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#371349 - 10/24/16 02:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Buford]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2059
Originally Posted By: Hawgly
Besides, I get paid pretty well for doing what I do...and who wants the competition. grin Maybe they should change the name to PG Music Authoring Software. Something a little more classy. On second though, just leave it like it is. No need to crowd the market, eh?

I agree 100%! laugh Seems like there are 4 possible outcomes from me trying to convince someone of how good BIAB is...

1) they look at the GUI and overall complexity or listen to the stock MIDI results of the starter package and decide it is lame

2) they see its power and then say I am cheating

3) they don't care either way.

4) they love it and start producing high-quality music to compete with me

None of these results help me!


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (10/24/16 02:09 PM)

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#371354 - 10/24/16 02:38 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Along this topic I recently had the opportunity and pleasure to sit down with one of my favorite on-line music educators. This guy is big on the web and you-tube and is a fantastic musician and teacher. I have followed him for years and never the mention from him of BIAB. So I took the opportunity to ask him about it. Well, I was shocked by his response. "...of course I know it, it is fantastic! I have the current version...". So I asked, how is it you have never ever mentioned it in any of your videos or lessons? His answer was simple " It is the competition and no one advertises the competition."
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#371368 - 10/24/16 04:01 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
eddie1261 Online   content
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Registered: 04/08/11
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Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

2) they see its power and then say I am cheating


When they say you are cheating, ask them how many Beach Boys they think played on Good Vibrations. And if they ever heard of The Wrecking Crew.

Wasn't The Wrecking Crew nothing more than live people doing what BIAB/RB does? Roger McGuinn says in The Wrecking Crew movie how angry the members of The Byrds were when the studio cats did the music for their albums. In the next sentence, he also reveals that when they finally DID play live, the intro to Turn Turn Turn took 77 takes.
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#371369 - 10/24/16 04:01 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 983
Loc: NYC
So jazzmandan - who is the mystery music educator ? I'd love to check out his online stuff.

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#371384 - 10/24/16 05:30 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Joe V]
MusicStudent Offline
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see PM
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#371410 - 10/25/16 05:32 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4222
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
In a way, I guess it is cheating, as The Wrecking Crew, The Swampers, dubbing vocals for actors in movies, and so on. But in another way it's just another tool to be used to make something with.

When I started doing computer backgrounds with my Atari/ST computer, other musicians told me "You are going to put musicians out of work with that." I replied, "I am going to put a musician to work with that, me."

Later on. many of those same musicians who criticized my use of the computer are buying styles from me, buying karaoke tracks on-line or full sequences from somebody else.

I suppose the first "Sideman" drum machine was the first cheat. Or perhaps the capo? But things that are called cheating one day become normal the next.

I still play live with backing tracks that I make myself, many with the help of BiaB and a couple totally BiaB. I'm still in the same duo I started with that Atari in 1985, and we're still gigging with 17 one-nighters this month.

I do 100% MIDI backing tracks and Leilani and I sing and play either guitar, synth, wind synth, sax, or flute over the top.

I prefer MIDI over RTs for live performance, because the mix needs to be different live than it does for a recording. Hotter snare drums, exaggerated horn stabs, more dynamics on the bass and most other instruments. Plus the groove should often be exaggerated. It makes it sound more live to the audience.

Whatever, it's working.

If it's cheating, so be it.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#371426 - 10/25/16 07:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Will B - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 408
Presented without comment smile smile smile

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#371428 - 10/25/16 07:37 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Will B - PG Music]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10417
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Will B - PG Music
Presented without comment smile smile smile



grin grin grin grin

I wonder if all of those folks who think that using these tools is cheating also think that using stunt men is cheating?
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#371474 - 10/25/16 11:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10037
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I was at church one morning and we were doing some upbeat music. I was using my arranger keyboard's built in styles, but also playing stuff myself on the keyboard, along with two guitarists (we didn't have a drummer or bass player at the time). Really, not much different than using a BIAB style.

After awhile, someone came up and watched for awhile at what I was doing and then he said "Hey, that's cheating. You're just pushing buttons" (of course I was playing the keys also, but whatever...)

I looked at him and said, "Ah, but I know which buttons to push! Would you like to try?" He respected and appreciated the effort after that.
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#371476 - 10/25/16 12:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16550
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
A wise variation on that old saw about the unsolvable engine problem where they finally call in the expert. He makes one tap of the hammer which fixes it and presents his bill for $10,000. They complain, "All you did is one little tap of the hammer!" and he says, "Yes, but I knew where to tap".

Great answer John.
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#371483 - 10/25/16 12:38 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
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Loc: Florida
I've had guys walk up and tell me we're cheating. That's why I carry a pistol. grin
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#371500 - 10/25/16 01:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Tacoma290 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 7
Not everyone is looking at this right. You don't have to sell it. Keep doing what you are doing on this forum.
I had BIAB about 8 years ago, and the midi sound drove me away... rather quickly. Two weeks ago I wanted to check it out again. The newer YouTube samples, and the fact that this is an active forum is all it took for me. This software with realband is the future.
Cheating? So is cruise control and that tool has saved me a fortune in tickets.

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#371501 - 10/25/16 01:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Tacoma290 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 7
As far as changing the interface, I don't think PG has to be as drastic as some of the above posts suggest. Afterall, doesn't a DAW have a crazy amount of buttons? I simply don't see this software as being for a casual user, so not much point in making things overly clean.

The real change that PG needs to make is get rid of the ComicSans like font for chords. Hate it. I suspect that font alone sends so many (below age 45) away. The good news is that a guy from Germany appears to be helping resolve that.

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#371507 - 10/25/16 01:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16550
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, we look forward to that new font. But, just checking, do you know that BIAB allows you several options in the choice of fonts, particularly as of version 2016?

Comic Sans is so interesting in how polarizing it is! I've even seen it on resumes (not what I would have recommended).
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BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#371512 - 10/25/16 02:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why do I have so much trouble selling people on BIAB? [Re: Ryszard]
Tacoma290 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 7
Hi Matt, thanks for making sure; Yes I did find it eventually. But it was more than one click away. But boy was I motivated to change it.
Even I am surprised at how strongly I feel about disliking the font. I suspect that most here are used to it, but the ComicSans font is the subject of so much scorn. Google 'ComicSans Failblog'
That issue aside, it is a great product, and you guys with history add a lot to it.

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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Features a Cleaned-up BB Folder

If you've used previous versions of Band-in-a-Box®, you may have noticed a lot of different files and folders within the "BB" folder for the program - after years and years of development there are up to 10,000 files for an UltraPAK! With Version 2018, we've cleaned it up - but you're not losing anything - the cleanup normally happens automatically during installation, but you can run it manually if you'd like - just select the main menu Help | Utilities | Run Cleanup routine...

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Beginners Forum - Exporting from Band-in-a-Box® to a .MID File

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Band-in-a-Box® 2018 For Windows Build 509 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download this free patch update at http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#509

Summary of changes:
Added: The drop station has MP3 and WMAL (lossless WMA) quadrants added.
Fixed: "Drag Audio as MP3" setting in the Plugin settings did not work when dragging a file to Windows Explorer.
Fixed: "Pause Play until MIDI or key received" setting did not work if using WAS audio drivers.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box Server was unable to communicate with BB2018.
Fixed: Choosing a drum kit file in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog would fail with error "Unable to install patch/drum map for...".
Fixed: Disabling "Include 2 bar lead-in" setting in the Render Song to Audio File dialog would cause videos to be out of sync.
Fixed: It was not possible to type the # sharp character into the chord sheet if using a French keyboard.
Fixed: Some Amplitube TGS files and styles were missing in certain installations.
Fixed: Song would stop playing at bar 8 after rendering to an audio file.
Fixed: The Practice Window songs would not load with error "This directory does not exist...".
Fixed: The Tip of the Day dialog was not displaying any tips.
Fixed: The Tuner, MIDI Monitor, and Drum Kit window were always displaying in English instead of the user's language.

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Xtra Styles PAKs special pricing: http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

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