars.---I think starting out I would pan them slightly different, and maybe even double the main rhythm guitar. Then starting on the second verse, I would move them a little, and on the third, go to what you have.

3. Levels. I think I would also spend some time riding the volume on some of the instruments. The violin comes to mind as a good example of where this might bring some small improvements.

Ok, I'm on about my sixth listen now, and I'm really enjoying this song. It doesn't really need anything except the ending note fixed. lol

Excellent effort, and thanks for sharing.

Later,
Jim
_________________________
I'd be completely happy if I had just one more guitar.

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#65051 - 03/12/10 06:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: jim111]
Muzic Trax Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4962
Loc: California
Michee,

You did a fantastic job building this song. Perfect !!

It sounds great as is to me. Fantastic song and vocal, wtg !!!

Trax

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#65052 - 03/12/10 06:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: jim111]
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11336
Loc: Hamlin NY
Hi Michee, I think you have a potential winner here! I loved it!

Like Jim I think you have to do something with the ending. The song is too good to end like that. Maybe eliminate that last note on the organ(?).

I liked the build on the instruments but for me the vox didn’t build with the song. It was the same volume through out. I thought the effects you used were very good. I would just cut back on the vox’s volume and have it crescendo as the song builds up. Again this is just my two cents and other may or may not agree. I will say that this is a super song and with a few minor adjustments it could be outstanding.

Keep up the good work - MarioD
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#65053 - 03/13/10 03:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: MarioD]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13525
Loc: Australia
Hi Michee,

You've done it again! I really like your song.

Not knowing much about Caledonian history, I'm not sure which person(s) you're talking about. Because of this, my initial thought was that it would be good to have a name in the lyrics but then I read that you wrote this with an anthem in mind. In that case, names are not necessarily needed because the people who will be singing it, know who the song is about.

It's really good to hear your arrangement build. It definitely pulls the listener into the mix. If this was my song, something I'd experiment with would be to build up verses 1 and 2 like you have done and then throttle back for verse 3 and build up through verses 4 and 5 culminating with a spectacular and "proud" final verse. The kind of "teasing" that happens by building up an arrangement and then coming back down and building up again adds a good emotional contour to a song.

If you're interested in hearing what I'm trying to say about emotional contours, have a listen to the below Westlife song (Josh Groban also does a spectacular version of this song). It has anthem-like qualities. By riding the crest of an emotional wave created by the arranger, hear how the listener is lifted up and down as the song progresses. To me, this song is a very satisfying musical journey. What makes it all the more surprising is that this song is only one verse and one chorus yet the arranger manages to engage the listener for 4 consecutive repetitions of the chorus (a total of 4 minutes!). To my way of thinking, that's an amazing accomplishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4DJHOzIxvs
lyrics

One approach that I find handy, is physically to draw the emotional contour as the song develops. It's like drawing a graph. As the song plays, I draw slowly from left to right on some paper. When the intensity of the mix increases (or decreases) I draw up (or down) the paper while still moving left to right. The steepness of my gradients indicates how quick the intensity change occurred. (This was a tip that I picked up from Stephen Webber (grammy award winning producer). I find this approach very helpful when listening to songs I like because it helps me understand how I might develop my own arrangements.)

The above are just thoughts. Please feel free to take them or leave them as you wish. I just love listening to each of your new songs. Keep up the excellent work. I must say, I really enjoy hearing where the muse takes you. You're a talented man.

All the best,
Noel


Edited by Noel96 (03/14/10 07:19 AM)
_________________________
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#65054 - 03/13/10 04:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Noel96]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7547
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Michee,

I liked the way you start out sparsely accompanied, then build from there. It is a very nice song. Your songs always have a finished sound to them that I really like.

Your vocals are so dang GOOD, I was expecting you to add some harmony, but it never came. You could flaunt it because you've got it. (Put that in the back of your thinking as you develop your ideas.)

The idea of building momentum in a song is particularly interesting in the context of an anthem, because the potential already exists to stir the listener's emotions.

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#65055 - 03/14/10 06:29 AM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Pat Marr]
enjfb Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 169
Loc: Bristol, UK
Hi michee,
This is a really nice song which is very well performed and a well presented story. I like the way it builds and the choice of instruments. The mix is perfect and your singing very good indeed. I agree that the end was not quite right for the ending but apart from this it was a professional performance. Well done.
Jim

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#65056 - 03/14/10 07:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: jim111]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
jim111

Yes I agree that the ending needs working on - it slipped past my tired ears
Quote:

I think I would also spend some time riding the volume on some of the instruments




Well I have a real problem with that - on my PC (which is at least 8 years old, it is a Sony Vaio 222) when I try to adjust the volume sliders in RealBand they are not responsive enough i.e. there is a time lag that gets worse the more tracks I have.

If anybody can help me with that I would be most grateful.


Muzic Trax

Thank you for taking a listen and your kind comments.


MarioD

Quote:

I liked the build on the instruments but for me the vox didn’t build with the song. It was the same volume through out.




See my answer above - I haven't yet been able to control the volume whilst the song is playing.
Any tips or help would be marvellous.


Noel96

The song is about the Scottish Pretender to the throne "Bonnie Prince Charming" and how we lost our independence.
We may one day get it back again.

Quote:

One thing that I find handy, is physically to draw the emotional contour as the song develops. It's like drawing a graph. As the song plays, I draw slowly from left to right on some paper. When the intensity of the mix increases (or decreases) I draw up (or down) the paper while still moving left to right. The steepness of my gradients indicates how quick the intensity change occurred. (This was a tip that I picked up from Stephen Webber (grammy award winning producer). I find this approach very helpful when listening to songs I like because it helps me understand how I might develop my own arrangements.)





I will definitely give that a go as I can see how it may be a great help - Thank you Noel



Pat Marr

Quote:

I was expecting you to add some harmony, but it never came.




I am saving up for Melodyne as I find the TC Helicon just a tad too mechanical to my ears.



enjfb

Thank you for taking a listen and your kind comments.


Best regards
michee


Edited by George Nelson (03/14/10 08:51 AM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#65057 - 03/14/10 02:05 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: George Nelson]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7547
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:


Quote:

I was expecting you to add some harmony, but it never came.




I am saving up for Melodyne as I find the TC Helicon just a tad too mechanical to my ears.





But... but.... YOU CAN SING!!

People like ME who can't sing use melodyne and TCHelicon. People like YOU are what we're trying to sound like! With your voice, you could add harmonies the way singers have been doing it for centuries: by singing a parallel track! And it wouldn't cost anything! (it's one of the perks of being talented)

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#65058 - 03/14/10 02:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Pat Marr]
Skyline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2273
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
Michee, nice song very well sung and it built very nicely. I enjoyed it.
(Oh, if you're going to rebuild Hadrian's wall, can you please be sure and take back Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling first, PLEASE!)

John
_________________________
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YouTube Channel
Band web site
BIAB 2017
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#65059 - 03/14/10 05:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Pat Marr]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
Hi Pat,

I still have problems with intonation (making the vocal come alive)
I thought perhaps Melodyne would help in that respect because believe me I have tried and tried but it just wont come.

regards
michee
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#65060 - 03/14/10 05:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Skyline]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
Hi Skyline,

NO NO NO NO I'm afraid you can keep them both with my best wishes

Thanks for taking a listen and having the wherewithal to comment

regards
michee
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#65061 - 03/14/10 05:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: George Nelson]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7547
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Hi Pat,

I still have problems with intonation (making the vocal come alive)
I thought perhaps Melodyne would help in that respect because believe me I have tried and tried but it just wont come.

regards
michee




I respect your opinion on your own voice... but to me it sounds excellent... one of the best in the forum

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#65062 - 03/15/10 07:46 AM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Pat Marr]
furry Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 5696
Loc: Scottish Highlands
George, this is a cracking song. I'd love to include it in my next internet radio programme. ( April )
_________________________
Graham............

Whenever I have a problem, I just sing, Then I realize my voice is worse than my problem.

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#65063 - 03/15/10 09:35 AM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: furry]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
Hi Graham,

I would be humbled to have you play my song on your internet radio.

Would you let me know how I can listen to it please (your radio show)

Thank you for your kind comments.

Best regards

michee
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#65064 - 03/15/10 12:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: George Nelson]
Ian Fraser Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/02/00
Posts: 1696
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
A fine piece of nationalism you've carved there Michee.
A brave project with a fine outcome. My Fraser forebears apparently came from Aberdeen in the late 1700s - most likely Fraser Highlanders discharged in Nova Scotia after the American Revolution. but I canna trace the first one back to the home country.

Was this in response to a local "homegrown" historical anthem search? I ask because I once entered an Olympic Song Contest for the Montreal 76 Olympics. Didn't win of course but I got a good song out of it. Doesn't inspiration work in strange ways.

Cheers - Ian
_________________________
Ian
My "Original Tunes" Site
My gene pool needs more chlorine.

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#65065 - 03/15/10 03:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: New Song - Our Caledonia [Re: Ian Fraser]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1179
Loc: Scotland
Hi Ian,

Quote:

Was this in response to a local "homegrown" historical anthem search? I ask because I once entered an Olympic Song Contest for the Montreal 76 Olympics. Didn't win of course but I got a good song out of it. Doesn't inspiration work in strange ways.





I wrote the song as we are coming up to a General Election in Great Britain.

The Scots can vote but we have our own "Devolved Parliament" but the British Government hold sway over lots of things that I don't agree with.

So the song was my way of showing that I am in favour of "Independence for Scotland".

Yes, you are right about inspiration coming at strange times/places/memories etc...

Thank you for your nice comments.

Best regards
michee
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 520, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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