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Joined: Aug 2023
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I’ve read that some users prefer to build drum tracks in their daw instead of using the BiaB drum parts.
I can see that building a drum track from scratch like Logic Drummer offers a great deal of flexibility.
But Biab drum parts seem to build upon each other, giving it a more organic feel, at least to my ears.
I’m curious about other user’s thoughts on this and any tips/shortcuts to work with BiaB in context of song styles and possible drum editing in Biab.
Thanks,
David
Biab for MAc 2023
Logic Pro (most current)
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Virtually all of my songs are in MIDI and start in BiaB. All of the BiaB tracks are dragged and dropped into my DAW, Studio One Pro 6. I then modify said tracks there. As for the drum tracks I modify them to better fit my songs by rewriting certain sections via the piano roll or direct input, then I use good MIDI drum sound sources. Most of the rewriting involve adding drum breaks, rolls, changing drum or cymbal hits, etc.
I find it easier to do all of my work in my DAW while others do it all in BiaB. It is just a personal choice.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi Mario,
Thanks for your feedback! Especially your description how you revise the midi Biabdrum parts once inside the daw.
Would you mind sharing which midi drum sounds you favor?
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My main go to drum sounds are Steven Slate's SSD-5 drums: https://stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/Note this is not a GM drum kit so you will have to assign each drum to match the GM equivalent. I have a SSD-5 drum map in my DAW so that helps. My second choice is Addictive Drums 2: https://www.xlnaudio.com/products/addictive_drums_2It is GM compatible however you only get a few drum kits, no wheres near as many as in SSD-5. I do have a number of other single drum kits, some were free, however I rarely use them. I hope this helps.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks, Mario.
Before you walk five miles today, this could make a nice topic for the Tips and Tricks Forum.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I hear great things about SSD. I think for now that’s next level, while I become better acquainted with RD and drum stems Thanks again!
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Thanks for posting. That’s a deep dive!
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Mario,
Do you ever build up drum/percussion tracks from other sources, say ToonTrack's Drum Midi Groove packs.
I've created a few nice percussion (congas,timbales) parts using Logic's Drummer but that option is proprietary to the AAPL universe.
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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Mario,
Do you ever build up drum/percussion tracks from other sources, say ToonTrack's Drum Midi Groove packs.
I've created a few nice percussion (congas,timbales) parts using Logic's Drummer but that option is proprietary to the AAPL universe. Yes. I use GrooveMonkee MIDI drum loops: https://groovemonkee.com/I have most all of their MIDI drum loops. They are great for replacing and/or enhancing BiaB MIDI drums. I will say that many of BiaB's MIDI drum loops are excellent. Can't you audio record the Logic's percussion and use them with BiaB tracks while in Logic? In other words bring the BiaB tracks into Logic, create your Logic percussion tracks, bounce/record said percussion tracks, and use those audio tracks along with the BiaB tracks.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mario,
Do you ever build up drum/percussion tracks from other sources, say ToonTrack's Drum Midi Groove packs.
I've created a few nice percussion (congas,timbales) parts using Logic's Drummer but that option is proprietary to the AAPL universe. Yes. I use GrooveMonkee MIDI drum loops: https://groovemonkee.com/I have most all of their MIDI drum loops. They are great for replacing and/or enhancing BiaB MIDI drums. I will say that many of BiaB's MIDI drum loops are excellent. Can't you audio record the Logic's percussion and use them with BiaB tracks while in Logic? In other words bring the BiaB tracks into Logic, create your Logic percussion tracks, bounce/record said percussion tracks, and use those audio tracks along with the BiaB tracks. If I understand your question That is normally what I do. I build my arrangement in biab and export a pile of real tracks as individual .wav to Logic I invariably use a biab real drum track (or two or 3) for my basic drum part. Then I'll use Logic drummer to generate various additional percussion tracks I mix in where appropriate. If I wanted I could get the midi out of the Logic Drummer. I haven't needed to do that yet All the other tracks in my Logic project come from biab real tracks. The rest of the band, if you will I mix eq and master all that and bounce out a 320kbps mp3 I can use as a backing track for gigging.
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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I recently did some work on the BiaB real tracks with stems. I spent considerable time using a gate to isolate the individual drums, kick snare etc. while the gate plugin knocked down the bleed from the other drum mikes it did not totally eliminate it. So the end results sounded very love. I was impressed. You used to term organic. That seems to apply.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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You can try replacement in Reaper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LgflmNt_iwyou can use the samples in the Playable RealDrums sfz wav C:\Program Files\PG Music Inc\Band-in-a-Box Sounds\Programs\Playable RealDrums Or check out https://drumagog.com/
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Most BIAB drum tracks need some sort of EQing for my purposes. the move to Drum "stems" gives more scope to build a kit but when the OHs are mono this is thwarted somewhat. Drums on Demand have drums that can be cut up like BIAB ones as well as the individual close mic'd and room recordings which is cool.
I'm not a fan of programmed drums simply becasue they are often "unreal".
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I recently did some work on the BiaB real tracks with stems. I spent considerable time using a gate to isolate the individual drums, kick snare etc. while the gate plugin knocked down the bleed from the other drum mikes it did not totally eliminate it. So the end results sounded very love. I was impressed. You used to term organic. That seems to apply. Yes, there's not a lot of isolation in the "stems" at present. Mind you, the bleed gives a nice "glue" to the parts. Again, the overheads are crucial and if they've too much of something other than snare & cymbals it can be a problem PLUS they are a VERY useful guide to recreate the panning of the original kit IF they're in stereo.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I recently did some work on the BiaB real tracks with stems. I spent considerable time using a gate to isolate the individual drums, kick snare etc. while the gate plugin knocked down the bleed from the other drum mikes it did not totally eliminate it. So the end results sounded very love. I was impressed. You used to term organic. That seems to apply. Yes, there's not a lot of isolation in the "stems" at present. Mind you, the bleed gives a nice "glue" to the parts. Again, the overheads are crucial and if they've too much of something other than snare & cymbals it can be a problem PLUS they are a VERY useful guide to recreate the panning of the original kit IF they're in stereo. At this point non-isolation of parts in the "stems" makes them a non-starter for me. I spent a lot of time trying to make them work. RobHelms has skills I may not have employing gates to isolate. It was just annoying to work with. A little bleed through is probably helpful for holding the kit together. However, often the bleed through was overwhelming. Sometimes it was difficult/impossible to reconcile the track named drum part and what you were actually hearing. Lets hope for improvement in the future. Drums are an area in the BIAB product that could use some improvement
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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Hi Ray , thanks for the tip on DOD, I’ll check it out.
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We are happy with RealDrums to the extent that I have never explored Logic's drummer even after having used Logic for 12 years.
We've had 25+ songs that use RDs licensed and have been fortunate to get on some popular Spotify playlists. Not being braggadocio -- just mentioning that as we've never had a complaint about the quality of our drum tracks.
I always drop them into logic completely dry and 0 panned. You may be aware that each RD has an accompanying audio file that contains a recording of each individual component. We nearly always double our RD snares, cymbals and sometimes kick drums with these. For example with the snare I will create a volume automation lane designed to remove or lower the snare from the RD track and then using Logic's groove track I quickly align the snare sample. Then I can apply our favorite fx to the individual track to get the snare "pop" that we like. For the RD track we favor Waves CLADrums.
Additionally we sometimes create our own drum outro using the appropriate kit components. Lastly we often comp up several regens of the RD to get the fills we want in the places where we think they best fit the tune.
All with a big ole FWIW.
J&B
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You may be aware that each RD has an accompanying audio file that contains a recording of each individual component. We nearly always double our RD snares, cymbals and sometimes kick drums with these. For example with the snare I will create a volume automation lane designed to remove or lower the snare from the RD track and then using Logic's groove track I quickly align the snare sample. Then I can apply our favorite fx to the individual track to get the snare "pop" that we like.
Additionally we sometimes create our own drum outro using the appropriate kit components. Lastly we often comp up several regens of the RD to get the fills we want in the places where we think they best fit the tune.
100% In fact, in a couple of instances, I've taken those snap shots, trimmed them and used them as samples connected to a eKit so that I can drop them into the project along with the RD file.
Last edited by rayc; 08/10/23 01:28 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Here is a video I watched and it helped me understand how this works. Even though it is for a different program the principles are the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K340xg0AJ34On the RD stems, it works wonders. Using the overheads and room mikes to add character back in gives a powerful mix.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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