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#148720 - 01/29/12 06:43 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: Robh]
bobcflatpicker Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3357
Loc: WV, USA
+1 on Robh's suggestion.


Edited by bobcflatpicker (01/29/12 06:45 PM)
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Bob
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#148721 - 01/29/12 07:03 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: Kemmrich]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4390
Quote:

Libraries purchase books and only can only be checked out by one user at a time (even the electronic books have this restriction).





But does the author get a royalty EVERY TIME his hard work is enjoyed?
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#148722 - 01/29/12 07:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: silvertones]
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
All you have to do is get permission from the copyright holders and you can do what you want. Why is the creative sweat and tears (and the big bucks to record them) any different than any other endeavor? Hey, leave your tools outside or unlocked so I can come by and borrow them when I want. Just because you paid for them, I don't think you should be able to claim ownership over them.
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#148723 - 01/29/12 07:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: silvertones]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3357
Loc: WV, USA
"Copyright" is a two edged sword.

On one hand, it's a shame we can't share our renditions of old songs for educational purposes. I'm all for being able to do that. It could be kinda like teaching others a new song at a jam session.

...............

On the other hand, I started working on creating a series of music theory lessons in a BIAB format a while back with the intentions of copyrighting and selling them. But then it occurred to me, ... if I sell one copy, ..... then I may as well give the rest of them away.

Why bother working to create something and market it when folks just buy it once and then post it on Rapidshare for others to download for free?

That kinda dampens the creative spirit.

So, ...... we have the two edged sword.


Edited by bobcflatpicker (01/29/12 08:31 PM)
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Bob
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#148724 - 01/29/12 08:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: eddie1261]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Here's where this gets fun, Pat.

Eddie calls Pat and says "Hey I have a gig in 3 weeks and need a guitar player. I am going to send you a CD of the stuff we will need to learn. Nothing major. It's a themed "British Invasion" party we will be playing. Some Beatles, some Stones, some Herman's Hermits, some Freddy and the Dreamers, a couple by the Moody Blues, Peter and Gordon..."

By the letter of the law as you described it, I would be breaking the law by sending you a CD with the 40 songs we need to learn for the gig.




Yeah, it DOES get interesting. If you hand me the CD at band practice its technically illegal, but if nobody is aware of the transaction there would be very little (if any) risk of prosecution.

But if you MAIL it to me, it could be a federal offense on top of the copyright infringement.

But even then IMO there's very little risk of individuals without deep pockets being targeted for prosecution (unless they were already watching you for some other reason, in which case they might use it just to get you in custody)

Quote:



Now that brings up the question... HOW do I get the music to you? By the letter of the law, am I required to go out and buy you a copy of Meet The Beatles, Help, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper..... and then Sticky Fingers, Get Your Ya Ya's Out.... buy a copy of every CD from which songs are plucked?




IMO, that's a moot question because these guys aren't interested in small potatoes. But a company like PGMusic is a different story, and that's why we should diligently protect their best interests


Quote:

If that is the case, every cover band in the USA is guilty because songs get passed around for learning purposes many times every day.




yep, but small potatoes don't get much attention. Even in the peer to peer prosecutions, the only people who got singled out were those who had thousands of songs on their computers for anybody to snag

Quote:


Now, let's go one further because I like to get ridiculous and look at every possible scenario.

What if the show is all MY music? Would the players I recruit have to buy my CD to learn it and play it?





if it's your music and you own all the rights to it you can distribute it any way you want. How can you steal from yourself? WHo would press charges?

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#148725 - 01/29/12 08:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: silvertones]
kenbiab Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/15/11
Posts: 31
Loc: US East Coast
Personally, I'd just like to protect amateurs and hobbyists from the misguided and wholly unjustified wrath of corporate lawyers, while at the same time protecting the legitimate rights of composers to not be ripped off.

What I would ..love.. to see is something like a onetime lifetime license to cover anything on say the Spotify catalog with nominal distribution of perhaps 10,000 totally free downloads. Anything you charge for, not covered. Anything that would happen to go viral on youtube and perhaps cause damage to the artist, you'd have to either take down or figure out separately. But for 99% of hobbyists just looking to enjoy the playing of music with online friends, we could clear the unnecessary BS out of way.....
No?
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Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+
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#148726 - 01/29/12 08:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: kenbiab]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
you mention Youtube... I'm surprised that so many non-public domain songs are there, and nobody seems to be telling anybody to take them down.

Maybe that's the answer... post your songs on Youtube and PM the link to your buddies.

If you get contacted by a lawyer, then take it down.

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#148727 - 01/29/12 09:26 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: Pat Marr]
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4390
Quote:

if it's your music and you own all the rights to it you can distribute it any way you want. How can you steal from yourself? WHo would press charges?




With the lawyer I have, he would sue and I would take me for MILLIONS!!! I might even put myself in jail!!
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I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#148728 - 01/29/12 10:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: eddie1261]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
now there's a song waiting to be written

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#148729 - 01/30/12 01:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: Pat Marr]
Robh Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
Were any of you guys able to download the file and play it? just wondering?
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#148730 - 01/30/12 08:49 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Is there a way to share and discuss BIAB cover songs? [Re: Robh]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Scrolling through the discussion it seems all US based.

The world is a different place outside your borders.

We even have businesses that are here because of your litigious state(s).

Diamond Aircraft who make mostly 2 seat trainers is an example. 60 miles from the border. My buddy works there. The company has stated that they would prefer to be in the St. Louis area. But it is very much harder to sue a company based here. Our sandbox, our laws.

I have no qualms about sitting and discussing any details about the notes in bars 20 to 30 of Satin Doll. You cannot, even if the discussion resides on a hard drive, demand royalties for 'talking' about someone else's work. You don't have to pay every time you speak of what happened at 3:30 of a movie. You just can't play back any more than what is described by the 'doctrine of fair dealing.'

In Canada, our fair dealing exclusion to copywrite MAY include the whole 'song'. As long as the intention is acemdemic. But if I give you a weekly song in band in a box format, that plays the whole thing and we are really sharing then you NIX the fair dealing thing. You were then distributing the work.

It gets more confusing when it comes to performing the thing. No cover, no gate, then the bar or restaurant is already paying (here it's per seat and the total hours you are open). So the annual licence you get requires you to pay, or they will show up and shut your equipment down. (Maybe)

Confused? Add in other countries and you have more versions that you can shake a stick at.

My son the prof. tells me that the academic line in Canada is broad but restrictive and the American version is loose and less restrictive, so that in the end the result is close to the same. (Profs photocopy stuff or post it now on the web for almost every class).
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