Hi all. I am beginning to read the full online manual. This should be a cool adventure! I have also tried as best I can to search first.
So I am in the MIDI/Audio setup section and I realize there are some terms and concepts I don't quite understand yet.
I see that the MIDI output is set for VirtualMIDIsynth #1 rather than MS GS Wavetable synth.
Is this a MIDI driver that was installed with BIAB? Is it better than The MS driver which I am intuiting comes with the MS OS? Does the MIDI driver actually make the sounds or is it just a piece of software that lets musical items communicate?
Then there seems to be a section called VST/Dxi synth and it appears that I have Coyote WT installed. Is this something that came with BIAB or did I already, unknown to me, have this on my computer? How is this different from a driver? If it is a software synthesizer, is this being used to create the sounds coming out of BIAB? Are there other alternative pieces of software with different qualities that could be used instead?
I will stop here. My searching was still over my head because I am just now learning what all the basics are. I so appreciate your orienting me. This is such an amazingly interesting journey and so far building practice tracks for my self has been absolutely fantastic.
Hi. This may take awhile but it's good you are asking and learning.
The Microsoft sounds come with any Windows computer. They are terrible.
The Coyote WT is a way to play these sounds on a 64-bit computer.
The VirtualMIDISynth #1 is something I have never seen. If you have a laptop, it may be the manufacturer's soundcard.
Since you have VSTi/DXi checkbox checked, your sound is the Coyote WT. VSTi and DXi are two technologies of software MIDI synths; the lower case i stands for instrument.
It's OLD. It is not current. But it IS a good start to understanding.
Basically, you can use a software or a hardware (external) MIDI synth to play your MIDI. You can spend anything ranging from zero up to thousands. Note my signature, the Roland Integra-7. This is one manufacturer's top of the line, about $1,700 at the time I bought it eight years ago.
Note that this discussion is ONLY about your MIDI sounds. The RealTracks and RealDrums are audio (not MIDI) and they will play through whatever sound circuits your computer uses for any audio, such as YouTube videos with sound. That's another story, and usually not as much of a concern.
Still with me?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Fabulous start! I am on a powerful desktop with WIN 10. Thanks for those comments. So if I understand correctly then, the way I have this set up, the sounds are produced by a synthesizer called Coyote WT.
The checked box under use VSTi/DXi Synth is directing the program to not use the generic drivers, but rather use an actual software synth program called Coyote WT (I suspect I have this available from when I used to use JJazzlab MIDI backing track creator, but it is a guess)
How should I proceed to investigate better synth options to use with BIAB? Are these freely available or do I search for and pay for a better synth to have the best sounds? Do you have recommendations?
Start by visiting that web page Dare to Compare. Then your questions will quickly be more focused. Have fun.
For example, if I listen to the guitar on the Slow Bossa demo for the Coyote WT, it sounds like a toy, but the Coyote Forte makes it sound much more like a guitar.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
For example, if I listen to the guitar on the Slow Bossa demo for the Coyote WT, it sounds like a toy, but the Coyote Forte makes it sound much more like a guitar
On this topic, Coyote Forte was my go-to GM synth with BIAB for years. But Coyote Forte is 32bit only and never went to 64bit. So when BIAB went 64bit I needed a replacement. I found the free version of VSTSynthfont64 as a BIAB compatible player and then I found Coyote forte as a soundfont file. I put the two together and that has worked nicely for the past several years. Just my two cents.
Matt, really helpful! I will check out that website right away.
You mention Coyote Forte sounding great, but MusicStudent in his comment below suggests that is 32 bit only, but I suspect BIAB still will play a 32 bit program.
I found that resource on the PG website and YES indeed the sound of the Forte is far superior!
Are there other commercially available software synths that are the height of quality? Can you suggest one?
Thanks Music Student. The topic of the two components you mentioned is above my paygrade LOL at this point but I am learning.
(Further Edit) Well here is a question that occurs to me. Does all this talk about MIDI Synths only pertain to playing a MIDI track in BIAB and if I am only using RealTracks, then this does not pertain because BIAB does not fuss with MIDI for these but plays non-MIDI audio tracks. Do I have this right?
(Further Edit) Well here is a question that occurs to me. Is all this talk about MIDI Synths only pertain to playing a MIDI track in BIAB and if I am only using RealTracks, then this does not pertain because BIAB does not fuss with MIDI for these but plays non-MIDI audio tracks. Do I have this right?
Yes. If you care to, you can leave Midi to us Midiodits and enjoy those RTs.
So what are some of the highest quality paid software synth plugins that would compete with Coyote Forte for use with MIDI tracks?
It looks like from further searching that Coyote Electronics is out of business.
I see from my further reading on the net that most paid for software synths have all types of capability for sound manipulation. What I am interested in is simply the best collection of authentic sounds of instruments to make MIDI tracks sound their best and won't be interested in tweaking at all. Is it still a "software synth" I am looking for or some other type of plug in to give me the best sounds period with out all the adjustability? Perhaps a better term for what I am looking for is "virtual instrument audio plugin"
The 32bit Coyote Forte will not run in BIAB64. If a BIAB32 is still available (I have not checked in a year or two?) you can use that, but remember Coyote Forte is not free.
You have two options to begin with in regards to using a midi synth in BIAB, 1)Software and 2) Hardware. Details are more than I have time to go into here, but it is a process to study because with Midi comes great power and with great power comes great responsibilty (to become a mididiot).
Keep asking questions and reading. There is no rush. Have fun with the RTs and after a while you will begin to see what Midi has to offer.
OK thanks. PG chat could not help me either with a simple replacement for Coyote WT. Clearly this topic seems to be way more complex than I ever fathomed! I just thought that maybe since Coyote WT seemed to provide a sound for all the MIDI tracks in BIAB, that there must be another alternative to it with higher quality sound fidelity that could just replace the Coyote WT plugin. It appears that is probably not the case, so I will just forget about it and stick to RealTracks.
I thought it would be good for me to read the 2022 user manual but just the first section sent me down this route. Clearly I am not knowledgeable enough to understand the fine points of the internal settings, which if fine.
BTW this is not complaining at all; it is just that I am beginning to recognize on what level I want to delve into BIAB right now. And that is really helpful to know!
OK thanks. PG chat could not help me either with a simple replacement for Coyote WT. Clearly this topic seems to be way more complex than I ever fathomed! I just thought that maybe since Coyote WT seemed to provide a sound for all the MIDI tracks in BIAB, that there must be another alternative to it with higher quality sound fidelity that could just replace the Coyote WT plugin. It appears that is probably not the case, so I will just forget about it and stick to RealTracks.
Here in the forum there are roughly 4 different options being used to get the optimum midi sound in BIAB. For each one, someone will tell that one is the best. So I am going to make a video on how to install and use my favorite, the free version of VSTSynthfont64. And as a bonus, how to install and use Coyote forte as a soundfont file within VSTSynthfont64. Stay tuned, I will get it out over the holiday.
I just thought that maybe since Coyote WT seemed to provide a sound for all the MIDI tracks in BIAB, that there must be another alternative to it with higher quality sound fidelity that could just replace the Coyote WT plugin. It appears that is probably not the case, so I will just forget about it and stick to RealTracks.
Oh, please don't do that!
I don't render MIDI in BIAB (I export it to Logic and render it there) so I can't offer specific assistance, but you really don't want to restrict yourself to RealTracks, given the near-infinite flexibility of MIDI and the availability of high quality sounds.
Consider a BIAB MIDI track of just slow piano chords. Add a MIDI arpeggiator and you have a completely different part. There's no way to do that with RealTracks.
I don't render MIDI in BIAB (I export it to Logic and render it there)
That is another one of the four options. And it is indeed a good one. Replace Logic with Reaper and it pretty much describes my workflow. But it is a bit deeper water to swim in.
Although I would not do it this way if I were starting over again, I use a hardware MIDI synth. Those, you can set up and forget.
Some of your questions encourage me to suggest you go back to my early responses and reread them. This is a complex and never-ending quest to get great sound.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Some of your questions encourage me to suggest you go back to my early responses and reread them. This is a complex and never-ending quest to get great sound.
Thanks for this advice Matt. I have just done that and yes, it's making more sense now. I appreciate your "coaching".
The place where I am stopped now is what software alternative to use for Coyote WT (if any). I will really look forward to MusicStudent's video to help me learn more about what to and how to substitute. For me, I will prefer a software option.
That’s a good idea. To get the best suggestions, perhaps create a new thread and ask how to get the best software-based MIDI sounds from BIAB and be sure to give an idea of your budget. That will garner much more attention than this thread.
We have this discussion every so often. I’ve even started some. But I don’t think we’ve done that in a couple of years.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Read Peter Gannon's sticky post at the top of the forum index 'heres' a no brainer...............'
the TTS1 is a roland soft synth and its free with cakewalk and there's a link in Dr Gannon's thread. and the great thing about a DXi synth is that BIAB will find it automatically. next time you go to the midi driver page the TTS1 will be a choice in the drop down menu. you don't even need to ever open the main cakewalk program.
the TTS1 is a GM synth (general midi) which means it can play all the midi instruments in the GM1 and GM2 spec. at the top right hand of the midi driver page you'll find a patch map for the TTS1 as a drop down option. that simply tells BIAB where to look for the instrument sounds when you use the TTS1
i prefer TTS1 sounds to coyote sounds but you can try both
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