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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi, I'm a newby to BB & kind of a slow learner & technicaly challenged as well, so try to talk in laymans terms. Does anyone know about or use the sound module by Roland called the "SD-50 Mobile Studio Canvas"? I'm an amatuer musician & singer & purchassed BB to create back up music when I sing & play my guitar at small venue gigs, ie., nursing homes, small churches, lounge parties & the like. They say that this device can be used as a stand alone, & that you don't have to drag your computer along when out on gigs. Is this true? If so this greatley appeals to me. Also, will it faithfully reproduce the songs that I have painstackingly created in BB & play them that way, or would they be altered & need to be re-edited? My understanding is that you render the songs to a WAV format & feed them to the module & away you go. Once done is there any loss of sound quality from not having the computer hooked up to it? Will it reproduce any songs that have Real Tracks as part of the song? I will have my voice harmonized in BB on some songs & then I want to sing live to the harmonized part or vise versa. Will it handle the vocal part as good as the other? The fact that this device is way cheaper than some of the other stuff out there appeals to me as well. Any guidance & input from you folks who have some expierience with it will be greatly appreciated. I'm just a simple guy looking to enhance my music. Thanks so much for your help.
russ66
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Welcome to the forum. I don't have that unit, but I've used many other Roland synths. The info for yours does say it will play back MP3 or WAVE files, so if you know how to prepare them, you should be fine. If you are using the SD-50 with BIAB on your computer, then you will want to download and use the .PAT file for it, found and explained here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support_miscellaneous.htmThere are some other threads here about the SD-50, so do a search and see what tips you can pick up.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Russ and welcome to the forum. You sure picked a good first question. This is like the smartest person in the world 200 years ago finding a beached nuclear submarine and trying to figure out what it is. I barely know where to begin.
First midi is not audio. Biab will generate both midi and Real Tracks. The RT's are audio files and midi is generated by a synthesizer. The primary purpose of that Roland is to provide a good synth for midi playback. You're asking about rendering songs to wav. That's all audio and you don't need anything other than your smart phone plugged into your PA. People here use smartphones, IPads, dedicated MP3 players and other gadgets that can play back MP3 files and can be plugged into a sound system. The differences people look at are jukebox functions, a bigger screen to see song lists, stuff like that.
The big problem folks run into especially noobys like yourself is the mix. What you've painstakingly mixed in your bedroom is totally and completely useless at the gig. You play your first song of the night at the gig and you go "I'm in big trouble.." the bass is too loud, you can't hear the drums at all, the guitar is way too thin, it sounds like a kazoo, in fact practically everything is wrong. Playing a stereo wave file in a venue away from your house can be a real mess until you've learned how to mix properly. The best way is to set up your PA in your garage turn it up to close to gigging volume and mix there. Forget about mixing in your house. IF you can get the mix right at home for 100 songs (no easy task) then just find a good MP3 player with song list and jukebox functions and that's it, you're good to go. You can slightly tweak the sound using the tone controls on your PA if the bass is a slightly too loud or something but you can't do a complete remix like that.
The Roland only has a tiny little screen and while it can be accessed to mix 5 or 6 or more channels it would be a total pain to try that live at a gig. This is why virtually everybody brings a laptop, opens up Roland's mixing application and then they can control the unit from their computer including the live mix. Of course as a technically challenged person as you say, you don't really want to do that, right? But consider the advantages of a laptop. First is the mixing but second is there are great free programs around for creating jukebox and song lists and you can display lyrics too.
I don't have an easy answer for you. This stuff is tricky and has a serious learning curve but we help folks here all the time with that. Tell us your thoughts on what I just wrote and we'll go from there.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Matt, I'll have more questions later. I have to wade through this stuff cautiously.
russ66
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Journeyman
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Hi russ66. Take Jazzmannal's comments VERY much to heart because they are SPOT ON...especially about your "bedroom mixes" being useless at gigs...unless you are gigging in a similar bedroom!!! (-:
The only thing I would add to the advice of using a laptop at a gig is to take a separate mp3 player...or CD...loaded with your sets to the gig because puters follow Murphy's Law in failing at the MOST incovenient times! (-:
As do PATCH CORDS! Trust me...it happened to ME!
This isn't exactly relevant but it's so funny, I'll included it. Back in the ADAT days, my wife was singing a gig with ADAT tracks and a drummer. In the middle of the SECOND SONG the tracks just quit (it was the drummer's ADAT machine by the way).
We looked back at him and the tape was spitting out of the ADAT player like spaghetti!!!
Ever tried singing to the "accompaniment" of drums only???
It was GIG OVER...FULL REFUND!!! (-:
I'll NEVER forget the "deer in the headlights" look on the drummer's face!!!
(-:
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Bob, thanks for the reply. Seems like when I learn something I need to learn more. Would you believe that when I started with this progect I barely knew the difference between a chanel & a track? Plus all the dizzying array of all the technical terms and choices; It was like learning a foreign language, & I'm still learning it. That plus my computer skills suck, but I'm taking some classes for that. Anyway I'll digest all you have said for a little while & come up with some more questions. Maybe I'll go back to looking at the "Slim Phatty" by Moog if I take the computer with me anyway. It costs almost twice as much but the reviews on it are really good. What do you think? Would it handle the RealTracks alot better? Thanks again.
russ66
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Quote:
Maybe I'll go back to looking at the "Slim Phatty" by Moog if I take the computer with me anyway. It costs almost twice as much but the reviews on it are really good. What do you think? Would it handle the RealTracks alot better?
Russ this doesn't make sense because you don't understand this stuff. The Moog is just a synth, it has nothing to do with Real Tracks. A synth or computer doesn't "handle" RT's. In fact a synth by itself has nothing to do with an RT, in order for any synth to play a RT it will need an onboard audio file player and that Moog doesn't have one. A synth is based on midi. Band in a Box generates a Real Track. A RT is an audio file just like a track from your favorite CD is an audio file. So the question is will your synth or computer handle a track from a CD? In the context of this thread he answer to the computer part or your question is yes if you've rendered the CD track to a wav or MP3 file. Many times folks will use both RT's and the midi sounds from a synth so then you have to look at now to mix them together and also make sure they are synched time wise. Sometimes the midi part will play slightly behind the RT part. That's called latency and is a whole other discussion but it's not a problem just something for you to know about.
Your point about this being a foreign language is exactly correct. I've pointed this out many times on this forum. You have to learn the language before you can learn how to work with this stuff. Keep reading and if you see a term you don't understand just Google it. A full explanation will pop up and usually Wikipedia will be the first hit. Do me a big favor and don't initially ask about a term here, Google it first then ask if you need to.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Bob. Not to worry, I won't be asking you to translate the lingo (well maybe a little). Anyway, a couple of points: I take it that getting a live final mix is way harder than initially mixing them in BB which I found quite easy. I understand what you are saying about the latency issues; I'll figure that out later, but I guess I'm puzzled as to why the final mix should be so much harder, which you implied. I plan on test running every song I do, like you say with all the hardware hooked up; my amp, mic & speakers, which are all pretty good. Also, maybe I'll just stick with midi for starters, then swap in some RT later after I've learned more. My needs are not great here. A typical gig for me is up to 6 or so song program. I don't do background music for hrs. on end. I don't envision ever having more then 60 or 70 songs in BB. I have sheet music for eveything I do or will put into BB. I have music books gaqlore with 100'ds, maybe a thousand or more songs in them all total. I memorize some of what I do, and if I don't I have the sheet music, so I still don't know thy I'd need a computer with me once I have a song rendered to an MP3 or something, but I'll keep an open mind. Back to the RT issue. PG Music really touts the RT feature of BB, but they don't tell you that you practicly have to be a professional sound technician to end up with that sound while out entertaining. Please don't take this as a personal critisizm. I like what you guys are doing with the forums, FAQ & stuff. I plan on attending some of the free classes that the local Guitar Center store here in Wisc. offers. They use Garage Band, but the same principals apply I assume. Especially where the hardware is concerned. Thanks for putting up with me.
russ66
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Quote:
...but I guess I'm puzzled as to why the final mix should be so much harder, which you implied. I plan on test running every song I do, like you say with all the hardware hooked up; my amp, mic & speakers, which are all pretty good.
The biggest problem is different acoustics and ambient noise at a live venue. Try to hook up all your stuff in a bigger space than just your bedroom or wherever you usually do your audio work. Set it up in a garage or somewhere like that.
I've done a few gigs where I brought a laptop and played Biab live. I mixed the Biab songs where bass and drums were in the left channel and everything else in the right then used a stereo splitter plug so I could put both sides into different channels of my PA. Then at least I had some control over the volume levels of the bass/drums vs everything else. What sounds great at home can be very boomy live. Splitting the stereo mix like that worked fairly well. It's still much better to have individual instrument control but try that first. It might be good enough for you.
Read the thread in the Off Topic forum about using reference recordings to test your mixes. You've probably been in lots of places where they're using precorded CD's for music and it sounds great. Those are professional mixes and I guarantee you your mixes are not at that level yet. It takes practice, lots of practice. The other thing is a commercial CD has been properly mastered so each song is at a good relative volume to other songs and the EQ's are similar. Comparing that to a bunch of individual songs you mixed at home is drastically different. You may mix say 3 songs in a row where the bass is similar but the 4th one it's way louder because you thought the song called for it. Playing that immediately after another song where the bass is good can take your head off at the same volume.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Bob, your probably getting sick of me by now. I'm understanding a little better the advantages of the computer being along. Also the need to test out the mix in a similar enviroment. Let me tell you how I go out to sing. Someone might say to me: "Hey Russ, we got this or that going on down at the VFW comming up. How about comming down to sing a few songs for us" So I agree, and if I get a free meal I'm happy. Now my amp is an "Acoustic AG60" which I purchased at Guitar center several years ago; 60 watts, plenty of punch for my needs. It has 2 channels with 2 inputs per channel with seperate volume controls for each input. Thats 4 total. I plug my accoustic guitar into 1 and my live mic into the other, set the dials to what sounds good & it is. Now I'm assumming & I hope corectley that the 2 imputs per channel means that my amp has spliter plugs built into it. I'll need to find that out. Then if I do like you say this will give me some control by seperating the bass & drums from the other correct? As I said, if I'm out singing, it is always in a quiet enviroment or I won't do it. I will not sing for people if they are moving around talking and making noise. This must not be a problem because I keep getting asked to sing. I do understand that the accoustics in differnt places can vary & how my laptop with BB can help with the right mix, you have made that clear & I believe you. Now getting back to sound modules. I need to pick one that has the onboard audio player, as you put it in order to do something with the Realtracks. Does the Roland SD-50 have that? My plan is to not do anything with RT until later, maybe much later, but I'd like to have that option. I'm going to start out with just midi & try to keep things simple. I might start with just 1, yes you heard me, just one midi sound! Maybe an organ, accordian or piano backing me up, then adding instruments one at a time later when by then I hopefully know what I'm doing. If I have to upgrade with a different amp or extra speakers then I will, but by God I will get me a little extra musical back up. I will continue to monitor the forums.
russ66
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I looked up your Acoustic amp, it's a full range amp with 4 inputs so all you do is split the stereo signal from your source into L and R and put those into channels 1 and 2 in the amp and hear what it sounds like. If it's acceptable then you're good to go. You haven't told us yet exactly what are you using for sound now? Is it a desktop or laptop computer? Do you have a laptop? Do you have an audio/midi interface or are you just using your computers internal soundcard and what synth are you using for midi now?
If you're using your internal soundcard then run over to a Radio Shack or music store and pick up a 1/8" stereo mini plug to two 1/4" plugs splitter and use that with two 1/4" patch cords to your amp. Play any Biab song just using your midi synth no RT's and hear that but pan the bass and drums full left to one channel and everything else full right to the other channel. Then use some RT's and hear that through the amp. Then try to set this up in a big room or even outside to test what it sounds like in a big space like a VFW hall. If you're playing in the little bar off to the side in most VFW's then your living room may be close enough in sound.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Wow! Your still with me! I was thinking: Bob's going to give up on me.
I don't have anything yet. All I have is my Sony VAIO E Series Lap Top computer with BB loaded onto it, which I bought because somebody told me that BB works really good on it which it does. Thats it. I have my amp which I've described, my accoustic guitar with it's Fishman pick-up, and a live singing mic. I need a sound module with an onboard audio player, the interfaces and connectors needed to hook eveything together from the lap top right on through to the amp. I need a recording mic for my voice, but I have my search for that narrowed down. My plan is to record my voice in BB, harmonize it, mute the recorded voice, keep the harmony, sing & play along with it & the rest of the music the sinth is producing from BB in my lap top. As I said before, I plan to start out simple, with just a few midi sounds & work from there getting the mix right in an enviroment like you recommended. At some point, after being comfortable what I'm doing, I will want to introduce some RT into my songs & render some songs to MP3 or some other audio, so I want whatever sinth or sound module I get to have the audio player in it you said I would need.
Just looking to keep those little old ladies at the nursing home happy.
russ66
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Russ, you're already set. This is very simple at least to start. Your laptop is your audio player and Biab interface. I'm assuming for midi sounds you're just using whatever came with your laptop. That is called the Coyote wavetable. Doesn't sound very good. From PG's homepage download and install the Forte Dxi softsynth. It's a fully functioning demo for 30 days and then if you like it it's $40. That's what I used for several live Biab gigs I mentioned. It is plenty good enough for you right now, don't think about buying anything else until you've played around with the Forte first. You may be surprised how good it is and decide that's all you need.
You put that Radio Shack mini plug stereo splitter into your headphone output of the laptop and run the two cables to your amp. Make sure the volume slider in your Windows audio mixer in your laptop is up full. The laptop is playing Biab and using the Biab on screen mixer you have complete control over individual instrument volumes and eq. Using a mouse, trackball or touchpad to adjust those while you're sitting and playing is a bit awkward but once you've set the levels for a few songs you should be good for everything else. You'll soon learn what the sliders in the mixer should look like. Since you're running Biab anyway, go ahead and mix some all midi songs with some all RT songs and some combination midi/RT songs. Piece of cake.
After you've done that for a few gigs, you may decide you don't like having your laptop running Biab live on stage with you but by then you know how to mix the songs for the venue and you can then use the laptop to create MP3's and use it to create song lists and play the MP3's. No need to run Biab live if you don't want to and if you don't want the laptop on stage in any capacity then pick up a stand alone MP3 player.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Wow! I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel! I'm going to do exactly what you said; will not deviate from it one bit. I've only been a registered user to the forums for a short time, but have already picked up some tips for imputing & tweeking my songs in BB. I like to surf through them & find people like myself & what I like to do. That is really a good reasorce. I'm not going to jump into this too deep to soon; I have to feel my way through it. I didn't mention this but I also play electric bass guitar & some fiddle. I know some other musicians but have never paid any attention to what they were doing with thier equipment. On the occasions when I've played with them they'd say: "Hey Russ, give me your cord & I'll plug it in over here", and that was it; out of my hands & out of my mind. It's embarassing to tell it. I'm 67 years old & have 2 grandaughters interested in music; I pay for the lessons & look forword to encoraging them. I gotta get a recording mic yet & will get over to the nearest Guitar Center store, a 60 mile trip 1 way, to talk to those guys. I was always too timid to ask them dumb questions, but thanks to you, I think I'm getting up the nerve. Thank you so much.
russ66
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Before you make a 60 mile trip Russ, what exactly do you want to ask them?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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About one of those newer USB mics that don't need what they call phantom power. I want to record my voice to harmonize it, then sing live with the harmonized part on some of my songs, but that won't be till later I need to get an extra patch cord & that mini plug stereo splitter you said & some other stuff. I have family in the area & I go there alot anyway. I plan to hook everything up like you said, then using that existing Cyote sinth in BB just to learn how to work everything, just for the physical mechanical parts of it if you know what I mean. Then I'll get that Forte sinth you talked about, and go from there. If everything works out & I like that, then I'll have saved some money & may consider selling my existing amp and getting a Bose system, which is way easier to lug around. Got that idea from surfing through the forums. Anyway, I like going in that place. I'm going to take advantage of some of the free classes they offer about just the stuff we've been talking about. I think I understand some of the basic terms & stuff a little better, enough so that it ain't all going over my head & I can ask the right questions. Let me know if you see any flaws in any of these my plans that I've just layed out. Thanks again.
russ66
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
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If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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