I recently wrote to PG support explaining that the import MIDI dialog has "include lyrics" but it doesn't work. A MIDI file with lyrics will not import lyrics in BIAB using this checkbox. Likewise you cannot export a MIDI file (with lyrics) from BIAB.
Clearly, because of the checkbox, BIAB presumes to already have the feature of handling lyrics in a MIDI file, a capability possessed by dozens of other programs (Studio One, Reaper, Sibelius, Musescore, Synthezer V, and so forth.) MIDI protocol has a place where lyrics are expected to be, and while other programs seem to recognize this, something is missing in BIAB, and so it is not able to freely work in interchange with these other programs, which I would like to do.
Anyway, after an exchange of emails, tech support suggested I put the issue in the Wishlist. I wrote back and said "As I understand it, a Wishlist is for new features not currently in the program. I didn't think it was for features currently assumed to be in the program but not working, ie a bug."
So is it a legitimate entry in the wishlist to say "I wish you would fix this bug?" Shouldn't there be another way to report such things in a reliable standard way? I was hoping to get an answer to a workaround to the issue, or at least an admission that the feature doesn't work and they will work on it. (Or at least remove the checkbox which implies they have the feature.)
I love BIAB and tech support is very quick to respond, so I am not complaining, but just wonder if others have had problems with not understanding this distinction.
Last edited by Andrew - PG Music; 01/13/2401:01 PM. Reason: Updated thread title
I guess it depends who you get. I messaged them a few weeks ago asking when partial regeneration for realdrums would be working. I was told it's not possible for realdrums, so had to point out it was being sold as a new feature for the 2024 version ... which didn't work Thankfully I think it's been fixed in the 1108 update.
I recently wrote to PG support explaining that the import MIDI dialog has "include lyrics" but it doesn't work. A MIDI file with lyrics will not import lyrics in BIAB using this checkbox. Likewise you cannot export a MIDI file (with lyrics) from BIAB.
Clearly, because of the checkbox, BIAB presumes to already have the feature of handling lyrics in a MIDI file, a capability possessed by dozens of other programs (Studio One, Reaper, Sibelius, Musescore, Synthezer V, and so forth.) MIDI protocol has a place where lyrics are expected to be, and while other programs seem to recognize this, something is missing in BIAB, and so it is not able to freely work in interchange with these other programs, which I would like to do.
Anyway, after an exchange of emails, tech support suggested I put the issue in the Wishlist. I wrote back and said "As I understand it, a Wishlist is for new features not currently in the program. I didn't think it was for features currently assumed to be in the program but not working, ie a bug."
So is it a legitimate entry in the wishlist to say "I wish you would fix this bug?" Shouldn't there be another way to report such things in a reliable standard way? I was hoping to get an answer to a workaround to the issue, or at least an admission that the feature doesn't work and they will work on it. (Or at least remove the checkbox which implies they have the feature.)
I love BIAB and tech support is very quick to respond, so I am not complaining, but just wonder if others have had problems with not understanding this distinction.
You are correct. A bug is when the software claims to have the ability but does not produce the expected results. A Feature Request as more commonly called in the software world, is when you expected it to work a certain way, but it doesn't meet your expectations, however the developer coded it to work a slightly different way from your expectations. So, a feature request or wish list as they call it here is in alignment with your expectations and the developer's expectations.
The support person should have recorded it as a bug.
But give the exact steps here so that people can confirm your bug
Description:
Steps to reproduce: 1) 2) etc. Expected results:
Actual Results:
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Goal: to exchange midi files with lyrics in and out of BIAB with other programs that involve lyrics, such as Synthesizer V, Sibelius, Musescore, Studio One, etc.
Experiment 1: 1- Open file 2 in any program that handles lyrics with MIDI (except BIAB) and you will see that the lyrics appear correctly. 2- Import file 2 into BIAB and you will not get the lyrics, even if you check the option to “include lyrics.”
Experiment 2: 1- Open file 1 in BIAB and see the melody track notation has the note-based lyrics correctly attached to each note. 2- Export the file out of BIAB as MIDI, and open it in any other program that handles lyrics with MIDI. 3- You will not find lyrics were exported by BIAB. In almost all programs the BIAB MIDI has notes and nothing else. In one program only, Sibelius, the lyrics from BIAB are printed as staff text, which shows that BIAB is putting lyrics in the wrong MIDI place for most programs to recognize.
Experiment 3: 1) As a workaround, export File 1 from BIAB as music XML instead of MIDI. 2) Open the XML in Sibelius and you will find that the BIAB note-based-lyrics are now exported correctly, and in the right place. Studio One will not even open a BIAB XML file, and Synthesizer V does not have XML import, but you can use Sibelius as a bridge, exporting the BIAB XML file to Sibelius, then saving it as MIDI in Sibelius, then import in Synthesizer V and you finally get the lyrics all the way from BIAB to Synthesizer V in a cumbersome three-stage process. 3) If you don’t own Sibelius, you can use the free online xml converter at https://sdercolin.github.io/utaformatix3/ and convert the file to Synthesizer V format, and that also works.
Experiment 3 shows a promising workaround for half the problem, ie getting lyrics OUT of BIAB into Synthesizer V. It also shows that BIAB seems to know what are lyrics, because they put them in the right place in XML, but it doesn’t know how to place them correctly in MIDI.
Experiment 4: trying to get Lyrics INTO BIAB, using the checkbox “include lyrics” 1) All experiments fail, either using XML or MIDI
It is important to get lyrics in and out of BIAB in both directions. This is not a trivial issue for a growing number of users of Synthesizer V. It has one of the longest threads and active discussions on VI Control, and many are keen to incorporate BIAB in their workflow, especially after I posted two examples of using BIAB to automatically generate vocal melodies to be sung by Synthesizer V here.
Both the above tracks were made instantaneously by letting BIAB generate the harmonies for the vocals (as well as the backing.) But I had to re-type all the lyrics into Synthesizer V if I wanted to go back and forth between BIAB.
Conclusion: BIAB needs to both IMPORT and EXPORT lyrics in its MIDI files, preferably without the need to use XML as an intermediate bridge.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong and someone knows how I can do this already?
Hi Thomas, excellent points that you have raised, but I was more amazed at your five-part harmony song, with matching lyrics. Sensational and humorous to boot
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
For this issue, of course, it doesn't matter which voices are used, but to know which ones I have, they are Women - Natalie, Solaria, Sheena, Mai, and Men - Hayden, Kevin, Jun, Asterian.
In the examples above I only used Hayden and Kevin for the 5-part harmony, and only Hayden, Kevin, Solaria and Natalie for "You Are My Sunshine." For a bigger choir sound I use all the singers I have on different parts. For example here is an arrangement I made using all the singers in the same track:
Yes, thanks was just curious as I have been thinking about buying a few. Thanks Just had a chance to listen to your last song and it sounds like you have really mastered that tool! Your song should be on synth V's website. So obviously you recommend it? Good Job!
Women [/u] - Natalie, - Solaria, - Sheena, -Mai, and Men - Hayden, -Kevin, - Jun,- -Asterian.
Which two do you recommend getting started?
Last edited by jpettit; 01/06/2412:38 AM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Thanks for providing the step by step instructions, I've tried to replicate, here are my results:
Originally Posted by ThomasS
Experiment 1: 1- Open file 2 in any program that handles lyrics with MIDI (except BIAB) and you will see that the lyrics appear correctly. 2- Import file 2 into BIAB and you will not get the lyrics, even if you check the option to “include lyrics.”
Confirmed. If I open file 2 into BIAB I can see the lyrics, but if I import the midi file into an existing projetc, lyrics wont be imported.
Quote
Experiment 2: 1- Open file 1 in BIAB and see the melody track notation has the note-based lyrics correctly attached to each note. 2- Export the file out of BIAB as MIDI, and open it in any other program that handles lyrics with MIDI. 3- You will not find lyrics were exported by BIAB. In almost all programs the BIAB MIDI has notes and nothing else. In one program only, Sibelius, the lyrics from BIAB are printed as staff text, which shows that BIAB is putting lyrics in the wrong MIDI place for most programs to recognize.
I cannot replicate. If I export file as MIDI and open that MIDi file, that is what I get in Musescore 4:
Other MIDI players (for example the old vanbasco karaoke player) work also fine.
Quote
Experiment 3: 1) As a workaround, export File 1 from BIAB as music XML instead of MIDI. 2) Open the XML in Sibelius and you will find that the BIAB note-based-lyrics are now exported correctly, and in the right place. Studio One will not even open a BIAB XML file, and Synthesizer V does not have XML import, but you can use Sibelius as a bridge, exporting the BIAB XML file to Sibelius, then saving it as MIDI in Sibelius, then import in Synthesizer V and you finally get the lyrics all the way from BIAB to Synthesizer V in a cumbersome three-stage process. 3) If you don’t own Sibelius, you can use the free online xml converter at https://sdercolin.github.io/utaformatix3/ and convert the file to Synthesizer V format, and that also works.
Confirmed, this is what I get after opening the XML file with Musescore 4 (the melody should be on the piano track, but I had to export all tracks, because otherwise the results were still worst):
Anyway, exporting to mxml has never worked properly for me.
Quote
Experiment 4: trying to get Lyrics INTO BIAB, using the checkbox “include lyrics” 1) All experiments fail, either using XML or MIDI
Not sure about this. Could you please elaborate?
Edit: btw, very funny demos, those vocal sytnhs sound impressive, and the chord prorgression is great too. Congratulations!
Thanks for the files. I completed Experiment 1 and didn't encounter any issue with BIAB displaying the lyrics.
I don't use exterior midi programs or XML files so I made no attempt to export with lyrics and didn't do the other three experiments. Sorry. I don't have any program to test these.
Based on your investigations, here is what has been discovered:
1) There is a difference between IMPORT and OPEN a MIDI file in BIAB. I have been using IMPORT, which doesn't get lyrics, confirmed by both Cerio and me. I was only using IMPORT, and I didn't realize that you could directly open a midi file. (this has drawbacks - see below)
2) There is a difference in the way BIAB MIDI exports are received by other programs. MuseScore seems to be the best as far as lyrics are concerned. Sibelius not good, since it gets the lyrics as staff text, and Synthezer V gets no lyrics. Therefore, I should get the free version of MuseScore to use as a bridging program to get lyrics from BIAB to Synthesizer V.
3) There is a difference in the way BIAB Music XML files are received by other programs. Sibelius imports them perfectly, whereas MuseScore doesn't. Hence Sibelius is great for XML and Musescore for MIDI, but not the other way around. Very strange, so there must be different standards and versions of MIDI and XML protocols, I guess.
Through a combination of programs it seems possible to get lyrics in and out of BIAB, but with one major drawback. If you want to go back and forth between the two programs, as you are writing and developing an arrangement, if you save a Synthesizer V file as MIDI you cannot get it back into the ORIGINAL SONG you have been working on in BIAB. You have to have to make a new song file, which doesn't have the chords and realtracks you had before. I suppose you could make a copy of the chords and paste them into the new file as a workaround (and load the style.) But then you could also make a copy of the lyrics first (in Synthesizer V) and IMPORT (instead of OPEN) into the original BIAB song, and you would have the melody (without lyrics) to generate instant harmonies. Then when you send it back to Synthesizer, you would have to paste the lyrics you copied before the first step. In other words, you will have to copy something and paste it back either way. Either copy the chords for re-entry in BIAB, or copy the lyrics for re-entry in Synth V.
I hope this is not too confusing for you! Anyway, thank you for finding some more possibilities, like getting MuseScore and using OPEN in BIAB. One thing I found interesting in using OPEN, is that BIAB tries to make a chord sheet for a melody that has no chords. It tries as intelligently as it can to figure out what possible chords would work against your melody. They are not what you intended, but interesting nonetheless.
I really like Synthesizer V, and would like to make more BIAB automatic harmonies with it for songs, so this will ultimately be a workflow that a lot of people will appreciate. The test song I made (5-Part Harmony) was just to see how intelligent BIAB is, so I used lots of chords and key changes, and stuff to see how well it knew what to do with non-chordal notes, passing tones, and scale alterations in transposed sections. It did extremely well, and I am impressed. The lyrics I typed in were just for fun.
Cerio, are you going to report the confirmed bug and two workflow gaps?
@ThomasS that answers your question "What is the difference between a bug and a wish list" The bug is marginal because you have an option to do it another way, albeit inconvenient. All your issues are examples of the customer having an expectation of consistent workflow/standards to and from BIAB, that's not currently being delivered by BIAB.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
ThomasS, I don’t work with lyrics in BIAB but I can comment on your statement, “ Very strange, so there must be different standards and versions of MIDI and XML protocols, I guess.”
The MIDI standard is very old now (MIDI II is just getting started). Implementation of the MIDI standard should be pretty tight at this point. Music XML is much newer. The standard is pretty well established but there are often errors in implementation, either saving or loading. One reason for that is that Music XML attempts to include more info than MIDI. For example, you should get not only notes but text, titles, dynamic and performance markings, and most notably, chords.
I’ve reported some chords that were encoded incorrectly by BIAB, or are unsupported. In other cases such as a 7alt chord, it’s a coin flip as to who defines the notes in that chord.
I did a study several years ago of all the music notation software to see which did good jobs importing Music XML from BIAB. MuseScore 3 was the clear winner. Not only that, but it has the best error handling. It will give you a clue if the file cannot be imported. Most notation programs just crash.
So yes, it’s not the standard, so much as the implementation.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to investigate this. I didn't realize that not all MIDI standards are equal, and not all Music XML are either. So it must be impossible for any program, not just BIAB, to be completely compatible with every other program in every respect if this is the case.
I also was impressed by the capability of MuseScore in these tests, so I just downloaded it and may be able to use it for certain needs.
My summary:
1- Through various methods it now is possible to get lyrics out of BIAB and into Synthesizer V. 2- It is only slightly possible, and not ideal, to get lyrics out of Synthesizer V and into BIAB because there is a difference between opening a MIDI file, as opposed to importing the MIDI file into an existing BIAB song. The latter is much more important for a proper workflow, and it seems like it should be possible for import to function the same as open. If not, it would be a good idea to remove the "include lyrics" checkbox in MIDI import (since it doesn't work) but keep it in the open MIDI options.
Yes, thanks was just curious as I have been thinking about buying a few. Which two do you recommend getting started?
My recommendation for starting out with Synthesizer V is that it depends on the style of music you like, and whether you want men or women or both.
-If you want two Women - get Solaria and Natalie -If you want two Men - get any two of Hayden, Saros, Kevin -If you want just one Male and one Female - most people would likely say Solaria & either Hayden or Saros at this time. -Jun, Sheena, Mai, and Ninezero are the least useful for starting out, but can be added later if you want a choir. -Asterian is essential if you want to make a proper SATB choir, because he is the only voice who can sing the low bass notes. However he is limited as a soloist (except for classical or music theater) so not recommended if you just want two voices.
Thank you for the information. It’s very helpful. I’ve been scoping out the product for several months now, and will go with your advice for the first male and female.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26921&filename=Exported%20MID%20file.jpg)
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26922&filename=Exported%20XML%20file.jpg)
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean