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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
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I have had Band in the Box for a few years but I have never really used it as the VSC synth sounds i am using, particularly the guitars, just don't sound very real to me. I am not a great musician, just looking to have fun and I got BIAB to learn to be able to play along with accompaniment without having to figure out how to track my own rythms. I play an 88 key Korg Triton LE that I like to split to use multiple voices in a song along with a midi pedal board and I don't wan't to tie that up doing the accompaniment.
Obviously I would like the best sound out of BIAB for the least amount of expense. While a full up hardware synth seems like overkill for the few voices usually used in the BIAB styles the multisample voices and drums in my Triton blow away the midi sounds from my PC. I am debating whether to look for a rack mount triton used on e-bay, as I am familiar with the setup, or go with a sound module such as a Ketron K2 or get a better software synth. Software seems the cheapest route but do any of the software synths sound as good as a hardware synth?
I have listened to the dare to compare soft synth demos and I guess the Connexant library sounded the best to me although I was still underwhelmed. I listened to some of the songs on ceedee's album that he did using BIAB and they sound amazingly good, so I know BIAB can make great music if the voices are there.
I appreciate your opinions and recomendations,
Thanks,
Mike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
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There are probably hundreds of software players.
Personally I think Cakewalk's Dimension Pro is excellent.
As long as your sustem has a good soundcard softsynths and samplers are the way to go.
IMO
WSS
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Hi Mike
Are you using the basic VSC or the better VSC DXi - on the DXi you have the facility to adjust the parameters of the sound to more realistic levels - the Coyote Forte softsynth has better guitars though but some of the other instruments sound a bit dated
If you have an up to date soundcard - like the X-Fi Xtreme Gamer - then the audio sounds from Realtracks give you excellent guitar sounds
jazzman
Last edited by Jazzman; 11/21/08 01:46 AM.
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1TB -2TB HDD
Roland keyboards
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Mike,
Couldn't you just as well hook up your 88 Key Korg to be an external sound module for the PG Software?
I don't see why not.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
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Quote:
Couldn't you just as well hook up your 88 Key Korg to be an external sound module for the PG Software?
This was my thought as well. I use a Kawai keyboard to play while routing BIAB Midi through it. The hardware sounds are far superior to the VSCdxi. If your Korg has Midi in, you should be able to play it along with BIAB.
I assume you checked out RealTracks.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
There are probably hundreds of software players.
Personally I think Cakewalk's Dimension Pro is excellent.
As long as your sustem has a good soundcard softsynths and samplers are the way to go.
IMO
WSS
Steve, are you using Dim Pro with Biab? I have the original version of Dim Pro and it has 4 elements per instance. Since Biab only has one midi output port, one instance is all I can use so it's no good for Biab. Do you have the new version and is it fully multitimbral so it works with Biab?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 457
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Quote:
Quote:
There are probably hundreds of software players.
Personally I think Cakewalk's Dimension Pro is excellent.
As long as your sustem has a good soundcard softsynths and samplers are the way to go.
IMO
WSS
Steve, are you using Dim Pro with Biab? I have the original version of Dim Pro and it has 4 elements per instance. Since Biab only has one midi output port, one instance is all I can use so it's no good for Biab. Do you have the new version and is it fully multitimbral so it works with Biab?
Bob
Actually I use BIAB for creating a midi file and opening it in Sonar P8.
I wonder if you could open more instances in Power Tracks?
WSS
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I listened to some of the songs on ceedee's album that he did using BIAB and they sound amazingly good, so I know BIAB can make great music if the voices are there.
He uses lots of RealTracks, that makes a big difference!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2004
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You get what you pay for with Soft synths. I'll try to rank the ones I have, and only include Gm synths to narrow it down. I) Colossus (Kontakt) cost: $$$$ forget it. But it's extremely good even for serious media scoring.It has GM, not that that makes any difference at this level. 2) Hypersonic. Cost: around $200 street, but you might get it cheaper if you dig around. Excellent library for the price and very resource friendly (can run well on almost anything). Requires dongle. 3) Garritan Jazz. Cost: about the same or cheaper than Hypersonic. It is very good and would be my second choice after hypersonic. Then there's 'Bandstand'. Cost: (about the same as Garritan) . Not bad if you don't mind dealing with Native Instr's total lack of support. The remaining (the affordable ones (  ) You probably have tried yourselves so I won't bother.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Actually I use BIAB for creating a midi file and opening it in Sonar P8.
I wonder if you could open more instances in Power Tracks?
WSS
That's why I was asking Steve. This is the Biab forum and most softsynths like Dim Pro are not appropriate but in Real Band or Power Tracks you've got 16 midi ports so multiple instances are no problem. Biab is GM based and while you can use non GM synths by using patch maps or just manually assigning an instrument to each channel it's not worth the effort for most of us so we only look at GM stuff and the choices are very limited. You've got the VSC, Forte and Bandstand and that's basically it for softsynths and hardware it's the SD2. All the other hardware synths like my Kurzweil, Rolands etc, may have a GM soundbank but it's lame compared to their primary banks. Some of the high end arranger keyboards have good GM sounds but you're talking 2-3 grand for one of those.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2000
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I had the Coyote ForteDXi for a long while, and the VSC DXi, and also the Synth of the Audigy (quite good indeed),.
But since I got the external Yamaha MU-100, I don't use them any more.
Hadware synths are hard to beat in many other ways not mentioned here. You can play them without a computer in performance, you can feed them from any MIDI source easily, they haver overall good sounds, they can readily layer sounds to get fat ones out, PLUS, they are GREAT for external connectivity, such as sending them to external mixers, allow monitor outside, control their volume levels indeendently with physicl knobs quickly, most have several inputs and outputs, earphone jacks, and even their very own reliable little screens where you can see what's going on on each channel. I can also hook other midi controls to drive it bypassing software playing, even a second player can be playing it with another separate keyboard he/she without going through a computer, I can play bass with the MIDI pedals directly into it too.
Dollar pe dollar, I would say that one gets more with the hardware one than from a software one.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Quote:
Obviously I would like the best sound out of BIAB for the least amount of expense.
To be honest with you, the best sounds out of BIAB are the RealTracks. No synth is going to beat those for realism.
But, if that is not meeting your needs or you must have a synth, the SD2 sounds really good and is fairly priced. For software synths, I would also check out Vi.One, which is running for about $100 at some places. It has GM and other instruments. (Check the system requirements!) Sampletank also looks good at $200. If you buy it in the next month, you can also get the Miroslav Philharmonik plugin for FREE! While it requires some skill, it's apparently an excellent plugin for those type of sounds. Guitar Center also has a 10% off sale, so that's even more savings.
Still, you're better off having a real player and RealTracks gives you that. If you need to upgrade to get them, I would suggest that over any synth. I can certainly vouch for the guitars - they're really good.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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As was said he has a korg triton, that is a darned nice hardware synth. Don't need anything else. Between the korg, and RTs, you got it made.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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correction to my post above Garritan Jazz is not GM, I don't think. (So many different options and opinions. .....I remember the good old days when you had VSC... Made choosing easier.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually I use BIAB for creating a midi file and opening it in Sonar P8.
I wonder if you could open more instances in Power Tracks?
WSS
That's why I was asking Steve. This is the Biab forum and most softsynths like Dim Pro are not appropriate
I wasn't aware of that.
but in Real Band or Power Tracks you've got 16 midi ports so multiple instances are no problem. Biab is GM based and while you can use non GM synths by using patch maps or just manually assigning an instrument to each channel it's not worth the effort for most of us
To each his own.
I would think that saving a basic set of excellent tones would be great if it can be done.
I guess I didn't realize there was an incompatiblity problem
so we only look at GM stuff and the choices are very limited. You've got the VSC, Forte and Bandstand and that's basically it for softsynths and hardware it's the SD2. All the other hardware synths like my Kurzweil, Rolands etc, may have a GM soundbank but it's lame compared to their primary banks. Some of the high end arranger keyboards have good GM sounds but you're talking 2-3 grand for one of those.
Best
WSS
Bob
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have seen plenty of suggestions that I just use BIAB to control my Korg. I have tried that and the rythms sound great especially when I assign the non GM voices to BIAB. However, I then don't have enough voices to do the BIAB parts and configure the keyboard for the way I use it. In the mode I operate in which is the combi mode, in some songs I have up to four splits across the keyboard using different combinations of voices in each split and I have another voice assigned to the midi pedal board.
I am limited to 8 voices so I don't think I have enough to do both. Maybe I am missing something here?
By the way, thanks for the posts they are useful. I will check out the suggestions that have been made.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Hi Mike R,
Splits on keyboards are for performance mostly, would say.
For track-based MIDI, istrument patch and bank changes can be included in the track so one channel can play various parts in turn.
That aproach is where soft synths may find problems in swithching instantly (they can choke or take seconds to switch). But hardware midi boxes don't have that trouble.
So, if you use hardware midi sounds, you can play many instruments as long as they take turns.
There are limitations to any thing, though, and as often, we do modify the way we do things to cope with them.
Last edited by NoKey; 11/22/08 12:29 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
In the mode I operate in which is the combi mode, in some songs I have up to four splits across the keyboard using different combinations of voices in each split and I have another voice assigned to the midi pedal board.
I am limited to 8 voices so I don't think I have enough to do both. Maybe I am missing something here?
I don't know Korg, but hard to imagine such a sophisticated instrument not affording a full 16-channel multitimbral response to an external sequencer. A quick scour of the Triton LE Basic Guide shows this quote on p. 77:"If you wish to use the Sequencer mode of the instrument as a 16-track multi-timbral tone generator, select INT or BTH. (☞PG p.62 “Status”)" The midi implementation chart shows that all program changes are received, and all 16 channels recognized (although there's "memorized" in the remarks column, which is cryptic to me.) Their documentation doesn't make it easy - there seems a lot more about using the internal sequencer than configuring for the receipt of external midi data - but hopefully you'll figure a way. (When I was shopping around, I remember being turned off by all that "combi" business, but I don't remember concluding that 16-channel multitimbral was impossible.)
HTH, Ron
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Quote:
Biab is GM based and while you can use non GM synths by using patch maps or just manually assigning an instrument to each channel it's not worth the effort for most of us so we only look at GM stuff and the choices are very limited.
Guess I'm in the minority, since I find my Kurzweil patchmap useful.** Problem is, even though BB permits its use, they didn't facilitate access to it when they added program change functionality at the bar level (F5). Actually a number of us would appreciate that feature, as evidenced here. I'm anxious to see if this improvement made it to the imminent upgrade.
-Ron
** EDIT - Admittedly, there are higher bank issues, and it's a lot simpler to stick with GM in early stages of working out an arrangement. For me, since the sounds themselves are a factor in style considerations, I sorely miss a more comprehensive and simple access to the higher banks. Same issue in RB, btw.
Last edited by rkl122; 11/22/08 04:16 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Veteran
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Quote:
I have seen plenty of suggestions that I just use BIAB to control my Korg. I have tried that and the rythms sound great especially when I assign the non GM voices to BIAB. However, I then don't have enough voices to do the BIAB parts and configure the keyboard for the way I use it. In the mode I operate in which is the combi mode, in some songs I have up to four splits across the keyboard using different combinations of voices in each split and I have another voice assigned to the midi pedal board.
I am limited to 8 voices so I don't think I have enough to do both. Maybe I am missing something here?
By the way, thanks for the posts they are useful. I will check out the suggestions that have been made.
What you need it to do and I don't know if it's possible or not, is to have Biab access the Korg's sounds while at the same time allow you to access and play all your performance setups. I read your Triton has 64 voices but when you use combi's and keyboard splits you may be using 10 or more voices in each zone. Still with 64 to play with, Biab only uses 3 or 4 in most live situations so you still should have enough. The question is can you set it up to do both. That sounds like something for Korg's tech support.
The problem with this for me at least, is I don't want some weird software configuration to take a dump on me in the middle of a gig because I happened to hit the wrong button and I'm turning into a keyboard tech while the audience is waiting.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
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This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
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Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
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