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#171806 - 09/02/12 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: eddie1261]
jcspro40 Offline

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Ohio-USA
eddie1261, you sound like a very bitter person, and really I don't blame ya!

But the bottom line is that too many folks sat on there duffs when all of this legal garbage was being passed, and just like always, now that it has hit folks at home, the cry goes out "NOT FAIR!"

I was one of those folks that you hate, I played in 5 pickup bands & 2 "solid" original bands for over 20 years in the tri-state area (Ohio-PA-WV), mostly in the animal clubs & wedding...... it is how I made my living that last couple decades of my career. We were FAR from being clones of each other, one was country, one was classic rock (what DOES that mean?), and the rest were variety, covering everything from jazz to bluegrass, from rock to latin...

And I have no problem with that, it is called a business for a reason, and that is how I handled it, paperwork and all. Bottom line, it was my job.

Selling out? Not even close, we "pro's" that do it / did it for a living call it working.....

I had the 2 original bands that played music we wrote & loved, and that was in NO WAY a compromise to the music of the times. Has anyone heard of us? No, only a loyal following that bought our CD's & came to see us when we gigged, but it was on out terms, and we loved it, no regrets at all mainly because it was good for the soul.

"When you reach a place where you are straining to sell 350 tickets, maybe it's time to learn how to weld, sit back, and pray for royalties."

What utter nonsense.......

It seems like your view of being a pro & making it is totally different than today's reality. I applaud the bands that are still out there doing there best, even if their torch is barely burning anymore, just like the fans that pay the high prices in gas, food, & cd's that go to see them.

Bottom line, the music world will never be as open, free, and chance taking as it was back in the 60's - 80's, it is a fact that we have to deal for us, we will pay to see good artist no matter where they play, be it a coffee house, living room, rib burn-off, or a real-honest-to-goodness concert venue...and enjoy & appreciate every one of them!

Does my response sound harsh? Sorry if it does, but no more than your boo-hoo'ing about it instead of doing something about it.....
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#171807 - 09/02/12 06:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: jcspro40]
eddie1261 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 3829
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Not harsh at all. No more harsh than my original sounded. Opinions vary and people of a certain age understand the concept of being able to agree to disagree.

The comment about learning to weld just meant that there comes a time when it's over and like an athlete that plays 5 years past their prime and stinks the place out, a musician has to know when they don't have the juice anymore and not milk "one more tour" out of it with the brother-in-law of the cousin of the hair stylist's boyfriend as the "one remaining member". Is Styx really Styx without Dennis DeYoung? Is REO Speedwagon really REO Speedwagon without Gary Richrath? Is Journey really Journey without Steve Perry? Or The Tubes without Fee Waybill, Vince Welnick, or Prarie Prince? How dare these "ghosts of lineups past" tour and charge full price when the key members are no longer performing?

Many years back I opened for a nostalgia tour of Three Dog Night. Chuck Negrone was not with them due to some intense problems in his personal life. Danny Hutton and Cory Wells sounded great, but they were considerably less than amused when I asked them if they shouldn't call the band Two Dog Night without Chuck. I also opened for Alvin Lee, and though he WAS 10 Years After, he did not bill himself that way to sell tickets. And I opened for The Vogues several times playing that rib burnoff circuit and not one of the players or singers had ANY ties closer than second generation to The Vogues. One of them replaced someone who had replaced someone and then bought the name so legally he could keep it alive, and I supposed as long as it was legal it was okay, but still... If I go to see Jay & The Americans, I want to see Jay Black, not the guy who replaced the guy who replaced him. Of course at our age, a lot of them are dead or too old to perform. Some, like Frankie Valli, still touring at 78, still can.

Yes, the business has changed. There are very few "music clubs" in our area (and we are in the same place) and the places that DO have music don't treat bands well anymore, short paying, not keeping promises on booking, etc.... sad to see.
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

#171808 - 09/02/12 06:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: bobcflatpicker]
silvertones Offline

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7162

I think there’s a way around the BMI extortion that’s going on in the USA, but unfortunately it won’t be to the liking of most musicians, audiences or venues.

That is to simply to play ALL original music. The obvious problem is that most musicians aren’t songwriters and most of the ones who do write their own stuff aren’t even half way decent at it because all they know is memorizing something someone else wrote.

Add to that the fact that audiences want to hear something they know and venue owners want the same.

Maybe when the law was enacted, the intensions were good, but there were no doubt people behind the scenes supporting the law that had no other intension than to profit from it.

I have no problem with cracking down on people selling bootleg copies of music, but it gets ridiculous if a performer isn’t allowed to pick up an instrument and play “Sittin’ On The Dock of the Bay” for anyone who wants to listen. There’s far more damage done by music pirates than by someone playing covers at the bowling alley.

Common sense be d*mned. That is the American way in our legal system.

Not really Bob but it depends. I'll give you 2 examples. The nice lady at the Cafe was given the riot act about,"well how do YOU know that it's original? " etc. etc. and she caved and gave up the idea.
I have a friend that is a Director at the local, very prestigious, Folk School in my area. They were approached many years ago by BMI & ASCAP.He and the President and others basically told them to go do what Clint Eastwood said couldn't be done.That they have all traditional, non copy-written music & music in the public domain. If they didn't believe that they could just set up camp at the Campus and try and prove a violation. Never been bothered since.This is still another matter.Harrassing a local Cafe etc because some old guy is going to play some cover tunes to raise money for charity is just wrong. I feel it's totally against the "spirit" of the laws in place.
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#171809 - 09/02/12 08:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: silvertones]
Don Gaynor Offline

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7587
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
John, "spirit of the law" is what I'm wondering. Dare we sing covers in the shower if our neighbor can hear us? Some of my fondest memories are "family sing-alongs" on the front porch on hot summer evenings. Can the copyright cops arrest me for that? If a law is unenforceable, it's worthless. The "Prohibition Days" all over again.

#171810 - 09/02/12 09:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: Don Gaynor]
silvertones Offline

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7162
Except we're dealing with someone mightier then old Al. We're deal with the might of the Federal Gov.
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#171811 - 09/02/12 09:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: Don Gaynor]
jazzmammal Offline

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6345
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Eddie, just for the heck of it because I'm bored this afternoon, I just googled the music scene in the Cleveland area. There's tons of stuff going on, The Brothers Lounge, The Grog Shop, Peabody's, Nighttown and a lot more. I'm almost jealous because there's a lot more live places in and around Cleveland than I see here in LA. I also found a site that lists all the bands playing in these places and I even looked a few of them up and listened to a few tunes. Told ya I was bored. None of it is anything I think you would like to play. Why? Because you, me and most of us here have been out of it too long. The scene has moved on from us. First you would have to really work to try to get a gig with any of these acts and because of the generational age difference you probably wouldn't fit in. We're turning into our parents, man. They were big band people, they had absolutely no interest in the music you and I know and love so they completely blew off all those clubs we're so fond of from 30 years ago. The Stones or Santana didn't sound much like Glen Miller did they? Well, what's happening in your area now doesn't sound much like what you're used to either but make no mistake about it, there's a lot happening.

My point isn't to make you feel bad, because I mostly agree with you, it's just the type of stuff that sells now is not our stuff any more. Believe me none of these acts or certainly very few of them are playing Jimmy Buffet. I saw the Facebook page for one that talks about some classic R&B along with punk and techno. Sounds like an interesting act. If you really want to start gigging again, you have to get younger and hipper. All I'm saying is for you to say the music scene is dead around there is completely wrong. All you're really saying is there's nothing that you are interested in. If you don't believe me, check this website out:

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#171812 - 09/02/12 10:49 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: jazzmammal]
eddie1261 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 3829
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
You are right about one thing for sure, Bob. The scene WE knew in the 80s is dead and gone.

We used to have clubs here known as Spanky's east and west, Cyrus Erie, Hullabaloo, The Corral, The Stables, The Plato, farther back was The Cat's Meow, Leo's Casino.... the Cleveland Agora when it was really "The Agora" (The Agora now is a converted movie theater.), another in Akron, another in Youngstown.

Those were music clubs. BIG rooms that were meant for music. Those are all gone. What we have now is restaurants and a handful of bars who also serve food but only in the sense of true bar food. Those restaurants are really rough to play for because they want to turn that table ONE last time and in most cases you can't get in to set up until 7, and god forbid if you start one minute later than 9pm sharp.

There are some places that are mainly music rooms but very few. 1/2 are in the neighborhood bar class that are okay to play in but it's still a bar gig. Now, that being said, if you are after bar gigs, there's your rooms right there. For the bands that don't care to try writing anything original, and that isn't me but I do not disrespect those who choose to go that path, there are places to play that will at least make it worth your effort.

We have a web page here that lists the entertainment calendar. To look at the list it looks like a LOT of opportunity. Until you apply the local knowledge. For privacy I won't print the list but to look at at, I immediately see 22 of the bands listed as being made up of people in other bands who I can tell you do not rehearse at all with the lineup that will be playing. That will be a whole night of Stones, Skynard..... easy 3 chord stuff that can be stretched with long solos so they can get away with less songs per night by making them last 8 minutes each.

Then you have the folkie scene. Some decent places to play as far as who goes there, but bands in that genre may draw 40 people on a good night. The Barking Spider is the best example of that. No cover and they pass a bucket to pay the bands.

The ones you mentioned I will mention one at a time, Brothers is a nice room. The main room has a great house sound system. They get the better cover bands. It's in a good area as far as being fairly sure your car will be there when you leave. They also have a wine bar side which is quieter, piano/guitar solos and duos. They also house a songwriter night on Wednesdays where they have 10 people in to do 3 songs each. Very popular.

Nighttown is a more sophisticated kind of room. They will have light jazz acts in there and singers that either come in with a trio or canned music and do Broadway show tune type of music. It IS a restaurant but they serve some of the best food in town.

The Grog Shop is the carcass of a Brown Derby restaurant and they have more avante gard kind of acts in there. More alternative kinds of bands in there than anywhere else. It is in an area of town known as Coventry, a strip of very eclectic shops and restaurants.

Peabody's used to be a prime time room. 2nd tier national acts and better local jazz and offbeat bands played there.

There used to be an area here known as The Flats. There was an east bank and a west bank, one on each side of the Cuyahoga River. The east bank was the happening side, and I played for years all up and down that east bank. Then hip hop came in, the inner city trash took it over, and many armed robberies and shootings later they finally tore the whole strip down. It is in the middle of a huge renovation project that will likely hit a billion bucks when it's all done, laying heavily on gambling recently becoming legal in Ohio. A Casino opened downtown a couple of months ago, and as the eats bank rebuilds they will be looking to attract a higher class of establishment, I guarantee you with a HIGH level of police attention to keep the riff raff out. Toby Keith is putting a 20,000 sq ft club there. 4 other entertainment venues, 3 BIG name restaurants, a huge office building, loft apartments.... Toby Keith was key because we have a huge country following here and the top radio station is country, but there is no place of any quality to go hear country music on a day to day level. Big acts come in to the concert venues, but local country bands are stuck in small places in seedy parts of town. There is Mustang Salli's out in the burbs, and The Dusty Armadillo, even further in the burbs. Nice big places for country bands, but nothing downtown. Country bands usually get stuck in the VFW and Eagles clubs playing for $250. For 5 guys.

We have a GREAT concert scene as far as national acts goes. A 20,000 seat venue downtown where the Cavs also play, Blossom Music Center, an outdoor venue 30 miles south of Cleveland, 2 outdoor stages downtown... it's just the scene for the local level player that has gone downhill. There is one decent place to do small hall concerts on the west side (Winchester) one east (Beachland Ballroom - but make sure you have an armed guard when you load out. Gear gets stolen there EVERY weekend.), and one south in Akron, The Civic Theater.

There IS a scene here, but it is WAY too wrapped around jam night. There are 3-4 jam nights every week. I just have a MAJOR attitude about giving music to bars for free. And them complaining when there are no paying gigs. There would be probably 25% more gigs in town if the wannabes would quit giving it away on jam night.

You hit the major issue. I am old. What I liked at 21 and 31, even 41 when I was playing Motown, I don't like at 61. My time is long since past. A young girl at my job was telling me about some festival she went to. She listed the names off her program. I did not know ONE band name. My iPod? Beatles, Beach Boys, Rundgren, Police, EW&F, AWB, Steinman/Meatloaf, Hall & Oates, Huey Lewis, Springsteen, Southside, Talking Heads.... I like what I know and I know what I like.
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

#171813 - 09/02/12 11:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: eddie1261]
bobcflatpicker Offline

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
There’s a genre of music of live music that’s actually growing in the US of A.

It doesn’t happen at the local bars. Nor at the civic center. But it does sometimes happen at the local churches or high school gyms, ... and very frequently at homes.

It happens at festivals all across the country in the late spring through early fall. It’s old, … it’s “traditional”, it has “covers”, songs that are WAY past the copyright, and it has tons of NEW tunes.

It’s a mix of acoustic country, blues, western swing, Irish, jazz and folk.

It’s called “Bluegrass”. It’s also a lot of fun.

FWIW, the listeners are generally VERY attentive.

Bluegrass fans don't show up for the "ambiance" or something they can talk over while they eat hor d'oeuvres, ... they show up for the MUSIC! LOL.

They're a musician's dream as far as an audience is concerned.

#171814 - 09/03/12 09:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: bobcflatpicker]
MusicStudent Offline

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5385
Loc: Chicago
I am starting to understand, it is not music which is disappearing - it is us!

And on that somber note, I probably will need to send a royalty check to Dylan Thomas for posting the following:

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

#171815 - 09/03/12 10:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Pat Marr Offline

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7436
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC

There’s a genre of music of live music that’s actually growing in the US of A.

(snip)It’s called “Bluegrass”. It’s also a lot of fun.

Funny you should say that, Bob. Around here bluegrass is everywhere. I went to a McDonald's a week ago, and there was a bluegrass band playing in the corner.

I went to a BBQ restaurant and they also had a bluegrass band playing a couple of nights per week.

In both cases, many of the customers were clearly there specifically because of the music. On the down side, bluegrass doesn't help me find venues for backing tracks made with BIAB, since this crowd is notoriously resistant to any form of music that requires electricity.

Update: I just called the BBQ restaurant. Somebody shut them down (musically) for a licensing infraction. So I guess not even Bluegrass is immune to the disease


#171816 - 09/03/12 10:17 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: MusicStudent]
eddie1261 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 3829
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I love that poem and read it often.

Many choose to just ease off into the sunset. I am going out kicking and screaming.

I lived my life in a cantankerous manner. I will die the same way!

It has been reported, though I can't confirm, that at my birth, when the doctor slapped my butt to wake me up I turned around and hit him back. Kids usually say mama or dada as their first word. I would have to guess mine was probably "&^%$&^ YOU!!", likely directed to my sister, who I have not liked since the day I was born. And as life went on, dislike has crossed into something more deeply seeded.

So as far as that relates to music, will I accept that it is what it is, but I don't have to like it and I will continue to be vocal and outspoken. I don't associate with people who participate in jam night based on the philosophical perspective to which I espouse about giving clubs music for free. They are supposed to pay professional musicians for their work. I have never been to a jam night and will never attend one. Attending constitutes supporting, and I choose to avoid them. Nobody misses me, my choosing to not attend does not ruin the event, and for the most part it's usually wannabe players who know "those 3 songs" and just want to feel relevant. I will go to songwriter nights on occasion, because at songwriter night I can be pretty sure I won't hear Brown Eyed Girl and Mustang Sally.
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

#171817 - 09/03/12 10:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: silvertones]
rockstar_not Offline

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7206
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but I see a common thread to the replies:

People just don't feel like going to see/listen to unfamiliar people play familiar songs.

They are spoiled by the availability of better than average sound being carried around.

You can trash .mp3 compression as a poorly done rendition of the original recording - but on the other hand, mp3 compression and playback systems have RAISED the quality of playback for the average joe that used to use a transistor AM radio and have given that same guy/girl instant access to the songs they want to hear. Not for the audiophile, of course - though now there are ways to obtain lossless FLAC files for them. Same if you compare to the walkman era of cassette playback which was popular in my youth.

Don't have to wait for it to play on the radio.

If you want it legally, it costs $0.99 and of course if you want it illegally, it costs a whole lot less than that.

Instant, on-demand song of choice by your artist of choice. Yes, it's kind of anti-social. Used to be it was fun and cool to go to a club to hear a band. But now everyone wants to hear it identically to the original, by the original artist, perhaps because that's what they feed their ears.

It's like the complaining about the dearth of album/CD sales. Much of it is because people consume music a la carte. Pick the faves from an album and buy them.

People share playlists now instead of mix tapes.

I tip my hat to you if you were able to make a living playing other people's music. I think that era is likely over.

Also, someone up in the thread stated that my view of home concerts was utopian. Sorry, I'm speaking from personal experience. I have not experienced the drunks in the garage thing. I wouldn't do that either.

But again, the focus is entirely different. It's original music being shared amongst friends and acquaintances. Very little money changes hands. It's for the enjoyment of new art - some of it good, some of it bad. For some reason, I continue to be attracted to new music. I could snap a picture of my CD collection for y'all, and I've got my 70's rock in there, almost nothing but U2 from the 80's, fusion/jazz from the 90's, and more and more new folk rock from time periods after that. I supplement with standards and what I can find at the Goodwill store CD section.

However, lately, I've been absolutely loving what the kids call dubstep, even though what passes for that term today doesn't match it's namesake music. I don't care, it's today's version of synthesizer music with lots of playful and creative use of filter sweeps, stacked synth layers, etc. Makes my brain come to life. Quite a bit of odd-time sequences played over even time signatures. One could even call it experimental, but it's popular.

I enjoy non-denigrating, non-misogynistic, non-boasting rap music. Yes, I call it music. It does exist, and the creativity I recognize in it is rich. Probably my favorite group is Deepspace 5 and all of their associated artists.

I enjoy the heavy funk of Soulive and Niacin and can't wait to see what twist they will bring with the next releases, all using both old (B3) and new (who knows what they use) technology with NEW songs.

I even enjoy the machine-gun rapid fire (one could recognize baroque aspects if they were willing to) musicianship of my son's favorite genre; metalcore. I can't stand the 'growling', but when the guitarist (who usually has a GREAT rock voice) kicks in singing, I can totally dig that stuff. That's one of the formulas of this genre; the 'singer' usually guturally growls lyrics, and the guitarist can usually hold his own with Steve Perry belts out some melody on the chorus. I let one of these bands crash on my living room floor earlier this year - band's name is Righteous Vendetta - look them up to see something entirely different from rap, jazz, folk rock, dubstep, etc.

Back on topic. Something else that I think the public expects from live performance nowadays is a spectacle, not just an audible experience. Whether it's the gold lame jackets with the band with the insane drummer (Rick K. and the Allnighters), or it's the latest Vegas Show On Wheels from U2 or the like, this is what people think is 'live' music.

Again, this is nothing new under the sun however. The definition of what is spectacle changes over time and it seems to get more grandiose and cost more money to produce, but it's spectacle all the same.

For something different, try home concerts of the flavor I speak of. Attend. Pay into the hat. Buy a home-grown CD from the artist. Support the scene you want to see thrive.

I was at the Santa Monica pier and the promenade a couple weeks ago. Talent on the pier was absolutely awful. However, a kid was out in front of the Converse store in the street with a classical guitar plugged into a little amp through a tiny Behringer mixer. Kid had a John Mayer vibe but with a better voice and from what I could tell from the song he was singing, was doing originals. I didn't even listen through one song - saw he was selling self-made CDs for 5 bucks. I gave him a fiver and took one of his CDs. Haven't listened to it yet - I'll report back with his name on whether or not it's any good. Live, he was good.

Back on topic again, sort of. I did hear a cover band a few months ago that was HOT. Insanely good musicians and brought it perhaps better than the original artists; song after song. The band was out of Denver and called "Alive on Arrival". Here's their page/schedule. They were playing at one of the best venues in Colorado Springs (for weddings), the Garden of the Gods club.


#171818 - 09/03/12 10:42 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: rockstar_not]
Mac Offline

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Perhaps the general public is becoming more educated as to their musical tastes due to all the newer technologies such as the internet -- and are demanding more from talent these days.

Let. Us. Pray.

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You must be Audiominds.

#171819 - 09/03/12 11:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: rockstar_not]
eddie1261 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 3829
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio

People just don't feel like going to see/listen to unfamiliar people play familiar songs.

For me it isn't so much that it's cover music but that every band plays the same song list.


Same if you compare to the walkman era of cassette playback which was popular in my youth.

That makes me start thinking that this topic is largely generational. The Walkman was in your youth. I was 30 when it came out.


I tip my hat to you if you were able to make a living playing other people's music. I think that era is likely over.

In my part of the country it is 180 degrees opposite. In 99% of the venues you are required to play ONLY music the audience knows.


I could snap a picture of my CD collection for y'all, and I've got my 70's rock in there, almost nothing but U2 from the 80's, fusion/jazz from the 90's, and more and more new folk rock from time periods after that.

Again becoming generational, but also possibly just ME and my generational perspective. I have one iPod Shuttle (the green one - green like an apple) that is 100% Beatles. The other one (the silver one - silver for no reason) is all funk and soul. I rarely listen to anything I consider "corporate bow down to the man" bands who just cranked out album after album of music that sounded the same because their contract said they had to produce one album per year. Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, U2... they all crossed that line early on. I liked U2 early on, but are they ever going to play anything other than that one groove? I saw a cover band one night do a spoof where they did a song called "I still haven't found the street I am looking for because the streets have no name" where they "intermeshed" those 2 songs into one and it was great, funny and beautifully done. The point is, how sad is it that you can almost overlay one over the other and not notice?


However, lately, I've been absolutely loving what the kids call dubstep

WTF is dubstep? I have steps, but I never dubbed them with any other name than steps.


Probably my favorite group is Deepspace 5 and all of their associated artists. I enjoy the heavy funk of Soulive and Niacin and can't wait to see what twist they will bring with the next releases, all using both old (B3) and new (who knows what they use) technology with NEW songs.

Once again, generational. Who is Deepspace 5 and why do they have associated artists? Niacin? Isn't that a pain killer pill or some nutritional component of milk or something?


the guitarist can usually hold his own with Steve Perry

Did you mean Joe Perry?


Kid had a John Mayer vibe

And you bought his CD anyway? John Mayer should join Kenny G and Michael Bolton on the national Wimpathon Tour. Boy got no soul!!

As Mr Mammal said, it's us old goats that are disappearing, not the scene. I won't venture far from my house to hear a cover band anymore, yet I will drive 45 minutes to songwriter night. I have a lot of friends in copy bands who ask why I never come out, and my reply is the same every time. "You guys are doing the same songs IN THE SAME ORDER that you did when I knew you in 1986! Give me a REASON to come out. Excite me musically. Stimulate my mind." (More importantly, "YOU don't come to see ME at our reunion. Why? Because we play a concert venue and charge for tickets and you play bars with no cover? PS. We sell that room out every year. Playing half originals.") As I said in an earlier post, bands are not really bands anymore. They are just guys who throw together a 4 piece and go wing it. That is not aurally exciting to me to listen to a band that doesn't end songs together because they never rehearsed how they will end a song that faded out in the original. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE sloppy bands. Rehearsal makes you tight. Rehearse. One of the best bass players in town plays in 4 bands. None of them are any good. All of them COULD be if they would focus on one band and rehearse, but there is no pay for rehearsal, so they won't do it. Yet those same guys go to jam night and play free.

Bottom line, people still care about their music, but most care about the money first. I make enough money at my job to live comfortably and music has not crossed the line out of a love for the art and into a need for supplemental income. I am like Mike Holmes. "If you're gonna do it, do it right."
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

#171820 - 09/03/12 12:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Disappearing music. [Re: eddie1261]
Westside Steve Offline

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 349
Loc: Shores of Lake Erie
[b]Westside Steve

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PG Music News
Have Your Band-in-a-Box® Delivered In Time for Christmas!

The gift of music... some say this is the greatest gift of all! Imagine receiving the tools to help you create your own music for Christmas... like Band-in-a-Box!

If you are in the United States or Canada, order Band-in-a-Box before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 21st for Express delivery in time for Christmas.

If you are outside of North America, order before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 19th for Express delivery in time for Christmas.

With major savings and Bonus PAKs until December 31st, it's a great time to purchase Band-in-a-Box upgrades as a gift for someone you know... or for yourself!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

We have put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49)

User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication:

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me":

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 49 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts more than 50 new features... and a lot of the new features fill the requests posted by program users!

Some of these include:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I love the Audio Chord Wizard, as it figures out chords from mp3 and other audio files. But it is a separate program from Band-in-a-Box, and I can’t go back and forth to change things easily.

A. We've solved that, as BiaB 2018 has integrated the Audio Chord Wizard directly into Band-in-a-Box. Now load an audio file into BiaB, open the Audio Edit Window – Audio Chord Wizard mode, and let it automatically figure out the bar lines and chords for the song.

Q. I like to save songs as MP3 files, and can't do this with BiaB, except a very low quality one, 64kbps.

A. We've improved this, by adding support for Windows Media Foundation. This allows you to save MP3 in your choice of resolutions, up to very high 320mpbs. Better still, it works on current versions of Windows (Windows 7,8,10) and also on older versions too (Vista, XP).

We've answered 49 questions - review all of these answers on our forum post "49 of your Problems solved? List of 49 Requests fulfilled in Band-in-a-Box 2018" here.

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows can be reviewed at

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

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