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Joined: Feb 2008
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Quote:
far as i know the new version will do midi only if'n ya want it to
You beat me too it. I just don't see what the fuss is. If you don't like RT don't use them.
I find that a mix of RT and midi lets me have the great sound of RTs and the control over melody from midi. When using RTs the midi definately sounds better than midi alone. If you use RTs for all but the melody that lets you use a non-gm-synth. Now I use sfz player with Jennsen guitar soundfonts to get near perfect covers of guitar based rock and pop. Can't beat it.
Personally I'd like to see PGMusic enable multi midi synths in BiaB. It would really extend the capabilities. But a midi only version is redundant IMO.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Quote:
However perhaps the answer is simply a purchase option that doesn't include any RT's. Same BIAB, just no RT's included and have a somewhat more budget price for it. If you later want to include RT's it's then just a matter of purchasing them.
No special version of the software or anything, just a packaging alternative.
Hi Lawrie. If I'm not mistaken the Pro version is essentially this option. It only includes a few RDs and RTs as teasers. It's fairly inexpensive too.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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I only use MIDI tracks. I do some songs with the signature licks and some songs completely my own arrangement, and others somewhere in between. However, I can ALWAYS produce a better MIDI product than those RTs. MIDI is not cheesy, MIDI has no sound at all, most post-MIDI pop music you hear on the radio is made with some (and in some cases possibly all) MIDI instruments, only the sound card in your computer and cheap synthesizers are cheesy. Some of those RT parts sound like a lame Holiday Inn band to me, others sound pretty good, but they are all pretty much non-editable. With MIDI I can - Put a real ending on them and if I want, a held chord with a sfz and swell before fading out
- Put a real introduction on the song
- Put song specific licks or put a non-song specific lick on the song that might be able to enhance the song
- Put rhythmic kicks that greatly enhance the exprssiveness of the music and keep it from sounding like boring blah
- For specific songs I can manipulate the volumes of individual drum sounds - for example, pump up the snare, tone down the cymbals, etc. etc.
- Change the drum sound, for example on a Latin Rock tune I might want to substitute cowbell for ride cymbal, for a hard rock song I might want to use a different snare, or even eliminate a drum instrument
- I might want to exaggerate the groove by putting the 2 and 4 beats (in 4/4 time) ahead of behind the beat
- Change the instument, change that acou piano into a Rhodes or guitar, thange the guitar into a clav, change the sax section to an organ, with MIDI the choices are endless
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: crescendo
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: diminuendo
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: accelerando
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: ridardando
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: fermata
- Expressive devices impossible to do in BiaB correctly: sforzando
- I can re-arrange, add, or eliminate the drum rolls with a few mouse moves
You can't do these things with Audio LoopsAll in all I can get a MUCH more expressive arrangement out of MIDI than I can with the RTs (perhaps this is the reason why most professional musicians I know prefer MIDI to loops). Granted the tone of the RTs might be slightly better than a pro-quality sound module, but for the listening public, expression is MUCH more important than tone. That's why singers with poor voices can sell so many records (think Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, Rod Stewart, John Lennon, Blossom Dearie and so on). And what's good tone anyway? Take guitars. Ask 100 different listeners and you might get 90 different answers, including Slash, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Gale, Jim Hall, Carlos Montoya, Duane Allman, Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell, Joe Walsh, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Eddie VanHalen, Johnny A, Ritchie Blackmore, Steve Howe, Dimebag, Esteban, Buddy Guy, B.B. King, Don Felder, Carlos Santana, Chet Atkins, Adrian Belew, Chuck Berry, Wyclef Jean, Brad Paisley, Randy Bachman, Martin Barre, Larry Carlton, Dick Dale, Carl Wilson, Tom DeLonge, Peter Green, Rick Derringer, Emily Remler, Duane Eddy, Robert Fripp, Billy Gibbons, Jay Graydon, Kirk Hammett, Stanley Jordan, Tony Iommi, Elmore James, and I could go on and on, you get the idea. And don't get me started on saxophonists. Play John Coltrane and Stan Getz to a causal listener and most people will think they are playing different instruments. As long as the tone is in the ball-park for the kind of music you are playing, it's OK as long as the expression is there - if the tone is perfect and the expression isn't there, the music will reek.
CONCLUSION:
Since the ability to edit MIDI tracks can produce a MUCH more expressive song than audio loops, as long as you have a decent synthesizer, MIDI is better. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
Hi gibson,
I have all the MIDI styles and the latest in my collection is Disk #77 (UK Pop). On BIAB version 2011, this information is accessed via Stylepicker >> Filter >> Show all style disks. As far as I know, there haven't been any additional styles for a little while now. Since the Realtracks are musical phrases, how they play is not determined by a particular style.
Regards,
Noel
Check out http://www.nortonmusic.com -- it's your Band-in-a-Box MIDI upgrade!!!!!!!!!
Self-serving but yet still a public service plug by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Joined: May 2000
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Ahh the MIDI vs RealTracks argument. Use what works for you. When you write original stuff, there are no 'signature licks' to worry about yet. Some fine work can be accomplished with Realtracks on original songs. Some fine work can be done by MIDI too. Let the method fill the need.
Of course, if you want to be a purist, nothing beats a group of good live players! But those are rare, which is why a lot of us are here to begin with.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Joined: Nov 2003
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I actually use only the midi features of biab 2010. I like midi and I like the biab paradigm where I can think along the lines of chords and melody instead of just grooves and clips. (like the sonar paradigm, although both are good and have their merits).....I really like creating my own styles and then when songwriting I can write just chords and melody and then have a completely original tune real fast:)...real tracks are cool yet for original music they can make it less original.
...........Jeff......
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I think things are pretty cool as they stand. I've got a "music store" of midi keyboards and rack samplers, soundmodules, and specialized cards for the computer like Korg's thousand-dollar (ended up you could grab one for a mere $200) Oasys/midi PC cards...
pretty midi-prepared studio for an old geezer.
I also love to jam with real instruments,
and Real Tracks/Band allow me to do this, as it's library of "real" doo-dahs grows exponentially to meet just about any musical taste.
Cost me way under $200 for the new swinging data base from PG. Most of the larger "box-type" churches I attend seem to have enough budget to carry symphony-sized orchestras, and various other small to large choral, hip-hop, jazz, etc..... REALLY LIVE
musical combinations!
...but they could still successfully integrate BIAB, with the comparitively tiny investment needed.
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Hello ,
I joined this forum today to post my feelings about the direction BIAB has taken with " Real Tracks ", and seeming to have abandoned Midi improvements , no new styles ect .
First I should give some history of myself: I'm a guitarist of 47 years . I started using BIAB with version 6 as it came bundled together with my first sound card along with MidiSoft sequencer . I'm a schooled musician , so I read standard music notation . Working with Midi was and still is the core of how I create music . Working with a music score is paramount to how I develop musical ideas into original compositions . Standard music notation is still the best way to preserve ones music for other musicians through the years . Sorry if I tread on anyone’s feet here , but any serious music student needs to learn to read standard music notation . I have a home recording studio and over the years have built up quite an arsenal of gear . I won't list everything here , but I will note the Midi equipment I use .
My first real synthesizer was a Roland JV-1010 , and I still use it for the Session onboard expansion card . I have a Roland XV-5080 with several expansion cards , and being a guitarist , I have a Roland GR-33 and also have the Terratec Producer Axon AX-100 guitar Midi controller along with 4 guitars equipped with Midi , 2 using the Graphtech Ghost system . Other synths used are the Korg Triton Rack , and a Kurzweil K2000R V.A.S.T. player which are daisy chained to and share a SCSI CD Rom reader and SCSI Hard Disk Drive , which holds a very large library of custom Midi patches . I also have a Yamaha Motif-Rack ES . I use a Starrlabs Ztar midi controller and a Zendrum that I use a Roland TD-6V Drum Module with , I also have an extensive library of BFD2 Midi triggered Drum/Percussion samples . So YES I'M A Midi-Idiot . I can say without a doubt , my Midi tracks sound quality is WAAAAAY better than any real tracks . Not my fault others are using a rinky dinky Sound Blaster or freebie VST synth .
In conclusion I say please don't abandon the future development of new Midi Styles , and improvements such as the ability to view a full music score , yes in standard music notation ... All those in favor please post your feelings here so Peter Gannon will know how we feel .
Ztarman
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Here we go again, MIDI vs Real Tracks. I play jazz piano and use only Real Bass and Real Drums for accompaniment. If you're a cover band then MIDI is probably better for you. For my purposes MIDI dosen't come close to the sound and feel of the Real Tracks. I used the MIDI tracks for many years and it was like a miracle when Real Tracks came out. For me, no comparison. Real Tracks, hands down.........
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I know I can turn of the RT's because that is what I do know and all is good with BIAB.
I do not want PG Music to transfer their development from RT's back to MIDI.
I would just like to be able to NOT download all the RT's in the 1st place but STILL get the MIDI files/Style that appear in the style maker for the new RT styles when the RT's are turned off.
that's all.
Is that even possible, no one has jumped to say if it is possible or not?
As lawrie says "No special version of the software or anything, just a packaging alternative"
Alyn
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Quote:
I would just like to be able to NOT download all the RT's in the 1st place but STILL get the MIDI files/Style that appear in the style maker for the new RT styles when the RT's are turned off.
that's all.
Is that even possible, no one has jumped to say if it is possible or not?
Alyn
That is a very good question that I would like answered also.
Also what is the latest count on style discs? I have 77 style discs, is that all of them to date? If so then no work has been done on new style discs in some time now.
Another possible option would be to sell style discs seperately, much as RTs are sold seperately. I believe style discs could be a download only purchase.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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there are more style disks than you can shake a stick at on Notes web site. Add those as needed.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
there are more style disks than you can shake a stick at on Notes web site. Add those as needed.
Yes I know, but thanx for bringing that up. This is at least one source of new styles. I was trying to find out if BiaB has produced any new styles.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Would anyone advocate a BIAB version without MIDI tracks?
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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The trouble with my wish is very few people that have responded have actually read my wish and an example of the quality of response is raymb1 Quote:
Would anyone advocate a BIAB version without MIDI tracks?
I will not dignify THAT remark by responding.
I also know of Notes Norton's styles BUT I was enquiring about Band in a Box 2011.
I think I can safely say that the answer to my wish is a categoric NO, it is not possible to download BIAB 2011 WITHOUT downloading the RTs, which was all I wanted to know.
Thanks to Mario D and jeffgee for joining in
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Gibson, I just checked if you have BiaB 2010 you can get the upgrade for $49 that has a few RTs. There is no option for an upgrade without RTs.
I also noticed the answer to my question in that there are only 77 style discs. So no work on style discs have been done in sometime now. I also couldn’t find any information on the improvement of the midi application in BiaB, such as increased resolution. So this and the fact that the RTs I have right now suit my needs it looks like I will not be upgrading for the first time in a long time.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Yeh I checked that too, Thanks MarioD. I too have many Real stuff and like the music that plays when I choose a Real style with Rt's turned off. I say music because it seems that no midi should be present if the style is an all RT style, yet I can save it as a midi file and do stuff with it. And anyway who cares as an old girl friend from 35 years ago contacted me before Christmas, luckily I did remember her!! and we are slowly getting back together as we are both available again.   She hasn't changed much and says I haven't also.YAY!
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"I would like a MIDI only BIAB as before the Real Invasion"
Just para-phrasing your very first statement. Sorry if you got offended. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I think I am the one who should be apologising to you, Raymb <holds out hand of friendship> :>)
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Excuse some early-morning ramblings. It's been a long night.
Reading through this discussion I have noted an underlying assumption on the part of those who argue against a MIDI-only version of BIAB, namely, that everyone who uses BIAB plans to produce more-or-less standard music styles--jazz, pop, country, and the like.
Erm, not. Apart from a few novelty pieces in old jazz styles, everything I do is electronic. (Check the link below for examples.) Even in the MIDI Styles the pickings are pretty slim for me.
Okay, I'm in an overwhelming minority. Which merely means that I need to act on something I have long believed, which is that the true sorcery of MIDI-based BIAB lies in the Stylemaker. Time ta start rollin' my own.
But here's a thought that should boggle everybody: WHAT IF, up yonder in Vancouver, they were working toward implementation of Real Track-quality audio driven by the Stylemaker as is presently done with MIDI noises?
Bet you'd see some interest in expanded MIDI capability then. Or would you still be content with Real Styles as they are doled out to you? Hee hee.
Don't see why it's not doable. Just triggering samples note-by-note instead of bar-by-bar.
Richard
P.S.: I was astonished to see ANY discussion of the quality of MIDI sounds come up in this thread. Just goes to show that, just I know maybe 5% of this incredible program, those who prematurely predict the death of MIDI may be equally limited in their view of (some of) BIAB's potential.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
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Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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