I've done this a bazillion times but now just can't. I have a song in my DAW consisting of vocals and BiaB backing tracks, including a 2-bar count in. I now want to import the vocal .WAV file into BiaB so I can better edit the backing tracks. I import the .WAV vocal track to chorus 1, bar -1, beat 1, but the vocals are behind a beat or so. I can re-import the BiaB backing track files into the DAW and they are in sync with the vocals. But I can't import the same vocals into BiaB.
Know this is something stupid I'm just doing wrong, and have my dunce cap standing by.
THANKS in advance for any assist!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
DrDan, well, in prior years you would be correct. But since I want to CHANGE my workflow (which is currently the one you suggest) so that I do MORE in BiaB and LESS in my DAW, THEN...I'd like to try it with an existing song. Frankly, the new features in BiaB are exciting enough to make me want to try a different workflow, and it's been a long, LONG time since that's happened...
So I'll gladly engage the joke responses to get there.
My dunce cap is still at the ready, but not because I shouldn't be exploring a new workflow...
Ha!(?)
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
DrDan, well, in prior years you would be correct. But since I want to CHANGE my workflow (which is currently the one you suggest) so that I do MORE in BiaB and LESS in my DAW, THEN...I'd like to try it with an existing song. Frankly, the new features in BiaB are exciting enough to make me want to try a different workflow, and it's been a long, LONG time since that's happened...
So I'll gladly engage the joke responses to get there.
My dunce cap is still at the ready, but not because I shouldn't be exploring a new workflow...
Ha!(?)
Hi Ron,
Since BIAB began allowing for the partial regeneration of Realtracks, I also import the vocal into BIAB and use partial regeneration to create better realtracks that sit more comfortably with the vocal line. It's brilliant. In the past, I used to do a heap of work in the DAW. Now, I just send a rough instrumental track to the DAW so that I can prepare the vocals. Then, when I have the vocals sitting reasonably well, I put them into BIAB and refine things there. Then I send the final tracks to the DAW for polishing. It's a much quicker workflow to do it this way.
When you import the vocal into your DAW, you may need to time shift since BIAB has two count in bars. I have Reaper set so that it has two blank bars and matches BIAB. When you come to the menu that gives you the import locations, click on "Reset to zero" so that the audio is imported to bar 1.
Hi, Noel! Yes, your workflow is exactly what I'm trying for. "Brilliant" is my objective.
Since I've incorporated the two bar BiaB count in to my DAW vocal track (which is synced with imported BiaB tracks), my BiaB import settings SHOULD be chorus 1, bar -1 (bar -1 is the first bar of the count in, bar 0 is the 2nd bar) and beat 1. But this isn't working. The vocals are coming in about a beat late. I've also "reset to zero" in addition to countless other combinations of bars and beats over the last couple of hours.
Like I said, it's something stupid. I'm just too stupid to figure out what.
THANK YOU for the workflow input and help!
Ron
Last edited by DC Ron; 01/04/2406:36 PM.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
For the song in question, do the vocals begin before, on or after beat 1 of bar 1 (bar 1 is the one that immediately follows the count-in). If you have a look at the audio track in the Audio Edit window, you will be able to see the timing of the audio file in relation to BIAB's bars. Also, have you set BIAB time signature and tempo to exactly match the DAW in which the vocal was recorded?
For the song in question, do the vocals begin before, on or after beat 1 of bar 1 (bar 1 is the one that immediately follows the count-in). If you have a look at the audio track in the Audio Edit window, you will be able to see the timing of the audio file in relation to BIAB's bars. Also, have you set BIAB time signature and tempo to exactly match the DAW in which the vocal was recorded?
--Noel
Noel, the vocal track starts with bar -1, the first beat of the BiaB count in. The actual vocal comes in about bar 10. Yes, BiaB has the same time signature (4/4) and tempo (118 BPM) as the DAW. The confounding part to me is the BiaB tracks import to the DAW perfectly, and sync with the vocal track, but the vocal track will not import to BiaB. Like I said, it's a stupid mistake on my part, and I'm just too stupid to solve it...
THANK YOU for the response!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Hi, Noel! Yes, your workflow is exactly what I'm trying for. "Brilliant" is my objective.
I've found that I'm getting better results now. In the past, I copied and pasted sections of track in Reaper to make corrections to a the track. Now with partial regeneration, I can try numerous possibilities before settling on the one that I like best. Regeneration also makes it possible to find suits instrumental riffs that have potential to be used as a instrumental hooks. Partial regeneration and working with the vocal in BIAB has unleashed a whole new world of possibilities.
This is just my 2¢ worth I'm sure that other people will do things differently.
Noel, the vocal track starts with bar -1, the first beat of the BiaB count in. The actual vocal comes in about bar 10. Yes, BiaB has the same time signature (4/4) and tempo (118 BPM) as the DAW. The confounding part to me is the BiaB tracks import to the DAW perfectly, and sync with the vocal track, but the vocal track will not import to BiaB. Like I said, it's a stupid mistake on my part, and I'm just too stupid to solve it...
THANK YOU for the response! Ron,
I guessing here so I might be wrong. From the above information, though, it sounds like you might have started recording the vocal a bar or so before you started singing. If the recording had started at bar -1, it should line up with BIAB as it would have 10 bars of recording with no sound.
I just loaded a vocal created with Synth V that starts two bars before the 4-bar introduction. This means that my vocal recording has 6 bars of blank recording (the vocal starts on beat 1 of bar 5 in BIAB. Allowing for BIAB's bars -1 and 0 (count-in), I need to import my vocal at CHORUS 1 (since I use a single chorus, linear layout), Bar -1, Beat 1.
If I had started recording at Bar 6, though. This means that I haven't allowed for BIAB's count-in bars nor the introduction, then I would need to import the vocal to...
CHORUS# = 1 BAR# = 6 BEAT# = 1
What I suggest you do is to load the vocal into the Audio Track and then have a look at it in "Audio Edit". You will be able to see how it lines up. You will also be able adjust the track by inserting silence or cutting blank space.
Page 247 of the user manuat has a detailed explanation of Audio Edit and how to use it.
Noel, since my vocal audio track starts at the same time as the count in, it should import correctly with exactly the same 1 -1 1 0 import settings you show. But it does not. Know I can move the audio around manually, but...I'd like to put more time into getting the import function to work correctly first.
Have also tried dozen of other import settings with no improvement.
Anyway, THANKS again for thinking about this with me. Helps a lot!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Update: Tried to import vocals into another BiaB file using the same steps and it worked perfectly. Still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong on this particular song though...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
When the faulty vocal is loaded, did you have a look in the Audio Edit window? You'll be able to see what the problem is by where the wave visually sits.
My vocals just loaded in 2 bars too late, as well. They worked fine earlier in the day now, though, they're late. I'll report it to the development team.
You should be able to use Audio Edit to adjust the wav so that it sits where you want it. The process will be a variation of the below process that I used to move my wav 2 bars to the left.
1) Import the wav file.
2) Select Audio Edit.
3) When in Audio Edit, click on "Snap" (#1 on the image).
4) Make sure Audio is selectect (#2).
5) I need to delete 2 bars to bring everything into alignment, so I select 2 bars where no sound wave is present by dragging the mouse (#3).
6) Under the "Edit" menu (#4), I then select "Delete" and blank bars will be removed and the audio is brought forward 2 bars.
Noel, yes, I can see the timing offset. It is delayed about a beat though I didn't measure it. Thanks for the detailed example of how to shift the vocal track by deleting empty space. Need to take a break but will try that out in a while. Thanks AGAIN for all the advice!! Ron
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
With "snap" on, when you drag a selection it will lock to 1/4 of a beat (i.e. 1/16th notes) in EV time sigs and 1/3 of a beat (i.e. a triplet 1/8th note) in SW time sigs. That might help. If you need to work with fractions of a beat, click the snap off. If you want to zoom in or out, use the scroll wheel on the mouse. By clicking on the region where the wav image is located, you will set the position of a red vertical cursor. By zooming in and using this cursor, you will be able to more accurately gauge how far out of position the wav is.
Ron and others that run into this issue, BIAB has a feature to align audio in the Audio Edit Window. Place the Red Curser where you want the first beat of the audio to be, Rt. Click anywhere and select 'Mark this as bar 1 ... '
This aligns the curser and the audio beat one correctly.
Ok, have done more testing and it is not a timing offset issue, it is a time stretching issue that is happening inside BiaB when I import my stereo audio file. Here is an image from my DAW of the correct audio file (top) and the BiaB imported audio file (bottom). As you can see, the audio starts late, but the offset increases over time. So when I manually correct the timing offset at the beginning, it continues to lag more and more over time. The audio is in the proper key, but it has (somehow) been stretched.
Also...I imported a previous mix of the entire song, which is 118 BPM, into BiaB and ran the ACW Auto Analysis, and it mapped the song as 120 BPM. Hmmm.
Anyway, I don't have a solution, just laying out some interesting findings...
THANKS to those who have pitched in so far!
Last edited by DC Ron; 01/05/2407:32 AM. Reason: mistakes
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Ok, have done more testing and it is not a timing offset issue, it is a time stretching issue that is happening inside BiaB when I import my stereo audio file. Here is an image from my DAW of the correct audio file (top) and the BiaB imported audio file (bottom). As you can see, the audio starts late, but the offset increases over time. So when I manually correct the timing offset at the beginning, it continues to lag more and more over time. The audio is in the proper key, but it has (somehow) been stretched.
Also...I imported a previous mix of the entire song, which is 118 BPM, into BiaB and ran the ACW Auto Analysis, and it mapped the song as 120 BPM. Hmmm.
Anyway, I don't have a solution, just laying out some interesting findings...
THANKS to those who have pitched in so far!
I'm not sure you're correct. It looks like your screen shot is taken from Studio One? If that's not correct, it still appears to be taken from the DAW you use.
If that's correct, there's an issue with your conclusion. It seems you're saying the bottom audio file imported into your DAW from BIAB is the time-stretched audio done by the ACW. If that's correct, then yes, it is expected behavior for there to be an offset that changes over time. BIAB rounds bpm to a whole whereas DAWs are quite a bit more accurate. It appears to me in the screen shot the waves reach a certain level of offset and stabilize and I attribute that to be from BIAB wav being time stretched to a different bpm and also to the inherit difference of the DAW tempo accuracy to BIAB's rounded tempo.
I'll only comment on the BIAB images posted earlier and that is a timing offset, or import placement issue. Doesn't matter which, the fix is the same. If the ACW does an accurate analysis, whether manual or not, or even if it's not accurate, the BIAB Chord sheet should accurately follow the tempo template the ACW creates.
Charlie, I'm going to summarize in CAPS for those who are skimming this. THIS IS AN ISSUE WITH TIME STRETCHING DURING AUDIO IMPORT, NOT AUDIO PLACEMENT DURING IMPORT.
Back to your note. Yes, I say "Here is an image from my DAW..." which is Studio One. The top track is the vocal audio file I imported into BiaB. The bottom track is the same audio file after I dragged it back out of BiaB. The bottom track has (apparently) been stretched by BiaB. That's the only conclusion I've drawn.
The ACW paragraph was just an independent excursion to see if the entire track (not just the vocal track) was correctly interpreted as 118 BPM by BiaB. It was not. If this is normal as you say I'm surprised, but it doesn't impact my issue as I did not use any ACW settings whatsoever. I just analyzed the song file and then closed without saving. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.
THANKS for the assist! Still searching...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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