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#187771 - 01/08/13 09:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1017
Loc: NYC
Quote:

<<< I personally don't really need every conceivable country or bossa rhythm guitar pattern in realtrack format

Fair enough, but with 1,100 RealTracks to date, we have lots more than country and bossa.






I for one, would like some good flamenco' and 'Latin' styles, and a list of the 'kickass' best of styles, so I don't have to go previewing through 1100 styles to find the most realistic.

I have a 'rocker'/'blues' friend who comes over, and whenever he comes over, I begin touting the amazing aspects of the program, and then I go and try to find some 'best of' style demo tracks for him to jam over (because he's far better than me at this point - and I want to give him the backup to watch and learn what he does).

Now - I'm the first guy to say that I haven't put the time needed into previewing all the 1100 styles to find my favorites. Not that I don't plan to, either, but until I get that time to preview, select, and tweak - surely, of these 1100 styles, there must be a top 10 or 20 in each genre that most musicians will agree are the "best of", and you could save a lot of time pouring through the 1100 and get busy making music with your friends if there was just a couple of lists of them, maybe put together by the very users on this forum ; )

Let me just say in advance - I'm not lazy, just busy with lots of other things. Somehow, my friend and I always revert to downloading a .MID from the Internet, and it always sounds way better than the style demos. And it's not just because we 'know' the songs already - the mix itself sounds better, more energetic and 'groovin'.

Again - maybe it's still my lack of experience and putting the time and tweaking in to discover the right tracks. So I'll end with this question (I've posted separate thread on it, but no takers

For my 'rocker' dude friend, who plays in the style of Cream, Stones, Stevie Ray, Hendrix, Zeppelin, please share 5 or so what BB Styles / RealTracks styles that sound 'kickass' and will inspire his soloing.

Lastly - regarding Latin styles, I mentioned I have an excellent teacher that could potentially program some killer flamenco styles. Now it seems to me that on this forum, there hasn't been a lot of interest generated in my flamenco-related posts. So although this guy is the calibur of musician that could generate killer flamenco tracks in BB Styles/RealTracks, I'm pretty sure PG wouldn't find it a great investment given the demand (or lack thereof) in flamenco music (if they would, I'll contact my teacher and ask if he's interested). But expanding the style set to "Latin", and including Rumba rhythms (a la Gypsy kings) and Latin rhythms (Strunz and Farah),Bossa (is covered good enough already, I think) - hek, maybe even some other World beats like Indian (bollywood or tablas) - he he he, now I'm really moving to left field. But how many Indian people and Chinese people in the world might need a backing band ? I think culturally, they value education and music far more than we here in America.

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#187772 - 01/08/13 09:24 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11188
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

Cerio puts some truth on some word.


Plenty of young - and serious - musicians out there.


--Mac




When I started playing guitar years ago there were no guitar teachers in our area. Now there are at least 5 treaching music sudios that I know of and I’ll bet that there is even more. Plus these also teach other instruments. The reading music base has expanded in this area.
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#187773 - 01/08/13 09:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
Keith from Oz Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2195
Loc: NSW Australia
Quote:

Cerio puts some truth on some word.


Plenty of young - and serious - musicians out there.


--Mac



My niece is 16, and has just passed her 6th grade piano with honours. Obviously classically trained.
But what does she listen to after practice is over?
RAP!
I have trouble getting my (old) head around that.
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Keith

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#187774 - 01/08/13 09:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: MarioD]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1017
Loc: NYC
Going back one more time to a previous post where I ask if there are more 'interactive' ways to practice and learn piano rather than looking at sheet music exercises and DVD's - wouln't band in a box be the perfect complement to reading (piano) exercises in getting to know the piano keyboard layout without looking at the actual piano keyboard ? At one level, this doesn't teach you to read notes on the staff, but at another, by seeing and emulating the (piano) music visually displayed on the BB/RB keyboard, and trying to play it without looking at your fingers, assuming you are reviewing the names of the notes internally in your head - is this not a wonderful way to complement your reading studies while making it it more fun, interactive, and using the power of the computer to do so ? I think there's a guitar where the frets light up, and a piano where the keys light up - similar concept, except then your dependent on looking at the instrument itself. BB/RB is one step of improvement (for the disciplined practitioner) in that it teaches you to memorize the instrument without looking at it - something very difficult without a little help at the beginning (all this just coming from my imagination - as you all know, I haven't learned to play the piano yet, just practiced reading some scales and gotten bored quickly - looking for a more fun interactive way, maybe as I've described above).

Let me know what you think of the above as a complement to any music program.

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#187775 - 01/08/13 09:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:


My niece is 16, and has just passed her 6th grade piano with honours. Obviously classically trained.
But what does she listen to after practice is over?
RAP!
I have trouble getting my (old) head around that.




My dad didn't understand (nor like) me listening to Miles, Jimi, Diz, Stevie, BS&T, CTA, Beatles, Cream, just about anything on the pop, soul and rock radio as well, back when I was a high school student practicing Classical musics.

So what?

The kids gotta get along with her generation.

And, if Pop would have even feigned interest in such, well, as the kids say today, "ewwwww..."



--Mac
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#187776 - 01/08/13 09:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7525
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Plenty of young - and serious - musicians out there.




and they are all potential customers for PGMusic products, which is exactly why I answered the thread's original question as "Why don't the younger users of PGMusic products have a presence on the forum?" instead of "why don't young people use PGMusic products?"

we are taking about two or three different things at the same time. Kids who are trained musically have probably been introduced to BIAB by their music teachers at some point, and will most likely continue using it, because it is without a doubt the one music product that is aimed at all the classic music styles that trained kids have been taught.

Kids who are untrained musically seem to gravitate in a different direction. It's always easier to find more untrained people than trained people, so the youth market is skewed in the direction of kids who like music but don't know anything about it except which programs their friends acquired illegally or got bundled with some device they bought at Guitar Center.


<insert standard anti kid disclaimer here>

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#187777 - 01/08/13 09:51 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
When I was their age, I wanted to be around others my age.

The girls had a lot to do with that (ya think?)

My prediction is that today's youngsters will get around to things like this when its time to get around to things like this. Well, a certain percentage of the whole.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#187778 - 01/08/13 10:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7525
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Regarding all the peanut gallery opinions about "what PGMusic ought to do..."

I've NEVER heard anybody say they didn't upgrade because the interface didn't change, but you OFTEN hear people say they didn't upgrade because the current batch of styles or real tracks didn't meet their needs. Sales are fired by functionality more than by form...

( except among posers. like the ones who have a $3,000 guitar but can't play it. But DANG, it SHO NUFF LOOKS GOOD! they value form over function. But PGMusic's products are a function-filled suite of musical tools that wouldn't appeal to that crowd anyway. So why devote resources appealing to them??)

A privately owned company with limited resources and a global customer base needs to spend its resources wisely, investing time and money in the things that add true value to the functionality of the product.

I'm glad they focus on additions that help me make music instead of changes that make their product look like the rest of the sheep in the pasture.

"Baaaaaaaaa". (I don't see PGMusic ever saying that.)

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#187779 - 01/08/13 10:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Don Gaynor Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7896
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Quote:

Regarding all the peanut gallery opinions about "what PGMusic ought to do..."

I've NEVER heard anybody say they didn't upgrade because the interface didn't change, but you OFTEN hear people say they didn't upgrade because the current batch of styles or real tracks didn't meet their needs. Sales are fired by functionality more than by form...

( except among posers. like the ones who have a $3,000 guitar but can't play it. But DANG, it SHO NUFF LOOKS GOOD! they value form over function. But PGMusic's products are a function-filled suite of musical tools that wouldn't appeal to that crowd anyway. So why devote resources appealing to them??)

A privately owned company with limited resources and a global customer base needs to spend its resources wisely, investing time and money in the things that add true value to the functionality of the product.

I'm glad they focus on additions that help me make music instead of changes that make their product look like the rest of the sheep in the pasture.

"Baaaaaaaaa". (I don't see PGMusic ever saying that.)




Well put, Pat!

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#187780 - 01/09/13 09:42 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Don Gaynor]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13455
>> and a list of the 'kickass' best of styles, so I don't have to go previewing through 1100 styles to find the most realistic.

That's what the Band Button (on the main page) is for Joe. It gives the best styles (all RealTracks, no MIDI), and they are sorted by genre and feel. It is a menu, so you don't even need to open a dialog. Should be able to get to a style in a few seconds, and there is also a menu item there to load in a song demo for the style you just loaded.
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PG Music Inc.

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#187781 - 01/09/13 11:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Robh Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
More guitar solos like say Beachboys, Berry, then moving forward more easy rock and pop like the Dire RT tracks, but differet licks and sounds. Although i am sure i can change that up with the raw tracks and amplitude.

I still think Oohs and Aahs would be a big addition
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#187782 - 01/09/13 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
Quote:

<<< I personally don't really need every conceivable country or bossa rhythm guitar pattern in realtrack format

Fair enough, but with 1,100 RealTracks to date, we have lots more than country and bossa




Thanks for your answer, Peter. Please, don't misunderstood me. I use jazz reaktracks all day to study my instrument, and I love them. Then I, like many others, use BIAB as a tool to create backingtracks, or to generate single instruments tracks for other projects. If I want to work, say, in a jazz/bossa/country project, there's no problem, I have plenty of options in BIAB. But if I'm working out of the scope of these styles, then is not always so easy getting what I want out of BIAB, and I usually need to look elsewhere.

As an studio tool, I personally see BIAB as a great collection of virtual instruments. The more versatility I have style-wise, the more value has the product (at leadt for me).


Quote:


<<< but will be more than happy buying new sets covering

<<< - classic disco music (think Nile Rodgers)

we don't have this, but it would be good to add

<<< - , funk music (think James Brown or The Crusaders)

We do have 4 RT sets of jazz funk (Jeff Lorber, Alex Al, etc.)
And more are planned.


>>> afrocuban music (danzon, mambo, son...)

We have Guajira, Bolero, SonMuntono. These are all RealTracks, done by Rebeca Mauleon (piano) and other great players.

>>> brazilian music (samba-reggae, brazilian funk....)

Good ideas.




That's great news. I love Rebecca Mauleon Santana and Jeff Lorber realtracks, and I'd love to see more of them. Disco, funky and new brazilian styles would be fantastic.

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#187783 - 01/09/13 02:57 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Cerio]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17405
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Cerio, the 'new Brazilian styles' interests me, of course. This could mean a lot of things, from the electronic-influenced sounds starting fifteen years ago or so, to anything they are doing now (Dani Gurgel, for example). What I've had success with is posting in the Styles Wishlist and supplying specific artists and even song snippets, so PG Music hears what I'm requesting. Maybe if you place specific suggestions there, I can support and contribute to the request.
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#187784 - 01/09/13 05:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Matt Finley]
KeithS Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 896
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
What brought me in as a BIAB customer in the first place was the wide variety of styles available when it was just a MIDI based application. I'll have to admit that I was extremely skeptical when the Real Tracks were introduced but as the number grew and I began using them in conjunction with my large loop library, I became a believer and I purchase the audiophile version each time it is offered. I'm always eagerly awaiting the next release to see what new styles and Instruments have been added. Frankly I could give a rip about the GUI. It doesn't look as sleek and professional as any other windows application that I run but it gets the job done and that is all that counts.

I'm into Country, Blues, Pop, and Rock and Roll and as well as those have been covered by Real Tracks there will never be enough for me. So as long as those offerings continue to expand and I'm still earning a paycheck I'm going to keep on ordering the new releases as they become available. I'm okay with the fact that there are other interests that need to be catered to other than mine but I buy all the styles and actually play with them even. If I don't incorporate them into my playing. I've actually made my largest strides as a musician by forcing myself to play styles of music that I wasn't particularly interested in.

I think the one of the main reasons that the PG Music offerings are what they are at this time is that through these forums they listen and respond to their customer's wants and needs with real and substantial changes. I can't answer why there are so many of us old timers here influencing the evolution of the program but I think the if the make up the forum did change, you probably would see pressure applied towards offering a quite different set of styles.
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BIAB 2018 Audiophile
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#187785 - 01/09/13 06:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: KeithS]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1017
Loc: NYC
Quote:

and a list of the 'kickass' best of styles, so I don't have to go previewing through 1100 styles to find the most realistic.

That's what the Band Button (on the main page) is for Joe. It gives the best styles (all RealTracks, no MIDI), and they are sorted by genre and feel. It is a menu, so you don't even need to open a dialog. Should be able to get to a style in a few seconds, and there is also a menu item there to load in a song demo for the style you just loaded.





...thanks for sharing that - you can see I really haven't played with the product enough. That button has been raised to the top of my priority list : )

Sometimes the smallest bit of information makes all the difference.

...ahhh...now I see it - haven't read through the manual or tutorials for a while, and was fooled by the button icon "Sty" - thought this was to pick a style. Most other buttons have a title underneath, "Best Styles" or "Favorite Styles" would have been more intuitive for me - not that the tool tip doesn't say it clear as day.

Thanks again.

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#187786 - 01/11/13 03:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Matt Finley]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
Well, I´ve finished buying the upgrade (downloading now)...these realtracks from Rebecca sounds just too good, hehe...

Quote:

Maybe if you place specific suggestions there, I can support and contribute to the request.



Sure, I´ll do

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#187787 - 01/11/13 04:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Cerio]
MikeK Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2075
Loc: Buford, GA
Not that PG would have to do that, I would just be interested in how many BIAB users are actually out there (unless that's already been disclosed and I missed it). The number of forum members does not necessarily equal the numbers of BIAB users.

As far as age... who really cares? Those of us who are a bit more seasoned will always treasure BIAB a heck of a lot more than a "Beat maker/Producer) could ever imagine. They got their fruity software... let 'em be happy with it.

Cheers,
Mike
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Mike

My Music * PC: Avatar FX8366ice AMD FX-8350(4.0GHz) 16GB DDR3 6TB HDD+128GB SSD HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Win 10 64-Bit. AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2018

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