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#184184 - 12/14/12 06:54 PM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: pariahdise]
MusicStudent Offline

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5458
Loc: Chicago
Well you know what I think...

#184185 - 12/15/12 09:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: MusicStudent]
JoanneCooper Online   content

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2109
Loc: South Africa
loved it!

#184186 - 12/15/12 09:47 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: JoanneCooper]
floyd jane Offline

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5434
Loc: Florida
ROG - thank you for that. Nice hearing that from you.

jazzmandan - I guess I do, you've been very kind. Still nice to have you "drop by for a listen".

Joanne - appreciate that.
125+ BIAB Songs

#184187 - 12/15/12 09:49 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
floyd jane Offline

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5434
Loc: Florida

First, thank you for that. It's nice to know that someone believes that I'm at least getting close to what I am trying to achieve.

You made me chuckle a bit. I am, like you. "just a working stiff". And the good news is... I don't have "the expensive stuff". Almost all of my "sound" - what you hear - comes from BIAB. The credit belongs to Peter and the people at PGMusic and the incredible musicians that they have given us. I will do my best to explain what I can....

I have no "secrets". So I'm more than willing to share whatever I can. (This may get long, so bear with me). That's what this forum is for (I believe). To share and learn from each other.

Like I said, I don't have expensive stuff. Quite the contrary, I'm probably on the low end of most of the people here. My computer is 10 years old and can't always handle all that BIAB wants to throw at it. XP and 2G of ram. The side is off because the plastic clips that hold the heat sink to the CPU chip broke a long time ago and I have to make sure it doesn't move off of it or my computer won't boot. I had to scrape and save in order to buy BIAB - which I got at the 2012.5 release (that seems to be the only time a discount wasn't offered, so it wasn't easy).

I typically start by getting a drum track and a bass track that fits the feel of the song. I believe that they are the foundation of the song. But that may be just the area that I "work in" - let's call it "commercial country music". Add a guitar - either acoustic or electric, depending on the song itself, and you've got all you really need. Everything else is what I consider "sweetening". It's your "basic track". I drag those from BIAB to a folder. Those then go into a DAW. I use Sony Acid Pro because I've had it for years. There are a lot of people here that swear by Reaper and a friend of mine told me it's very similiar (and likes it better). That's for mixing. It's got a lot of super-duper fancy things, but I don't use most of what's available. Mostly, I just turn things "on or off". Many of the RealTracks play "more stuff than what I want". So, sometimes, I need to "turn them off". Keep them from getting in the way. The volume envelope in the DAW provides that functionality. Most DAWs come with at least basic effects (EQ, reverb, compressor,etc). I don't use much of that, either. Typically, I will EQ the drums just a bit, to give the snare a bit more "pop". But that is pretty much it. The tracks are, for the most part, exactly what comes out of BIAB. I chose to leave the BIAB reverb set where it is - some people turn it off before rendering them. I do set all the volumes to max (127) and center everything, before the "drag and drop", so I can choose where they sit in the mix.

Before adding the "sweetening tracks" (guitar licks, fiddle licks, that sort of thing), I record the vocals. I do have "a bit of money invested" here - and I think it is one of the more important places to "put your money". I have a condensor mic and a decent mic pre-amp. They cost about $400 apiece - 20 years ago - that's how long I've had them. I would think you can find something comparable on craigslist for around $150 each (just guessing). And there are people here who get very good sound from much cheaper mics (Robert posted a song recently that he says he did with a $13 mic - and it sounds good to my ears).

I add the vocals to the mix and usually some harmonies. Usually I try what I call "the BIABettes" first. Load the BIAB chords into RealBand, add my vocal track, and use the TC Helicon plugin to generate harmonies. That sometimes sounds good and sometimes not - depends on the song. If it doesn't work, I'll do a harmony myself.

Mix that to a good place. Then start finding the "leads and licks" to fill out the song. So I guess you could say I "mix in stages". If it sounds good with the basic rhythm tracks and the vocal then the rest is just a little icing.

So, that's the mixing. And that's about it. I don't do any "mastering". It's just the mix. And it's mostly, just the BIAB tracks. It's the "sound" I'm looking for.

From what I can tell with your stuff, you do most of the guitar work (I could be wrong about that), so that "flavors" your songs. And I like your sound! It has a personal, unique quality to it that, I think, fits your material well. It has a "raw" quality that is very cool. Your lyrics are interesting with a "rawness" that fits right in with your overall sound. There are occassionally places where you have to "rush" to fit the words in and the lyric might benefit from a little different wording to "eliminate some syllables", but they are still "thoughtful and interesting". And, like I said, I like the "uniqueness" of your sound.

I choose to use the BIAB guys for my guitar sounds. I can play adequately (acoustic well) but I cannot get the "polished sound" that BIAB provides. I don't have the equipment necessary to get a good electric tone. And I certainly cannot play like Brent can!

In the "Tips and Tricks" section, there is a thread called "Recording Vocals" that explains my "mic setup" and how I record my vocals. Others have added their "methods" as well. Also, in that section, Steve Young has a thread called "Mixing Tips" which is very good. Find and listen to some of Steve's songs - they are VERY well done - better than mine, I think.

Hope that explains it to some degree....


Edited by floyd jane (12/15/12 09:56 AM)
125+ BIAB Songs

#184188 - 12/15/12 11:37 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
F.M.M. Offline

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 1065
hi love your songs all well done great listen eric

#184189 - 12/15/12 01:11 PM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
pariahdise Offline

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Naples FL

Hope that explains it to some degree....


yeah, encouraging info, thank you, my curiosity has been sufficiently quenched by your response. It's one thing to compare my sound quality with let's say the most popular commercial artists of the day, and think to myself, well hell, that should be expected from a studio, analogue engineered recording, produced by professionals with unlimited resources, which has been mastered ultimately, to achieve what I call 'radio punch' on machinery which cost, I dunno, anywhere from $7,000 on up, and so why should I think I can compete? But, it's another thing totally, to hear the quality of your songs among some others present here and still find my sound quality uncomfortably deficient sounding.

I am not talking about anything but the drop-off of volume or punch of my work compared to some others here.

The only thing I am left wondering is when you say you put the volumes of your tracks at 127, where is it that you do that exactly, and don't you worry about 'clipping' is it? Or, distortion? How do you offset it? If I raise the volume of my tracks over 100 in power tracks, my VU meter spends quite a bit of time in the red zone. Are you saying that you raise the volume of the BIAB tracks in BIAB?

Last tech question for me while in the 'User Showcase':)

#184190 - 12/15/12 01:48 PM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: pariahdise]
floyd jane Offline

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5434
Loc: Florida
>>> Are you saying that you raise the volume of the BIAB tracks in BIAB?

Yes, in BIAB before rendering them. I bring up the little "mixer box" and set all the volumes full (to the far right). That has never caused any clipping - not even close.

Hope that helps.
125+ BIAB Songs

#184191 - 12/15/12 03:01 PM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
Tano Music Offline

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 323
Loc: Charlotte, NC
THoroughly enjoyed listening...both as a casual "listener" and also as a BIAB user..I can't think of a single thing that I would change--arrangement, structure, lyric, performance, use of BIAB..all top-notch. Thanks--this kind of work encourages me to keep workin' at it!

#184192 - 12/16/12 09:00 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: Tano Music]
floyd jane Offline

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5434
Loc: Florida
eric - thanks for the listen

Tano - glad you found something here you liked. You are doing some very interesting stuff, yourself...
125+ BIAB Songs

#184193 - 12/17/12 12:13 AM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
Noel96 Offline

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 12287
Loc: Australia
Hi Floyd,

Yet another exceptional listen! When it comes to consistently professional work on all levels, you're the star of this forum, in my opinion. Really excellent. What stood out to me with this one was the rhyme scheme you used. While the rhymes satisfied my ear with a very satisfying lyrical journey, they did not impact on the conversational tone of the lyrics at all. Very clever writing.

All the best,

#184194 - 12/18/12 11:13 PM [User Showcase] Re: It Could Be [Re: floyd jane]
jptjptjpt Offline

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 192
Wow, I'm finding it hard to keep up with all the new BIAB songs. I check about every week or so but I see that isn't enough.

This is another well written song. Great use of BIAB. I hope you are submitting these to some pros. You are going to hit it big with one of these. Great hooks. Great lyrics. Keep on trucking, dude. You'll sell one or more sooner or later.

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