I recently wrote to PG support explaining that the import MIDI dialog has "include lyrics" but it doesn't work. A MIDI file with lyrics will not import lyrics in BIAB using this checkbox. Likewise you cannot export a MIDI file (with lyrics) from BIAB.
Clearly, because of the checkbox, BIAB presumes to already have the feature of handling lyrics in a MIDI file, a capability possessed by dozens of other programs (Studio One, Reaper, Sibelius, Musescore, Synthezer V, and so forth.) MIDI protocol has a place where lyrics are expected to be, and while other programs seem to recognize this, something is missing in BIAB, and so it is not able to freely work in interchange with these other programs, which I would like to do.
Anyway, after an exchange of emails, tech support suggested I put the issue in the Wishlist. I wrote back and said "As I understand it, a Wishlist is for new features not currently in the program. I didn't think it was for features currently assumed to be in the program but not working, ie a bug."
So is it a legitimate entry in the wishlist to say "I wish you would fix this bug?" Shouldn't there be another way to report such things in a reliable standard way? I was hoping to get an answer to a workaround to the issue, or at least an admission that the feature doesn't work and they will work on it. (Or at least remove the checkbox which implies they have the feature.)
I love BIAB and tech support is very quick to respond, so I am not complaining, but just wonder if others have had problems with not understanding this distinction.
Last edited by Andrew - PG Music; 01/13/2401:01 PM. Reason: Updated thread title
I guess it depends who you get. I messaged them a few weeks ago asking when partial regeneration for realdrums would be working. I was told it's not possible for realdrums, so had to point out it was being sold as a new feature for the 2024 version ... which didn't work Thankfully I think it's been fixed in the 1108 update.
I recently wrote to PG support explaining that the import MIDI dialog has "include lyrics" but it doesn't work. A MIDI file with lyrics will not import lyrics in BIAB using this checkbox. Likewise you cannot export a MIDI file (with lyrics) from BIAB.
Clearly, because of the checkbox, BIAB presumes to already have the feature of handling lyrics in a MIDI file, a capability possessed by dozens of other programs (Studio One, Reaper, Sibelius, Musescore, Synthezer V, and so forth.) MIDI protocol has a place where lyrics are expected to be, and while other programs seem to recognize this, something is missing in BIAB, and so it is not able to freely work in interchange with these other programs, which I would like to do.
Anyway, after an exchange of emails, tech support suggested I put the issue in the Wishlist. I wrote back and said "As I understand it, a Wishlist is for new features not currently in the program. I didn't think it was for features currently assumed to be in the program but not working, ie a bug."
So is it a legitimate entry in the wishlist to say "I wish you would fix this bug?" Shouldn't there be another way to report such things in a reliable standard way? I was hoping to get an answer to a workaround to the issue, or at least an admission that the feature doesn't work and they will work on it. (Or at least remove the checkbox which implies they have the feature.)
I love BIAB and tech support is very quick to respond, so I am not complaining, but just wonder if others have had problems with not understanding this distinction.
You are correct. A bug is when the software claims to have the ability but does not produce the expected results. A Feature Request as more commonly called in the software world, is when you expected it to work a certain way, but it doesn't meet your expectations, however the developer coded it to work a slightly different way from your expectations. So, a feature request or wish list as they call it here is in alignment with your expectations and the developer's expectations.
The support person should have recorded it as a bug.
But give the exact steps here so that people can confirm your bug
Description:
Steps to reproduce: 1) 2) etc. Expected results:
Actual Results:
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Goal: to exchange midi files with lyrics in and out of BIAB with other programs that involve lyrics, such as Synthesizer V, Sibelius, Musescore, Studio One, etc.
Experiment 1: 1- Open file 2 in any program that handles lyrics with MIDI (except BIAB) and you will see that the lyrics appear correctly. 2- Import file 2 into BIAB and you will not get the lyrics, even if you check the option to “include lyrics.”
Experiment 2: 1- Open file 1 in BIAB and see the melody track notation has the note-based lyrics correctly attached to each note. 2- Export the file out of BIAB as MIDI, and open it in any other program that handles lyrics with MIDI. 3- You will not find lyrics were exported by BIAB. In almost all programs the BIAB MIDI has notes and nothing else. In one program only, Sibelius, the lyrics from BIAB are printed as staff text, which shows that BIAB is putting lyrics in the wrong MIDI place for most programs to recognize.
Experiment 3: 1) As a workaround, export File 1 from BIAB as music XML instead of MIDI. 2) Open the XML in Sibelius and you will find that the BIAB note-based-lyrics are now exported correctly, and in the right place. Studio One will not even open a BIAB XML file, and Synthesizer V does not have XML import, but you can use Sibelius as a bridge, exporting the BIAB XML file to Sibelius, then saving it as MIDI in Sibelius, then import in Synthesizer V and you finally get the lyrics all the way from BIAB to Synthesizer V in a cumbersome three-stage process. 3) If you don’t own Sibelius, you can use the free online xml converter at https://sdercolin.github.io/utaformatix3/ and convert the file to Synthesizer V format, and that also works.
Experiment 3 shows a promising workaround for half the problem, ie getting lyrics OUT of BIAB into Synthesizer V. It also shows that BIAB seems to know what are lyrics, because they put them in the right place in XML, but it doesn’t know how to place them correctly in MIDI.
Experiment 4: trying to get Lyrics INTO BIAB, using the checkbox “include lyrics” 1) All experiments fail, either using XML or MIDI
It is important to get lyrics in and out of BIAB in both directions. This is not a trivial issue for a growing number of users of Synthesizer V. It has one of the longest threads and active discussions on VI Control, and many are keen to incorporate BIAB in their workflow, especially after I posted two examples of using BIAB to automatically generate vocal melodies to be sung by Synthesizer V here.
Both the above tracks were made instantaneously by letting BIAB generate the harmonies for the vocals (as well as the backing.) But I had to re-type all the lyrics into Synthesizer V if I wanted to go back and forth between BIAB.
Conclusion: BIAB needs to both IMPORT and EXPORT lyrics in its MIDI files, preferably without the need to use XML as an intermediate bridge.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong and someone knows how I can do this already?
Hi Thomas, excellent points that you have raised, but I was more amazed at your five-part harmony song, with matching lyrics. Sensational and humorous to boot
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
For this issue, of course, it doesn't matter which voices are used, but to know which ones I have, they are Women - Natalie, Solaria, Sheena, Mai, and Men - Hayden, Kevin, Jun, Asterian.
In the examples above I only used Hayden and Kevin for the 5-part harmony, and only Hayden, Kevin, Solaria and Natalie for "You Are My Sunshine." For a bigger choir sound I use all the singers I have on different parts. For example here is an arrangement I made using all the singers in the same track:
Yes, thanks was just curious as I have been thinking about buying a few. Thanks Just had a chance to listen to your last song and it sounds like you have really mastered that tool! Your song should be on synth V's website. So obviously you recommend it? Good Job!
Women [/u] - Natalie, - Solaria, - Sheena, -Mai, and Men - Hayden, -Kevin, - Jun,- -Asterian.
Which two do you recommend getting started?
Last edited by jpettit; 01/06/2412:38 AM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Thanks for providing the step by step instructions, I've tried to replicate, here are my results:
Originally Posted by ThomasS
Experiment 1: 1- Open file 2 in any program that handles lyrics with MIDI (except BIAB) and you will see that the lyrics appear correctly. 2- Import file 2 into BIAB and you will not get the lyrics, even if you check the option to “include lyrics.”
Confirmed. If I open file 2 into BIAB I can see the lyrics, but if I import the midi file into an existing projetc, lyrics wont be imported.
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Experiment 2: 1- Open file 1 in BIAB and see the melody track notation has the note-based lyrics correctly attached to each note. 2- Export the file out of BIAB as MIDI, and open it in any other program that handles lyrics with MIDI. 3- You will not find lyrics were exported by BIAB. In almost all programs the BIAB MIDI has notes and nothing else. In one program only, Sibelius, the lyrics from BIAB are printed as staff text, which shows that BIAB is putting lyrics in the wrong MIDI place for most programs to recognize.
I cannot replicate. If I export file as MIDI and open that MIDi file, that is what I get in Musescore 4:
Other MIDI players (for example the old vanbasco karaoke player) work also fine.
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Experiment 3: 1) As a workaround, export File 1 from BIAB as music XML instead of MIDI. 2) Open the XML in Sibelius and you will find that the BIAB note-based-lyrics are now exported correctly, and in the right place. Studio One will not even open a BIAB XML file, and Synthesizer V does not have XML import, but you can use Sibelius as a bridge, exporting the BIAB XML file to Sibelius, then saving it as MIDI in Sibelius, then import in Synthesizer V and you finally get the lyrics all the way from BIAB to Synthesizer V in a cumbersome three-stage process. 3) If you don’t own Sibelius, you can use the free online xml converter at https://sdercolin.github.io/utaformatix3/ and convert the file to Synthesizer V format, and that also works.
Confirmed, this is what I get after opening the XML file with Musescore 4 (the melody should be on the piano track, but I had to export all tracks, because otherwise the results were still worst):
Anyway, exporting to mxml has never worked properly for me.
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Experiment 4: trying to get Lyrics INTO BIAB, using the checkbox “include lyrics” 1) All experiments fail, either using XML or MIDI
Not sure about this. Could you please elaborate?
Edit: btw, very funny demos, those vocal sytnhs sound impressive, and the chord prorgression is great too. Congratulations!
Thanks for the files. I completed Experiment 1 and didn't encounter any issue with BIAB displaying the lyrics.
I don't use exterior midi programs or XML files so I made no attempt to export with lyrics and didn't do the other three experiments. Sorry. I don't have any program to test these.
Based on your investigations, here is what has been discovered:
1) There is a difference between IMPORT and OPEN a MIDI file in BIAB. I have been using IMPORT, which doesn't get lyrics, confirmed by both Cerio and me. I was only using IMPORT, and I didn't realize that you could directly open a midi file. (this has drawbacks - see below)
2) There is a difference in the way BIAB MIDI exports are received by other programs. MuseScore seems to be the best as far as lyrics are concerned. Sibelius not good, since it gets the lyrics as staff text, and Synthezer V gets no lyrics. Therefore, I should get the free version of MuseScore to use as a bridging program to get lyrics from BIAB to Synthesizer V.
3) There is a difference in the way BIAB Music XML files are received by other programs. Sibelius imports them perfectly, whereas MuseScore doesn't. Hence Sibelius is great for XML and Musescore for MIDI, but not the other way around. Very strange, so there must be different standards and versions of MIDI and XML protocols, I guess.
Through a combination of programs it seems possible to get lyrics in and out of BIAB, but with one major drawback. If you want to go back and forth between the two programs, as you are writing and developing an arrangement, if you save a Synthesizer V file as MIDI you cannot get it back into the ORIGINAL SONG you have been working on in BIAB. You have to have to make a new song file, which doesn't have the chords and realtracks you had before. I suppose you could make a copy of the chords and paste them into the new file as a workaround (and load the style.) But then you could also make a copy of the lyrics first (in Synthesizer V) and IMPORT (instead of OPEN) into the original BIAB song, and you would have the melody (without lyrics) to generate instant harmonies. Then when you send it back to Synthesizer, you would have to paste the lyrics you copied before the first step. In other words, you will have to copy something and paste it back either way. Either copy the chords for re-entry in BIAB, or copy the lyrics for re-entry in Synth V.
I hope this is not too confusing for you! Anyway, thank you for finding some more possibilities, like getting MuseScore and using OPEN in BIAB. One thing I found interesting in using OPEN, is that BIAB tries to make a chord sheet for a melody that has no chords. It tries as intelligently as it can to figure out what possible chords would work against your melody. They are not what you intended, but interesting nonetheless.
I really like Synthesizer V, and would like to make more BIAB automatic harmonies with it for songs, so this will ultimately be a workflow that a lot of people will appreciate. The test song I made (5-Part Harmony) was just to see how intelligent BIAB is, so I used lots of chords and key changes, and stuff to see how well it knew what to do with non-chordal notes, passing tones, and scale alterations in transposed sections. It did extremely well, and I am impressed. The lyrics I typed in were just for fun.
Cerio, are you going to report the confirmed bug and two workflow gaps?
@ThomasS that answers your question "What is the difference between a bug and a wish list" The bug is marginal because you have an option to do it another way, albeit inconvenient. All your issues are examples of the customer having an expectation of consistent workflow/standards to and from BIAB, that's not currently being delivered by BIAB.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
ThomasS, I don’t work with lyrics in BIAB but I can comment on your statement, “ Very strange, so there must be different standards and versions of MIDI and XML protocols, I guess.”
The MIDI standard is very old now (MIDI II is just getting started). Implementation of the MIDI standard should be pretty tight at this point. Music XML is much newer. The standard is pretty well established but there are often errors in implementation, either saving or loading. One reason for that is that Music XML attempts to include more info than MIDI. For example, you should get not only notes but text, titles, dynamic and performance markings, and most notably, chords.
I’ve reported some chords that were encoded incorrectly by BIAB, or are unsupported. In other cases such as a 7alt chord, it’s a coin flip as to who defines the notes in that chord.
I did a study several years ago of all the music notation software to see which did good jobs importing Music XML from BIAB. MuseScore 3 was the clear winner. Not only that, but it has the best error handling. It will give you a clue if the file cannot be imported. Most notation programs just crash.
So yes, it’s not the standard, so much as the implementation.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to investigate this. I didn't realize that not all MIDI standards are equal, and not all Music XML are either. So it must be impossible for any program, not just BIAB, to be completely compatible with every other program in every respect if this is the case.
I also was impressed by the capability of MuseScore in these tests, so I just downloaded it and may be able to use it for certain needs.
My summary:
1- Through various methods it now is possible to get lyrics out of BIAB and into Synthesizer V. 2- It is only slightly possible, and not ideal, to get lyrics out of Synthesizer V and into BIAB because there is a difference between opening a MIDI file, as opposed to importing the MIDI file into an existing BIAB song. The latter is much more important for a proper workflow, and it seems like it should be possible for import to function the same as open. If not, it would be a good idea to remove the "include lyrics" checkbox in MIDI import (since it doesn't work) but keep it in the open MIDI options.
Yes, thanks was just curious as I have been thinking about buying a few. Which two do you recommend getting started?
My recommendation for starting out with Synthesizer V is that it depends on the style of music you like, and whether you want men or women or both.
-If you want two Women - get Solaria and Natalie -If you want two Men - get any two of Hayden, Saros, Kevin -If you want just one Male and one Female - most people would likely say Solaria & either Hayden or Saros at this time. -Jun, Sheena, Mai, and Ninezero are the least useful for starting out, but can be added later if you want a choir. -Asterian is essential if you want to make a proper SATB choir, because he is the only voice who can sing the low bass notes. However he is limited as a soloist (except for classical or music theater) so not recommended if you just want two voices.
Thank you for the information. It’s very helpful. I’ve been scoping out the product for several months now, and will go with your advice for the first male and female.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
If you get Solaria as your first female, you will find she is very versatile. To decide which first male you would like, you should listen to each of either Hayden, Saros or Kevin, because they are quite different, and all good. Saros has a lot of different tone qualities, and can sing quite high, and is more for rock, pop. Hayden has a beautiful mellow raspy voice (sort of husky) and good for soulful country as well as very high male harmonies. Kevin is more traditional and some say a little "square" but has a very good track-cutting tone, and it is possible to make him sound like James Taylor.
Once you get good with the first two voices you will find that singers with quite different tone qualities work well for harmonies, because you can hear the distinctiveness of each so the group sounds bigger. Here is a track using four different male voices (acapella) on top of some women, and I like how I can hear the difference between tenor, baritone and bass:
In relation to Thomas's excellent advice, a number of voices are available freely in what is called 'Lite' versions. There are also some beta versions freely available. These versions do not have all the abilities of the fully-fledged versions that can use cross synthesis to sing in Japanese, English and Mandarin. The English 'lite' versions, though, give an excellent insight into how a voice will sound. Many people use these versions exclusively to create some excellent productions. They're found at...
My first voices were Natalie and Kevin. If you are interested, I used them to create a duet version of a song a wrote a few years ago. This was second ever Synth V project.
1) I loaded the MIDI file into BIAB using the Open command. This created an MGU file with the MIDI file loaded on the Melody track as a multichannel MIDI (this is standard BIAB behaviour).
2) I then used 'Save Special' to save the file as a MIDI file with the lyrics. I noticed that you mentioned that you had been unable to get BIAB to save lyrics in a MIDI file. To do this, when you get to the option regarding what format to save the MIDI, click on "Options" and make sure that "Write lyrics" in General MIDI format is selected.
I then opened the original MIDI file and the BIAB-saved MIDI file in Reaper so that I could more clearly see what was happening.
As can be seen, BIAB saves MIDI as "Text events" while the original MIDI saves the lyrics as a "Lyric" event. As Matt has already mentioned, MIDI is quite old. I don't know whether it's true or not, but I have read that in the early days of MIDI, storing lyrics was not part of the MIDI format. These days, I think text events are stored as a kind of meta-data (I'm not absolutely sure about this and I'm quite happy to be corrected).
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Also... when I save your MGU file as a MIDI file from BIAB with the MIDI options of "save harmony to individual tracks" active, things look fine. Once I load the file into Reaper, all the tracks are visible and individual.
As many long-time users of BIAB will attest to, it has often been the case the internet MIDI files are not an exact fit with BIAB because the way in which the internet files were created and saved is not exactly the same as the way BIAB works with MIDI. This would seem to be another one of those cases. The best fix, which you have already discovered is to open the file in BIAB and then save it using BIAB. This will create a version of the file that is the most compatible with the BIAB.
I'm not sure that this helps but, hopefully, the insight shown in the above images is useful.
Regards, --Noel
P.S. I love your version of "Try to Remember"! It has a "Swingle Singers" sound about it. That's pretty incredible
When it comes to working with MIDI harmonies, Realband is superior to Band In A Box. You have access to running MGU files as well as the tools available in BIAB. The big difference is that Realband will automatically put generated harmony on it's own tracks where it's easier to save the files for use with Synth V.
If you haven't already experimented and tamed Realband, I encourage you to try this. It will definitely streamline creating MIDI harmonies for Synth V.
1) Start Realband and click on the Tracks View. It's on the top row of icons and to the right of 'Copy' and 'Cut'.
2) Open "File 1 - All of Me.MGU".
3) RB will generate the tracks. It's a little slower than BIAB because the tracks are generated fully before playback begins.
4) Stop the automatic playback The Stop button is on the bottom left of the screen with the other transport buttons.
5) Click on the Melody track. Press CTRL+A to select it all.
6) Under the Generate menu at the top of the window, select "Generate MIDI harmony". Select a harmony... I used #50
7) When the option window appears, select "Put harmonies onto multiple new tracks".
8) To save each of the generated MIDI harmony tracks to a file...
Click on the track.
Press CTRL+A to select the whole track.
Right click on the selected track and right at the bottom of the menu that appears, select "Track" and then "Save track to file".
For the file type, select "MIDI" and give the file a name.
I just did this and the files imported into Synth V perfectly.
1) Yes, RealBand is superior to BIAB in creating harmonies for use in Synthesizer, and this was already pointed out by other users on the Synthesizer V forum. But this excludes Mac users, since RealBand is only Windows.
2) But I was really interested to see your careful analysis of how BIAB gets the lyrics from MIDI and then exports them as text events, instead of lyric events. You have really put your finger on the problem! Do you know if there is a midi utility program that can search&replace event types in a file, ie change all text events to lyric events?
3) If you know of such a program, let me know, and I will search around myself too. In any case, what you found is quite interesting because it confirms that BIAB has all the information it needs to both import and export, but it just stores the lyrics it gets in the wrong place. This makes me think that it can be easily fixed.
take = reaper.MIDIEditor_GetTake(reaper.MIDIEditor_GetActive()) index = reaper.MIDI_EnumSelTextSysexEvts(take, -1) while index > -1 do _, _, _, _, texttype, _ = reaper.MIDI_GetTextSysexEvt(take, index, nil, nil, nil, 0, "") if texttype == 1 then -- 1 = type "Text event" reaper.MIDI_SetTextSysexEvt(take, index, nil, nil, nil, 5, "", true) -- 5 = type Lyrics end index = reaper.MIDI_EnumSelTextSysexEvts(take, index) end reaper.Undo_OnStateChange2(0, "Convert text events to lyrics")
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about scripting in Reaper to be able to develop this. I can certainly access the events one by and change text to lyrics. That is quite easy and quick to do.
Midi-text-to-lyrics.zip extract and copy Midi text to lyrics.lua In Reper menu Actions > Show Action List > New Action > Load script paste in folder and open Midi text to lyrics.lua select the midi item and run script. If you open the midi in the editor and at the bottom select Text events. EDIT: this will copy the events so you will still have text events as well as lyric events. It can be all changed if need be, it's reading 1 text events and writes to 5 lyric events
-- Determine if this event is a lyric message 5 or text 1 --1 = Text --2 = Copyright --3 = Sequence/Track Name --4 = Instrument --5 = Lyric --6 = Marker --7 = Cue --8 = Program --9 = Device
I don't have Reaper (Cubase and Studio One only) so I can't use the handy utility posted by musocity.
However, HERE is a tiny Windows utility called Midi Disassembler (mididsm) which converts a MIDI file into an editable text file, or a text file back into a MIDI.
With this program, it took me just a minute or two to convert a MIDI file from BIAB which would not show the lyrics in Synthesizer V into another MIDI file which did show the lyrics. Here is what I did:
1) Install mididsm and its dependencies. 2) Run the program and choose "make text" selecting the BIAB-generated MIDI file, which displays the MIDI file in text format with a built-in notepad editor. 3) Inside the notepad editor hit replace and change "|Text" to "|Lyric" (You may not actually have to put the line in front of the words, but I did just in case the word "Text" existed elsewhere that I didn't want to change. 4) Save the text file, and then back in the program select "Make MIDI" and select the saved text file, and now you have a new MIDI file with the lyrics in the right place and it shows lyrics in Synthesizer V.
It was so simple that I was a little surprised. Now that I see what an easy thing this is to do, I think someone should report to PGMusic how trivial this is, and change BIAB MIDI export to do this automatically.
Good to here you made you own workaround to this workflow gap in BIAB.
Thanks, Thomas and Noel for a good debug and the tips on Synth V. Thanks musocity for your scripts to edit MIDI. Very productive thread.
Back to the OP Topic, the bug and workflow gaps have been documented and we are in the process of communicating them to PGM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Based on what Noel pointed out, and by my confirmed test, here is yet another workaround: Re-open the file in RealBand and export it as MIDI, and the lyrics come through. It appears RealBand exports lyrics as "lyrics" instead of "text." This is great for Windows users, but sadly not for Mac (no RealBand for them) but the one of the other methods will be fine for them.
Hi Thomas, Nice demos that you created there, enjoyed listening to them. And great work everyone sorting out the lyrics problem. We'll investigate the lyrics export/import in Band-in-a-Box further. It would be great if the process of sending a MIDI file with lyrics to Synth V was as seamless as possible.
In checking out how to make BIAB MIDI seamlessly work with Synth V, it would be great also to see why some people are having problems getting generated-harmonies (MIDI, not Audio) on to separate tracks in the exported MIDI file. The method I find sometimes works is to generate the harmony, then mute every track except the melody track, then Hit File>Save Special>MIDI>Type 1. Sometimes this will give you a MIDI file with separate tracks, and sometimes it does not, and I can't figure out why it is inconsistent. The method I find always works is to reopen the file in RealBand, which has the option, when creating MIDI harmonies, to assign each harmony part to a separate track. So RealBand is actually perfect in both its export of MIDI lyrics (not as text) as well as separate harmony tracks (needed by Synth V.)
I didn't post this issue here, because I already had a workaround, but after I posted the above demos of Synth V singing BIAB harmonies on other boards concerned with Synth V (Synthesizer V Forum, and VI-Control) several people said they bought BIAB just because of how well this feature works. But one user PM'd me and said he bought BIAB just for this purpose but couldn't get the separate tracks, and I told him about RealBand, and he said he used Mac which doesn't have a Mac version. I showed him another, more cumbersome, workaround, but it would be great if this also was quick and simple in BIAB.
I'm not sure if you saw this... A few posts up I indicate how to make sure that BIAB's MIDI harmony is saved on separate tracks. When you select the "Type 1" file, click on the "Options" butt below "Type 1" and then make sure that the "Write harmony on separate tracks" box is activated.
UPDATE: With the "All of me.MGU" file that you uploaded, I just soloed the Melody track and saved it as a Type 1 MIDI file with the "Write harmony of separate tracks" activated. The resulting Melody.mid file loaded the melody and all harmony tracks into Realband as separate tracks.
Last edited by Noel96; 01/10/2412:10 AM. Reason: added update
Thank you Noel, that solves the problem of separate tracks, and probably explains why sometimes it worked for me and other times not. I must have had it unchecked in one. So that is great, if MAC users don't have access to RealBand, then this will work for them, and also I find BIAB really fast if I just want this feature quickly to get back to Synth V.
Also, there is an option when creating the MIDI to "write the harmony to the Melody track". If that is chosen, all the harmony will be put on MIDI Channel 4 and will be no good for Synth V. If you look at Notation Editor after creating harmony with the option, you will see all the notes in the melody. Doing this cannot be undone other by CTRL+Z (Edit >>Undo) immediately after it is done, so it pays to save a backup file before creating harmony in case something goes awry.
So the bottom line... 1) DO NOT choose "Write harmony to Melody track" when choosing the harmony via ALT+F10 [Harmony >> Melody harmony (select)]. 2) Make sure the Type 1 save options are instructed to save the file with the harmony on different tracks.
I'll pass this information onto the Development Team. I think that Synth V and other vocal synths will become very popular so the process to go from BIAB to a vocal synth using MIDI should be more straightforward.
Thank you Noel, that solves the problem of separate tracks, and probably explains why sometimes it worked for me and other times not. I must have had it unchecked in one. So that is great, if MAC users don't have access to RealBand, then this will work for them, and also I find BIAB really fast if I just want this feature quickly to get back to Synth V.
Yes, the same process should work for either Mac or Windows. If you encounter a file that does not load into Synth V properly (e.g. harmonies not on separate tracks), it would be great if you could send us the file (ideally both the BB song file and MIDI file). If you don't want to share the file on the forum you could send it to support@pgmusic.com and reference this forum thread, or send it to me in a PM.
Another user of Reaper + BB + Synth-V, with little time for music... and most of it dedicated to finish a project that is not songwriting.
I can replicate the steps to export melody + harmony tracks to multiple tracks in Reaper but I saw a few things that are midway between possible bugs and expected features:
1) Setting the harmony properly, dragging the melody to the drop area and then dragging the "MID" rectangle to Reaper drops melody plus harmonies, but all in the same track (somehow expected) but also all in the same MIDI channel. Why? When hitting play BB uses channels 4,11 and 12 (if properly set both in the general options and the harmony channels A, B and C).
I would expect to have at least the 3 MIDI channels separated.
Ideally, the best thing could be to export the MIDI as separate tracks.
2) It could be ideal if someone could create the harmonies from the VST3 plugin, this has the advantage of the integrated edition (it is really the main advantage of using the DAW mode.
3) It could be less ideal but much better than the present situation if one could drag and drop harmonies from BiaB standalone to a DAW. Not as good (but I think there are other things to fix in the plugin with higher priority).
4) Finally I understand the RealBand workflow but.... too many steps for this time and age! And as Thomas S points, not valid for MAC users (not my case). I think it could be a reasonable expectation that important functions in BB have the equivalent in the plugin.
The new flexibilty to define tracks in BB 2024, combined with the "Multipicker Library" and the tracks view is great. I don't know if it is reasonable to expect that the new functionality will also work with the convenient drag'n'drop exporting or (much better) inside the plug-in. I also appreciate the efforts to directly reference the Real Tracks in Reaper without the need to actually render and copy them locally, this opens the integration to a whole new level. But at the same time I miss simple stuff.
I understand that the origin of BB was a "MIDI accompaniment program" (very good for live use back in the 90's). I also understand and appreciate the total compatibility with older files generated... 30 years ago? That's a massive plus for me. But now that BB is taking the whole songwriting process to a new dimension (now with the revolution of synthetic voices!) it could be important to streamline the functionality and workflow of important functions to be used in a DAW. In a generic external DAW, not RealBand or PowerTracks.
There are two separate (but related) issues in this thread relating to streamlining the workflow of BB with Synthesizer V:
1) Getting MIDI lyrics in and out of BB and back and forth to Synth V 2) Getting BB-generated harmonies on to separate tracks.
My understanding of the status of these issues are:
1) RealBand works perfectly for both issues, but BB does not. If BB could be aligned to the way RealBand does this that would be a great improvement.
2) Noel has explained a way for BB to export harmonies on separate tracks, but I cannot yet confirm that it works for me. I need to keep trying.
3) The only way to get lyrics in and out of BB is to either use the MIDI text converter, or Reaper users can use the script posted above. In either case it is slow and cumbersome, until BB is upgraded.
4) In the meantime, for Windows users, using RealBand will be the best solution.
There are two separate (but related) issues in this thread relating to streamlining the workflow of BB with Synthesizer V:
1) Getting MIDI lyrics in and out of BB and back and forth to Synth V 2) Getting BB-generated harmonies on to separate tracks.
My understanding of the status of these issues are:
1) RealBand works perfectly for both issues, but BB does not. If BB could be aligned to the way RealBand does this that would be a great improvement.
2) Noel has explained a way for BB to export harmonies on separate tracks, but I cannot yet confirm that it works for me. I need to keep trying.
3) The only way to get lyrics in and out of BB is to either use the MIDI text converter, or Reaper users can use the script posted above. In either case it is slow and cumbersome, until BB is upgraded.
4) In the meantime, for Windows users, using RealBand will be the best solution.
I totally agree. And I would add... If this welcome functionality (harmonies, lyrics) was available in the plug-in it could be times better! (that's the intention of having the plugin, isn't it?). I have similar feelings about Synth-V plug-in, but this is not relevant here.
1) Setting the harmony properly, dragging the melody to the drop area and then dragging the "MID" rectangle to Reaper drops melody plus harmonies, but all in the same track (somehow expected) but also all in the same MIDI channel. Why? When hitting play BB uses channels 4,11 and 12 (if properly set both in the general options and the harmony channels A, B and C).
Thanks for your interesting comments. I think this has been said earlier in the thread, but just to clarify -- I believe that most of the confusion around saving the harmonies in MIDI files is related to the concept in Band-in-a-Box of "writing the harmony to the melody track". If you *do not* select that option, then the harmony is generated in real-time and is not actually written on any track. You can save a MIDI file by pressing the MIDI button in the toolbar (file panel). If in the MIDI file options dialog you have selected "include harmony in MIDI file" (which is the default), then Band-in-a-Box will write the harmony parts to separate tracks "Harmony voice 1", "Harmony voice 2", etc. So that should be perfect for Synth V.
However, if you do the function to "write/convert the harmony to the melody track" and save the MIDI file, or you use drag and drop via the drop station, both the Melody and harmony parts are saved to the same track. Since we have Utility tracks now in Band-in-a-Box, we should probably write the harmony parts to separate utility tracks and that would avoid the problem of the parts being on the same track.
Last edited by Andrew - PG Music; 01/12/2403:16 PM.
The issue is now resolved with the update to version 1109. Midi Lyrics come in and out of BB and back and forth to Synth V perfectly. Very fast service and attention to our needs. Thank you!
Yes! It's excellent When you get a chance, could you click on the "Resolved" button in original post in this thread? That will let everyone know that the post is a worthy read because it was resolved.
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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