Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I think most people here have heard about the derisive "OK Boomer" tag young people use quite a lot? That in a nutshell is the problem with Biab, and this forum. Especially the User Showcase forum. Any young wannabe song producer who takes one look around here thinks this software is completely out of touch with the modern world.

I really don't know how to solve this. These forums have become a great gathering place for veteran Boomer users from all over the world but every time I read a thread about classic country or a request in the Wishlist forum for yet another Sinatra or big band or Johnny Cash or some obscure Eastern European polka style all I think of is if a 30 something modern pop person sees that he'll run, not walk away and tell all his friends that all Biab is good for is grandpa's music. Not even his fathers music, his grandfathers music. When I drive around LA I'll listen to KEarth radio. It's mostly classic rock but the 60's and 70's have already dropped off the setlists. It's all 80's and some 90's now. Why? Because 1981 is 40 flippin years ago!! That's now the limit for classic rock. I rarely hear the Stones or Santana any more and the Beatles may as well have never existed. Woodstock? That's just another farmers field in New York somewhere. I think I heard Grandma say something about it.

Right now, that's the current user base and I certainly am not recommending they put some kind of age restriction or musical style restriction for the forums. That would be stupid too. There is such a huge divide between the older users musical tastes and modern pop I can only offer a few low hanging fruit ideas:

1. Remove all old hardware examples from Help files. The 15 year old Soundblaster AWE is still being used in the initial setup soundcard list. First released in 1996, isn't it time to retire that thing from the documentation?

2. In the Help files and one video about notation they use the classic old song Old Folks At Home to show how it works. Holy crap, is that hip or what? That's a big facepalm if I ever saw one. Here is a piece of software that advertises how great it is at creating a whole new song for you with it's own unique name and melody and it can use any style that is currently available and that's the best they can come up with to demo a feature? 100 year old, public domain, Old Folks At Home? I know there are more very old examples hiding all over the documentation and video list but you guys get the point. Someone needs to go through Every. Single. Page. of the manual, the online Help files and old videos and purge all this antique stuff out and bring it up to date if there is to be any hope at all of attracting a younger user base.

Unforunately, there's noting to be done about private websites that love to post Biab song files like this:

https://www.themeister.co.uk/dixie/band_in_a_box_songs.htm

Here's the first paragraph as an introduction:

Wonderful American Popular Songs from the first half of the twentieth century have become established as the indispensable framework for jazz. They have a structure and characteristics immediately identifiable as 'Our Kind Of Music', they all go 'the same old way'

Oh, Baby, this will sure attract some young customers. Lots of sites like this.

Bob




Excellent points Bob. Like you, I don't know how they can fix this. So many threads here sound like they occurred at a senior center! And there is NOTHING wrong with that except, as you pointed out, it is a HUGE turn off to younger music producers.

Maybe a new forum for "modern music" only? Not age restricted per se but clearly no jazz or classic country or polka conversations welcome! Maybe pick someone young within PGM to moderate and lead this new forum. Seed it weekly or daily with conversation starters based on modern music and how to achieve stuff like that with BIAB. Make it clear that PGM wants this new forum, and the younger producers, to thrive and succeed using BIAB to produce their music.

And your points about the manual are spot on. When I first bought BIAB in 2012 I was excited to see a thick manual! And I started reading it cover to cover but quickly realized there is a ton of outdated stuff in there! Yes, a lot of it still kinda applies but BIAB, since RealTracks, has moved into a new era and as a RealTracks fan I don't want to wade through a ton of options that have nothing to do with RealTracks! Maybe they should create a separate manual for those who simply wish to create backing tracks using RealTracks and who don't care about notation or MIDI or animated fingerboard training tools, etc.? A manual that removes everything old like Sound Blaster and everything specific to ancient versions/features.

I'll conclude with what I always say...This product is AMAZING! What I can do with these RealTracks is close to MAGICAL! But using the software is painful. And as enthusiastic as I am about RealTracks I am never comfortable recommending BIAB because I feel I must also include disclaimers about the GUI, the manual, the focus on old music, etc. If there was a cleaner version with ancient stuff stripped out and a new manual I think PGM would get a lot more referrals. I know they would from me!