Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.
Last edited by Jan R; 02/06/2406:39 AM.
Thanks, Jan R.
piano: Hammond Skx Pro guitar: Ibanez LGB30 guitar amp: Boss Katana 50 MKII
Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.
As far as I could tell, the slash chord is only supposed to affect the bass note.
There is a Song Settings Option: Ignore Slash Root of Slash Chords (eg C/E), except Bass Track: If this is set, the RealTracks other than the Bass track will not play the slash root of chords. For example, the RealTracks will play C instead of C/E.
What version of BiaB are you using?
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Thanks for the tip, but B bass note with C root note in chord is not what I want. I can live with the situation that the piano chords will change and follow the slash bass notes.
Is it possible to use piano chords without the root note in case of changing the bass note?
Thanks, Jan R.
piano: Hammond Skx Pro guitar: Ibanez LGB30 guitar amp: Boss Katana 50 MKII
I am using BiaB 2024. I discovered that every time I generate th song the chords have or have not the slash bass note. So: Cm6/A have A bass note in the chord or C note as root.
Thanks, Jan R.
piano: Hammond Skx Pro guitar: Ibanez LGB30 guitar amp: Boss Katana 50 MKII
It might depend on whether you have Natural Arrangement turned on. In this progression, there is such a strong downward movement in the bass line that most musicians would recognize it in the last chord and play the A in the bass, even without the slash root. BIAB has some intelligence and does the same.
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Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.
I am not entirely sure what you are doing here, but you are playing my song. (well kinda...). So let me pipe in a little on this topic to see if I can muddy the waters a bit more.
I don't feel these chords will do justice to the arrangement. I have attached below the Rogers/Hart chordsheet. I believe the authors intended to use chord Inversions over the first four bars and not slash chords as BIAB interprets them. And yes, I am a strong believe that slash chords are different than chord inversion (we have had this discussion here in the forum in the past, and no one has conviced me otherwise). The left hand of the piano player should be playing the Root note irregardless of the inversion in the right hand.
The chart shows the left hand playing the bass note - which is the root of the chord. In this case, C over each chord. While the right hand is playing a four note chord based on the first or second inversion. I don't think a BIAB RT piano can or will play with these specific voicings either with or without the slash chords. However, I believe a midi version can to the job.
Having said this, I understand we are likely talking about what does the Bass Player do with these. BIAB RT bass will play what ever notes the artist plays when he sees the chord - which will not necessarily be what you want and certainly will not be the notes shown in the slash chord. So in terms of what the bass should play for this tune, I need to defer to our Bass Players. Perhaps one of them can weigh in on this topic.
I guess the bottom line is BIAB is not really intended to reproduce any song with specific neuances, licks, runs or motiffs. But we try anyway. I just don't feel that the / chords in BIAB help in this case. I do see the option pointed for the slash chords to only effect the bass player, but I have never used that.
Thank you for your extensive explanation. I understand. I am an amature and play music for hobby. I play piano/hammond and jazz guitar with Biab as accompanist. For piano and hammond I use the bass and drums parts, playing guitar I use bass, drums and piano parts.
Last edited by Jan R; 02/06/2411:25 AM.
Thanks, Jan R.
piano: Hammond Skx Pro guitar: Ibanez LGB30 guitar amp: Boss Katana 50 MKII
BiaB does not allow a slash note for a chord in the key signature. Not sure if this is related. For example, if the key signature was F, it will not allow F/Eb.
EDIT: Matt: Thanks for the correction. Yes F/F (it was too early in the morning here ) The above should have stated F/F.
Last edited by AudioTrack; 02/06/2406:08 PM.
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And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 02/06/2408:17 PM. Reason: The typo was fixed. No need for my prior comment.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.
Lets assume these chords were are correct (or someone thought they were). And lets assume Key of Eb (as in the chart). That gives us: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A <-- Notice this is actually a Cm69 - nice!
The bass notes of A and B are not in the Key of Eb! They would be Ab and Bb. I can only imagine how those bass notes would clash with the scale. But who knows what some jazz bass guy may comeup with.
And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.
Lets assume these chords were are correct (or someone thought they were). And lets assume Key of Eb (as in the chart). That gives us: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A <-- Notice this is actually a Cm69 - nice!
The bass notes of A and B are not in the Key of Eb! They would be Ab and Bb. I can only imagine how those bass notes would clash with the scale. But who knows what some jazz bass guy may comeup with.
The bass notes would not clash with the chords as they are in the chords, thus it would have nothing to do with the scale, i.e. CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B and Cm7 = C-Eb-G-Bb . That is like saying G# in an E chord clashes with the key of C, think of the song 5 foot 2. Or am I reading you wrong? Note that bass line, B-Bb-A, can be a typical half-step bass line.
Also Cm6/A = C-Eb-G-A so how do you get a Cm69 (C-Eb-A-D) out of it?
Last edited by MarioD; 02/06/2404:07 PM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
In the key of C minor, B and A are melodic tones. They feature in the descending melodic minor mode of C minor, and they are commonly found in descending movement in minor-key melodies.
This progression is similar to an arrangement I've seen of the song "Feelings" that goes... Em EmM7 Em7 Em6 C.
The semitone descending harmonic movement of E-D#-D-C#-C that's present in this progression is often given to the bass and written as...
Em - Em/D# - Em/D - Em/C# - C
My experience is that if the bass line uses the notes for descending, it's usually not necessary to double them in one of the upper harmony parts.
I don't know if this is useful information but I thought I'd pass it on in case it's useful.
............................. This progression is similar to an arrangement I've seen of the song "Feelings" that goes... Em EmM7 Em7 Em6 C.
The semitone descending harmonic movement of E-D#-D-C#-C that's present in this progression is often given to the bass and written as...
Em - Em/D# - Em/D - Em/C# - C ............................. --Noel
That also is the same type of progression that we used in Summertime, i.e. Am-AmMaj7-Am7-Am6 followed by Dm-DmMaj7-Dm7-Dm6 then E9-F9-E9. And like your scenario the bass added the various notes via a walk down while everyone else played the minor chord. It is a quite common chord progression.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
OK, you guys are double teaming me... but I love it! Thanks for putting me in my place. There is no shame in my music game. Ya, I was pretty focused on the Eb Major scale and did some of the math in my head.
Quote
Mario: The bass notes would not clash with the chords as they are in the chords, thus it would have nothing to do with the scale, i.e. CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B and Cm7 = C-Eb-G-Bb .
Also Cm6/A = C-Eb-G-A so how do you get a Cm69 (C-Eb-A-D) out of it?
CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B <-- Yes, and one of the bass notes in the progession is a B which is not in the Eb major scale. On review I now recognize the error of my ways. The mM chord is not in any major or natural minor scale. Just as this chord progression is based on a different scale than the Major or natural minor. My bad.
Second - Again,it is a Cm69 based on the notes, Root - C, Eb is the flat 3rd, A is the 6th, in the sheet music the G is omitted which leaves us with D which is the 9th - hence Cm69. That is how I got it. How correct I am still needs to be determined.
Quote
Noel: In the key of C minor, B and A are melodic tones.
Bingo, this is obviously an important point I missed. I will do better next time.
Thanks for keeping me honest. And by the way, this certainly is one of the most beautiful sounds ever written. I am glad we could look closer at this together.
That also is the same type of progression that we used in Summertime, It is a quite common chord progression.
Yes, Excellent example, I played JJ's version of Summertime. But my understanding was that this is the Harmonic Minor not the melodic? Or it could be that asending/desending stuff Noel mentioned used to confuse us all. But I would argue that it is not necessarly a "common" progression since chords based on the major and natural minor scale are everywhere.
Second - Again,it is a Cm69 based on the notes, Root - C, Eb is the flat 3rd, A is the 6th, in the sheet music the G is omitted which leaves us with D which is the 9th - hence Cm69. That is how I got it. How correct I am still needs to be determined. ............................... Dan
OK I'm lost, as usual! In the sheet music I have seen the G present. The same when playing chords. And yes you can leave the 5th out of the chord. However if you do leave the 5th out of the chord you get C-Eb-A. Where did you get the D?
In my world, right or wrong, Cm6 and Cm69 are two different chords and leaving out the 5th does not change the chord.
Last edited by MarioD; 02/06/2406:09 PM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I would call the Ds passing notes. Look at the Ds in the other chords. I also don't know what that second chord is. Note I'm not trying to be a pain or saying that you are wrong. I just want to learn.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
The second chord is a C minor with a major 7th (the B). In between a C minor and a C minor 7, it really gives a descending and moody feel to the verse in the progression. My Funny Valentine, Simple Twist of Fate, For The Roses come to mind as having this kind of descending chord progression where the root note (typically the bass) doesn't change until the third or fourth bar or chord.
Thank you guys for the musical theory. Very educational. In my case I like to give the bass that descending and moody feel. Ignoring slash root of slash chords works reasonably good.
Last edited by Jan R; 02/07/2403:19 AM.
Thanks, Jan R.
piano: Hammond Skx Pro guitar: Ibanez LGB30 guitar amp: Boss Katana 50 MKII
The second chord is a C minor with a major 7th (the B). In between a C minor and a C minor 7, it really gives a descending and moody feel to the verse in the progression. My Funny Valentine, Simple Twist of Fate, For The Roses come to mind as having this kind of descending chord progression where the root note (typically the bass) doesn't change until the third or fourth bar or chord.
Yes, that is what I meant in the the chord description that I added, but the chord contains an F, a natural A, and a D, What totally confuses me as you have a C-Eb-F-G-A-B-D. I would think that is either a polychord or a cluster. It's either that or a typo in the notes?
Note that I am a simple guitarist so this makes sense to me:
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Note that I am a simple guitarist so this makes sense to me:
You and me both. But this song was one of my first chord melody arrangements. So even we simple gutarists can dial it up a notch at times.
Yes, this I can understand. That second chord in your first example has me confused, but that doesn't take much these days! But instead of beating a dead horse I'll just let it pass and move on.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
That second chord in your first example has me confused, but that doesn't take much these days! But instead of beating a dead horse I'll just let it pass and move on.
Mario, I didn't want to leave you hanging. I agree with you, the CmM7on the sheet is not correctly named or is not correctly notated. I can't explain why (maybe Noel knows ). The sheet music I show is sourced from what is considered an "Official"source in MusScore. I show the two different varients below.
Thank you guys for the musical theory. Very educational. In my case I like to give the bass that descending and moody feel. Ignoring slash root of slash chords works reasonably good.
Jan, thanks for letting us "play" with your thread. I do hope you get the arrangement playing the way you like it in BIAB.
Speaking of 'one of our own', I remember in the very early days of RealTracks discovering that BIAB jazz piano tracks in some styles would just lay out whenever I wrote a mMaj7 chord! This of course was a disaster in Brazilian music. I reported it and they fixed it very quickly with a patch. Turns out those pianists weren't as befuddled as I first thought.
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