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OP
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Let's talk complex chords.
Today I encountered a song, Renata Maria. It was written by Ivan Lins, whom I consider Brazil's greatest living composer, and it has chords I could not enter as-is into BIAB. In some cases, I found a substitute, but others are just not supported. So this is a "would be nice to have" list.
Chord in the song leadsheet: Am(b6)
Chord I typed into BIAB: Am#5
Result: just fine; enharmonically the same, and I was surprised BIAB supported this
Chord in the song leadsheet: BmMaj9
Chord I typed into BIAB: BmMaj7
Result: OK, not quite right but plays the important notes (minor third & major seven); it would be nice to support mMaj9
Chord in the song leadsheet: Em9(b6)
Chord I typed into BIAB: not possible; I gave up and typed Em9, but I could have used Em#5 or Em7#5
Result: I think no combination of b6 or #5 or b13 will work in BIAB with a minor nine chord. You have to decide which is more important: the nine or the sharp five.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Certainly it would be a great improvement if all known chords were supported.
Definitely +1
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Certainly it would be a great improvement if all known chords were supported.
Definitely +1
Yes +1
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Expert
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In my estimation, it is difficult to support all known/possible/thinkable chords in Band in a Box - this would fail due to the concept of RealTracks. For this, real musicians would have to play all chords and even more so chord changes in advance – what would be countless. This would simply not make sense - even if a clever program logic would find chord substitutions. The second problem: Band in a Box still uses (at least currently and to be backward compatible with older song files) a character addressing with an address space for a maximum of 256 displayable combinations of a chord letter plus extensions. This space is already pretty much exhausted.
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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I previously wasn't aware of the second problem that you mentioned, but this can easily be worked around. If the version is less than 'x' then use the 256 algorithm. If it is >= 'x' then treat it as having a broader range capability.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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OP
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Thanks, everyone.
I fully realize this discussion appears to affect very few, but I think it has some broader implications.
I posted in the User Tracks Forum a few years ago, asking for a template with the more complex chords I need for my Brazilian jazz compositions. The question was never answered.
BIAB should be able to be programmed to play in MIDI any chord imaginable. The problem arises with RealTracks, as Brille mentioned.
Of course, even with MIDI, some common chords are supported only by equivalencies. For example, an add2 and add9 are treated as a 2 chord. This is not right, but it gets by.
In the case of the chords I mentioned, I could create shortcuts for the first two, so at least I could type them and get something reasonable. The third example, though, just doesn’t give me a workable solution.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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+1
If complex chords were supported in MIDI that would be a start at least.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Journeyman
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I agree with Brille, this could be infinite for a "Real" guitarist.
On a piano just about any chord can be laid out nice and pretty, as long as it has less than 11 notes in it.
One can often push a variety of inversions of the chord without making fingering difficult.
The piano can be wonderful in that way.
Chords on the guitar seem an exercise in compromise, especially more complex chords.
Aside from certain musical genres, 6 notes are rarely played when voicing complex chords.
I believe most Guitarist rely on 3 or 4 note chords when comping. Sometimes 5 and sometimes 2.
Example: Consider a b9b13 chord, you need 1,3,5,b7,b9,b13 (i believe) to construct on a piano.
It may be physically impossible for most (any) players to play that in root position on a guitar. I don't know.
I'm guessing it would sound like mud if you could play it.
So which ones do you leave out on a guitar. Typically the 5th goes first, then probably the 1.
So you end up with a playable 4 note chord of 3,b7,b9,b13.
It may sound great played that way or you may have to move it around (invert)to make it playable
Add the 1 if you like (or can) for 5 notes. A lot of guitar players might just leave it out.
Likewise the b7 may disappear and be replaced by the 1 in the 4 note construction.
Put the b9 in the bass? Sure, if it sounds ok.
Imagine all the enharmonic names for those little gems.
How would you ask for them in BIAB?
I could go on an on. The more I think about it (melody, bass lines, voice leading, cadences,next chords,other comping players in the band) the more I realize the requirements and solutions on the guitar are large, possibly infinite.
Back to the shed. I need to work on my comping skills
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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OP
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Yes, I was taught much the same by Romero Lubambo when he played on my record. It’s challenging to decide which notes to play. He definitely had fun playing my compositions.
But when you write a complex chord in BIAB and both a guitar and piano track are present, the program should (at least in MIDI) be able to sound every chord tone (except the root, if there is also a bass track).
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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+1
Sure thing.
The Jjazzlab guy “solved” the problem by using the Cm11 chord as a base for the midi and has underlying scales. That means you would not need hundreds of chords, only about 20, be it with different chord tones as specified by the way you notate the chord (Amb6 or Am9b6).
There’s only the major scales (7 chords), melodic minor (7 chords), harmonic minor (7 chords), diminished, wholetone and augmented.
With those 6 scales and their modes you can play anything from Ellington to Dewey Redman… and back.
If you listen to how Jjazzlab works, really sounds good, even with complex harmony. Lydian, phrygian and sus13b9 (II-chord from melodic minor)? No prob.
Biab should step up their game, definitely, to accomodate complex harmony.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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