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#197215 - 03/06/13 03:55 AM [Off-Topic] Free web-based synthetic singer
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1781
I ran across Sinsy the other day, and thought it might be a good fit for some forum members who are unable to sing. It's a synthetic singer capable of doing a fairly good job with English.

There are a couple features of Sinsy that make it stand out from other programs. Unlike Vocaloid, it's free. Unlike Utau, it's usable without having to deal with Japanese. It takes MusicXML files as input, and pays attention to various musical markings. It has a fair bit of musical intelligence, and does a good job with putting phrases together in a very musical way.

On the downside, it's got a pretty distinct Japanese accent. It would be nice if they modeled it using a native English speaker, but can you expect for free?

I put together a demo using BiaB: Words Like Smoke

And because I can't stop leave well enough alone, here's a remix: Words Like Smoke (Mix 2)

The music (including the melody) was generated by BiaB using the MIDI PNOMOOD1 style with a couple of added RealTrack guitars, although I tweaked the register of the melody in a couple places. I exported the MIDI file from BiaB and edited the lyrics in Finale NotePad. Sinsy wasn't happy with getting multiple staffs, and I couldn't figure how to remove staffs in NotePad, so I edited it in Notion and did a bit more tweaking of the lyrics.

If BiaB exported MusicXML, it would have been a lot simpler!

The remix was done in Reaper - I started out fixing the guitar strums (they needed to be moved forward) and ended up messing around with the vocal track and Reaper's pitch correction tool. Fun stuff.

Anyway, breaths are automatically added after long phrases - a nice touch. Vibrato is added automatically on long notes, and I'm impressed how well it handled tied notes on the final cadence.

It also works with MuseScore - here's Ave Maria done in MuseScore.

Actually, with the "ze" instead of "the", Sinsy sounds a bit like Natasha Fatale.


Edited by dcuny (03/06/13 05:26 AM)

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#197216 - 03/06/13 05:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: dcuny]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3876
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
That is astonishing--and good. The expressiveness from the Schubert score is especially (ahem) noteworthy. It is unsurprising that it has a bit of an accent, given that it was taking its cues from Kanji (simplified Japanese ideograms). It is hard to tell from your short sample whether it does better with English text. Even the slightly synthetic quality, something like a cross between a human voice and a Theremin, is somewhat appealing, at least to this electronic composer. Excellent work on your part, too. Thanks for sharing.

Richard
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#197217 - 03/06/13 06:55 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Ryszard]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 12287
Loc: Australia
Hi David,

Thank you for passing on this information. I'm astounded! It makes me wonder where music will be in 5 years time!

Regards,
Noel
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#197218 - 03/06/13 06:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Noel96]
Westside Steve Offline
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Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 353
Loc: Shores of Lake Erie
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#197219 - 03/06/13 08:07 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Westside Steve]
MountainSide Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1020
Loc: Florida
Wow...that's not bad...perhaps could be better used for background vocals huh? Does it also have male vocals? Can it handle multiple vocal parts for harmony and choir?
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#197220 - 03/06/13 09:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: MountainSide]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Sounds artificial, artifacts and all that.

Bears watching, though, to see if improvements are forthcoming.


--Mac
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#197221 - 03/06/13 09:42 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Mac]
filkertom Offline
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Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 2027
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Huh. Okay, that Ave Maria was rather frickin' good.
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My Music at Bandcamp
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#197222 - 03/06/13 09:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Mac]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7616
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Mac, the Ave Maria link convinced me. Imagine composing full choral arrangements in the very near future using BIAB and nothing else. Its uncharacteristic of you to poo-poo technological advancements no matter how infantile the current state-of-the-art. Have you had your coffee yet? At least my SLP (Speech Language Pathologist) was fascinated and is sharing this link with her SLP friends and I only imagine that she has access to all the latest advancements in synthesized speech. Have a cupa and revisit the link, my friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7K0-ttUBng

It has fewer phonyms (sp?) than the sample of Beatles' Yesterday (on same page) but the advancements in technology in just three years is phenomenal.

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#197223 - 03/06/13 10:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Don Gaynor]
Ryszard Offline
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3876
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Quote:

. . . it has fewer phonyms (sp?) than the sample of Beatles' Yesterday . . .




Phonemes (said the professional linguist).

Richard
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

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#197224 - 03/06/13 12:56 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Ryszard]
PgFantastic Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2646
Loc: Kentucky
Makes me want to take singing lessons!
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#197225 - 03/06/13 01:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Ryszard]
dcuny Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1781
As Richard pointed out, a larger phoneme set would make this program phenomenal for English speakers. But it's "good enough" right now, and BIAB user can start working with this program right away.

Having MusicXML export (of the vocal track only) would be ideal, and I'm hoping MusicXML export gets added to BiaB in the near future.

In lieu of that, if you haven't got a music notation program and don't want to download any software, Noteflight is a web-based program that will import MIDI and export MusicXML. So you could get a free account, upload the MIDI into Noteflight, add lyrics, and export MusicXML into Sinsy.

Most synthetic singer programs use a piano roll sort of interface. Because Sinsy generates good performance by default from the score means that it's less cumbersome than other programs. Plus, most of this software needs additional drivers for Japanese language support, even if you're using in English.

There are a number of reasons that this software has taken off in Japan - the limited phoneme set certainly helps. Vocaloid was initially the leading software for synthetic singing, but the free Utau program has started to surpass it. An interesting feature of Utau is that users are able to create their own voice banks instead of being locked down to using commercially released voices.

Instead of just recording single phonemes, voice banks consist of recordings of consonants and vowels (CV) - "sa", "so", "see", and so on. More sophisticated voice banks have more complex combinations - VCV and CVVC. So there are very smooth transitions between phonemes.

Unfortunately, creating equivalent voice banks for English is a much larger undertaking, because there are a lot more combinations. But it's clearly doable.

In any event, it plays nice with BiaB, creates musical results and is free. That's very cool.

Don, interested in using it for any songs?
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#197226 - 03/06/13 02:37 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: dcuny]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13416
Very cool! Thanks for pointing it out David.
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Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#197227 - 03/06/13 06:51 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: PeterGannon]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3320
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
I hear voice synthesis daily listening to NOAA weather radio. An article about the evolution of the voices used is here: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/newvoice.htm
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2018 BiaB (509) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 4)
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#197228 - 03/07/13 11:45 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: Jim Fogle]
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1020
Loc: Florida
Hmmmm....apparently Yamaha is behind Vocaloid and a new English version, albeit by a Japanese vocalist, is now available: http://www.vocaloid.com/en/ and here: http://www.ssw.co.jp/en/products/vocal3/megpoid/index.html .

Wouldn't it be great if PG partnered with these guys to develop an US-based linguistic algorithm to create the ultimate Band in a Box!
_________________________
Win10x64, Intel i7 7700k, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB 2018v508, RB 2018v4, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express XT, Yamaha DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.7 SampleTank 3.7

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#197229 - 03/07/13 01:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Free web-based synthetic singer [Re: MountainSide]
Don Gaynor Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7616
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Quote:

Don, interested in using it for any songs?



David, not at the moment, I'm steeped in Songwriting Class, but afterwards, I'll prove Mac true: I'll be "full of it!"

I think we've gotten the good Doctor's attention and that's what we had hoped to accomplish. "Take it, Peter!"

I am so chuffed by all you've done in researching this subject, David. You've acted "above and beyond the call..." Thank you so sincerely.

With Dr Peter carrying the puck to the goal, I'll rest comfortably now.

@David I'll take a look at my current compositions but, unfortunately, I routinely delete my .sgu and .mgu files after rendering to .wav or .mp3. Color me stupid, but please try to stay within the lines.

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