Start with the A Major Scale - A, B,C#,D,E,F#, G #
This is where my "wheels fall off" Why would we start with the A major scale when we are trying to decompose an A minor chord??
I'm sure you're right, I'm just not following the logic.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
This is where my "wheels fall off" Why would we start with the A major scale when we are trying to decompose an A minor chord??
I'm sure you're right, I'm just not following the logic.
In western music the Major Scale is KING. So the convention is to always start with the Major scale as the reference to define any alterations to chord intervals.
Ahhh, ok, I can accept that. It's basically a fundamental rule that was established way back, I'm sure for good reasons.
So, this "start with the major scale rule" applies to decomposing minor chords. Does it also apply to the other chord types in the table above (dim, sus4, sus2, etc.) ?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Ahhh, ok, I can accept that. It's basically a fundamental rule that was established way back, I'm sure for good reasons.
So, this "start with the major scale rule" applies to decomposing minor chords. Does it also apply to the other chord types in the table above (dim, sus4, sus2, etc.) ?
Yes. The major scale in always based on the tonic note of the chord. For instance an Am chord is based on an A major scale, a Bm7b9 is based on the B major scale, a G7sus is based on the G major scale. This is always true regardless of the song's key signature. So if the above chords were played in a song's C key signature they would still be based on the A, B, and G major scales. Understand?
PS - that was a good question to ask.
{edit} Think of it like this, The first letter you see determines the major scale that the chord is based on. I say first because you may see a Gm7/F, or any other slash chord, and the second letter is only for the bass. For instance a C, C/B, C/A, C/G are all based on the C major scale.
Last edited by MarioD; 11/04/2311:08 AM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Hi Mario, I absolutely respectfully respect your response
And I absolutely agree with your statement:
Quote
It has been suggested to the O/P that he/she learn some music theory. They have resisted to do so. If they had done so they would have known how to number a minor chord. Instead of encouraging them in incorrect chord labeling lets help them understand that an Am chord is not 6-3-1 but 1-b3-5. All of the correct labeling of chords are in the chord builder window.
I may have sounded like I was justifying the O/P's approach, that was never intended. Their approach is completely wrong. I was only attempting to see it from the lack of music-theory methodology that the O/P apparently continues to use .
Trev
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Yes. The major scale in always based on the tonic note of the chord. For instance an Am chord is based on an A major scale, a Bm7b9 is based on the B major scale, a G7sus is based on the G major scale. This is always true regardless of the song's key signature. So if the above chords were played in a song's C key signature they would still be based on the A, B, and G major scales. Understand?
PS - that was a good question to ask.
{edit} Think of it like this, The first letter you see determines the major scale that the chord is based on. I say first because you may see a Gm7/F, or any other slash chord, and the second letter is only for the bass. For instance a C, C/B, C/A, C/G are all based on the C major scale.
I think I'm getting this. No matter what type of chord we are talking about, to decompse it to its individual notes you use it's major scale with the table I posted above that specifies its "formula"; 1 - 3 - 5 or 1 - b3 - 5 or 1 - 2 - 5 or whatever it might be.
And you read my mind regarding the key of the song which was my next question. You still use the applicable major scale no matter what the key of the song is. So if an Am chord is in a song in the key of Am: 1=A, b3=C and 5=E.
And if the song is in the key of Bb (or any other key) an Am chord would still decompose to 1=A, b3=C and 5=E
And regarding the bass (or slash note), that is not a chord but a note, and a bass player would simply play that as-is.
Is all this right?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
No the b3 is the C .. the 3 is C#, so Am is A,C,E.
(Typo corrected ... thanks Mario).
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 11/04/2303:36 PM. Reason: typo corrected.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I love to "beat a dead horse"; it's how I apply new found knowledge. Anyone care to spot check my "homework"?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I love to "beat a dead horse"; it's how I apply new found knowledge. Anyone care to spot check my "homework"?
Your chart is the same as my references. Here is the algorithm - All Chords are Stacked thirds from the scale
A Major chord is a Maj 3rd interval followed by a Minor 3rd interval. A minor chord is a Minor 3rd interval followed by a Major 3rd interval.
For example: For a C Major chord, , select the root and go up a major 3rd (two full steps) to a E, then continue up a minor 3rd (one and a half steps) to a G and you get the C Major triad (C – E -G) For a Cm chord, select the root and go up a minor 3rd (one and a half steps) to a Eb, then continue up a major 3rd (two full steps) to a G and you get the Cm triad (C – Eb -G) This works for every Major or Minor chord in any Key!
If this now makes sense, congradulations you have just passed beginning Music Theory - 100. If you want to pass Music Theory 101, then you need to fully understand the next chart which combines the triads you have just learned with the harmonized scales for each individual key: Oh, and by the way, if there are any typos above, these can always be corrected.
Your chart is the same as my references. Here is the algorithm - All Chords are Stacked thirds from the scale
Dan: thanks for sharing your chart; it has a lot more info than mine and I'll add it to my reference binder and grow into it as the needs arise. I went down the list and our charts do agree except for some enharmonic differences. I notice your chart contains E# and B# I'm sure for good reasons I don't yet understand but that's ok. My main usage for this is to help build better bass arpeggios. A distant 2nd usage is to work out how to play minor chords on my Korg.
Mario: thanks to you too. You explain things well. A "meta-lesson" for me here is to always hitch my wagon to the established lexicon of music theory. I will never understand it all but it is incredibly well thought out and has probably been refined over the centuries to where it is today. Even though I'm "nearly blind" thanks for not telling me the sky is green
swingbabymix: I apologize if I hi-jacked your thread but you appeared to have disengaged at the start of this discussion and I saw an opportunity to plug a hole in my theory knowledge. Hopefully you learned something here, I know I did.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I think I have something of a mea culpa here ... I missed Mario's post about the chord-builder dialog and understood SMB's suggestion to mean something else. I agree entirely that the 6,1,3 numbering would be completely wrong in the chord-builder. I related his post here to an earlier one with piano keyboards in the mixer with notes highlighted and I imagined that he wanted those notes numbered when he entered/previewed a chord in the main chord entry view.
So sorry guys, I think I confused things somewhat.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Yes. I understand everything you said. Am (1, b3, 5) When I input, I only considered this form of functional display. So, a better way is to use English letters to display intra chord notes. For example, when I input a C, there is a layer that displays (C, E, G) When I input Am, the upper layer of the chord displays (A, C, E) When inputting a chord, the upper layer displays chord notes, which is very friendly and will help more beginners learn. I don't know if this feature is very difficult to implement. I found that the piano in the MIXER on the right actually displays the keys, but no characters are used to display them.
Your chart is the same as my references. Here is the algorithm - All Chords are Stacked thirds from the scale
Dan: thanks for sharing your chart; it has a lot more info than mine and I'll add it to my reference binder and grow into it as the needs arise. I went down the list and our charts do agree except for some enharmonic differences. I notice your chart contains E# and B# I'm sure for good reasons I don't yet understand but that's ok. My main usage for this is to help build better bass arpeggios. A distant 2nd usage is to work out how to play minor chords on my Korg.
......................................
Steve, the reason there are E# and B# is because the chord note names must be based on the scale. For instance A#m is A#-C#-E#. The notes in the A# major scale are A# - B# - C## - D# - E# - F## - G## thus E# is the fifth note of the scale. Note the C,F,and G double sharps. The b3 is C#, one half step down from C##.
The same for the G# chord, G#-B#-D#. The notes in the G# scale are G#-A#-B#-C#-D#-E#-F##-G# so the G# major chord, 1-3-5, is G#-B#-D#. Same for the double sharps here.
Do not panic as you will rarely see key signatures like this these.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
swingbabymix: I apologize if I hi-jacked your thread but you appeared to have disengaged at the start of this discussion and I saw an opportunity to plug a hole in my theory knowledge. Hopefully you learned something here, I know I did.
I also learned knowledge.
If I think about the minor key as if the major is king. So one of the nice things that you'll find is that major chord progressions can be applied to minor keys. C is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Cm is 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b
At the same time, a lot of us here like to say C=Am, and then say the minor key is 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, which helps you understand at first, but it gets confusing at the end. That's what I've learned here.
So I'm a big believer in using 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b to think about minor keys.
Finally, you want to add a layer to show the inside notes of the chord. Use English display.
So I'm a big believer in using 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b to think about minor keys.
There's a small complication here, because there are three different minor scales. The one you're using here is the Natural Minor, which is the scale that uses the same notes as a major scale three half-step above it, so Am has the same notes as C.
I think that it is good to be aware of that, but not yet to worry too much about it. (Wikipedia has a page here).
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
There's a small complication here, because there are three different minor scales. The one you're using here is the Natural Minor, which is the scale that uses the same notes as a major scale three half-step above it, so Am has the same notes as C.
I think that it is good to be aware of that, but not yet to worry too much about it. (Wikipedia has a page here).
Yes, I'm only vaguely aware that other minor scales exist. I'm assuming that when folks say "Am" or "A minor" that what is implied is the natural minor scale. And that [at least for now] I won't need to deal with the others.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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